Absolutely zero consensus because this is a thread necro once again.
Best Social Policies for a Domination victory
- Thread starter MrDerpington
- Start date
Absolutely zero consensus because this is a thread necro once again.
Tab's quote was from 2012 as this was necro'd to see what the ideas are for BNW. He might not do this anymore.
I'd say it depends on when you want to go full on warring;
If you want to war in the midgame t100-end I'd say Full Liberty, Patronage to Consulates, Rationalism starting with Secularism and then right side of Rationalism until Autocracy.
If you want to Blitzkreig in the late game Tradition, 3 points in Commerce to get discount on gold purchases and also to build Big Ben, Rationalism starting with Secularism adn then right side until Autocracy opens
If you want to war in the midgame t100-end I'd say Full Liberty, Patronage to Consulates, Rationalism starting with Secularism and then right side of Rationalism until Autocracy.
If you want to Blitzkreig in the late game Tradition, 3 points in Commerce to get discount on gold purchases and also to build Big Ben, Rationalism starting with Secularism adn then right side until Autocracy opens
Acken
Deity
Honor would be a lot better if it wasn't so melee based. (Or if melee units were more interesting, pre industrial you go with bows and after that with artillery/bomber... melee never shines in the current game :/).
On the other hand its not like its so bad that you can't win with it but its not for min-maxer.
On the other hand its not like its so bad that you can't win with it but its not for min-maxer.
Elz Majesto
Warlord
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BTW, if you get to the late game with Autocracy, Lightening Warfare applies to GDRs as well. That was one of my concerns before I took it. (I love late game victories with massive GDRs n XCOM squads n Stealthies to snipe out caps an cities and take em with the XCom dudes.)
Personal experience tho...if you like late game, Order with Kremlin will help you steam roll the opposition quicker. That +50% production on Armor units is no joke. Prora should of offered something similar in my opinion.
Personal experience tho...if you like late game, Order with Kremlin will help you steam roll the opposition quicker. That +50% production on Armor units is no joke. Prora should of offered something similar in my opinion.
I think approx. 15 policies is about what you can expect to get in a standard-sized/speed domination game. From your list, which was close to what I did, you still have 4 policies to chose from. I went ahead and finished left-side Honor and got a couple in Commerce before I won.
JohnnyKing
Chieftain
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For a domination, I played on Immortal and got Honor, Tradition, Liberty and as an ideology I got Order. Cheers.
Bulldog Bats
King
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Right side of commerce for happiness.
VicRatlhead5199
King
Early war, Tradition & Honor hybrid then a couple in patronage, rationalism or commerce depending on your needs. Tradition for money and growth and honor is good for war before gunpowder. Patronage will help you defend yourself in the WC, people won't like you. Commerce helps pay for troops. Rationalism is good if you're not doing well in science without it, it's almost a necessity on higher diffs if you've dipped into the bottom of the tree too much.
Early warmongers should finish up with Order. You'll have a massive empire by the time ideologies hit and are probably already more than a match for any civ on the map making Autocracy's buffs superfluous and unnecessary. Order has more civil benefits that help maintain the lead.
Later warmongers (waiting for dynamite or navigation to start) should go Liberty, Commerce, a couple points in rationalism. Liberty helps you peacefully expand quicker and you'll be happier in the long run with the fast workers and representation. Commerce to help pay for the troops and courthouses plus protectionism is awesome for warmongers. Rationalism is kind of a no brainer.
Late warmongers benefit more from Autocracy since they'll meet full power civs and maybe even some runaways to beat. The Autocracy policies are a lot better for that kind of war plus Autocracy has more overall happiness and that is really needed since you will be on a time crunch and don't want to stop to deal with happiness issues.
Early warmongers should finish up with Order. You'll have a massive empire by the time ideologies hit and are probably already more than a match for any civ on the map making Autocracy's buffs superfluous and unnecessary. Order has more civil benefits that help maintain the lead.
Later warmongers (waiting for dynamite or navigation to start) should go Liberty, Commerce, a couple points in rationalism. Liberty helps you peacefully expand quicker and you'll be happier in the long run with the fast workers and representation. Commerce to help pay for the troops and courthouses plus protectionism is awesome for warmongers. Rationalism is kind of a no brainer.
Late warmongers benefit more from Autocracy since they'll meet full power civs and maybe even some runaways to beat. The Autocracy policies are a lot better for that kind of war plus Autocracy has more overall happiness and that is really needed since you will be on a time crunch and don't want to stop to deal with happiness issues.
I think the Honner finisher is a bit underestimated. It of course really depends on the map size.
In my last Russian game with 12 civs, Honnor's finisher was the only reason I could steal steamroll with a constant -200 deficit. Each modern unit is 60 gold, and you are killing at least 3 or 4 per turn with multiple wars going on.
I have mixed feelings about Autocraty policy;
pro huge happiness tenets, the -30% maintenance cost is godlike, and the reduced purchase price is a nice combo with big ben/right commerce. Proro is pretty good wonder.
cons doesn't have so much about warfare. The 50 turn boost is really good, but I more than often consum all this turns, which is sad. Wounded units making more dmg is okish. I don't think it's working with planes somehow, can't remember seing this buff when I attacked a city/unit with a dmged unit. The 20% hammers & 15xp is quite decent I reckon.
Justice1337
Sofa King
Opening Trad first leaves a lot of Purples on the table mid-game while helping you little early, and Honor is still unnecessary/inferior by design.
If we're talking earliest win turn, then Left Side Liberty > it doesn't matter. Capital BO Scout > Monument > Archer/UU till 4-5 Pop > Settler > Settler > Settler until there are no more unclaimed luxuries near you. Second city BO Monument > Archer, all other cities Archer first. Buy Order: Worker > save for CB upgrades, sometimes buy a Caravan if you're close to multiple civs. Get 6-8 Archers by Turn 50'ish, then upgrade to CB's. Sell luxuries aggressively.
Whatever you do after Left Side Liberty, your only needs are Happiness and Science for the rest of the game. That probably has you finishing Liberty for the Worker to improve Luxuries, then Meritocracy for Happy. The closer is a Scientist for either an Academy or Bulbing Machinery if you're close enough to win with it. Also, Representation does help a lot w/ later era policies, which are clearly better than early era ones.
The best mid era policy for Domination imo is Mercantilism in Commerce. Not so much for buying units, although that helps, but the extra Beaker from Gold buildings is nice because you want as much Science that's not related to Population as you can get. You'll have Markets/Banks quite early anyway. If you have enough Gold though, Patronage to Scholasticism can be better. I'd say 4 CS allies is about the tipping point where I go Patronage instead. Also in certain circumstances where a conquered neighbor's religion claimed Pagodas, going the first 3-4 in Piety can be worth it.
On Ideologies, I've come around recently to the idea that Autocracy is a great track. Level 1 should be Fortified Borders > Industrial Espionage > United Front/Mobilization. Level 2: Militarism > Police State. Third Alternative is very strong though if you still have trading partners left. Total War and Nationalism are also better than any policy outside your Ideology too, and if you plan on getting 3 level 2's, you get either of those first before Police State. That's why you load up here instead of early eras. Level 3 is Gunboat Diplomacy every single time. A lot of the time your army will be gaining CS Influence from the other end of the Continent. The common theme here is that bonuses to attacking are bad. Same goes for Honor as it does here. If you use your units well, combat strength is not something worth wasting any Purples on. But the important thing is the Happy. Just put all cities on the Walls/Barracks lines of buildings, even though you don't need those buildings themselves. The Barracks line doubles as the Colosseum/Zoo line of buildings. If you're doing fine on Happy, keep building those buildings anyway and just sell your luxuries to that last AI on good terms.
Cromagnus
Deity
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Necro thread indeed. Tradition opener -> Liberty isn't bad. There are times I've wished I'd done it because of the sheer amount of tiles I had to buy. But I generally prefer full Liberty followed by Commerce for pangaea-style maps or Exploration for sea maps.
Domination (IMHO) is about production, and the free GP gives an extra boost to tech that makes any pre-Industrial warfare more effective. It's virtually impossible to hit Machinery or Chivalry as early with Tradition as you can with Liberty, because you can build NC *AND* bulb. This little boost early makes a huge difference in terms of finishing your domination run before your attack force loses ground.
And, regarding social policies, Deity is the only difficulty level where any of this matters. On Immortal or below, you could pick any set of policies and win. But even on those lower levels, full Liberty is more effective than Honor or Tradition for fast *early* Domination.
If you're starting your domination run with late-game tech, then you're really asking "What are the best policies for Science Victory?" so this is all moot.
The only question mark IMHO is with regards to Artillery. There is a reasonable argument to be made that Tradition starts are comparable to Liberty for Artillery Domination, because the growth bonuses of Tradition really kick in after t100 and start to diminish the tech/production advantage of Liberty. But, as long as the Pyramids and pillage/heal/repair still works, full Liberty > all. Period.
After Mercantilism, it really depends. Autocracy is just flat out better. Reducing the cost of buying units is awesome, extra happiness from courthouses is better than free courthouses, especially given that Order's free courthouses are only free if you *immediately annex*, and doing so is *not* advantageous. That city is reducing the rate of SP gain without contributing anything, you can't rush-buy, etc. Much better to not annex until later.
Also, Autocracy improves tech theft, which is very useful for a stalled early rush where you're forced to catch up in tech.
So, if you're doing Artillery or later Domination, Liberty->Mercantilism->Mobilization->more autocracy. (Industrial Espionage before Mobilization if you're force to catch up in tech)
For naval warfare, there's a few ways to go. For early naval warfare, I like Exploration better. For later warfare (Battleships) I'd go for Mercantilism. Rush-buying your battleships is way cheaper than building them if you do so after you've got Mercantilism, Mobilization and Big Ben. But Exploration is still a valid option. The happiness, production and extra moves are the best policies for naval domination, period.
Honor is just inferior, as much as I wish it weren't. But given the last patch, the devs apparently think extra great generals was the answer... proving they know nothing about their own game.
Domination (IMHO) is about production, and the free GP gives an extra boost to tech that makes any pre-Industrial warfare more effective. It's virtually impossible to hit Machinery or Chivalry as early with Tradition as you can with Liberty, because you can build NC *AND* bulb. This little boost early makes a huge difference in terms of finishing your domination run before your attack force loses ground.
And, regarding social policies, Deity is the only difficulty level where any of this matters. On Immortal or below, you could pick any set of policies and win. But even on those lower levels, full Liberty is more effective than Honor or Tradition for fast *early* Domination.
If you're starting your domination run with late-game tech, then you're really asking "What are the best policies for Science Victory?" so this is all moot.
The only question mark IMHO is with regards to Artillery. There is a reasonable argument to be made that Tradition starts are comparable to Liberty for Artillery Domination, because the growth bonuses of Tradition really kick in after t100 and start to diminish the tech/production advantage of Liberty. But, as long as the Pyramids and pillage/heal/repair still works, full Liberty > all. Period.
After Mercantilism, it really depends. Autocracy is just flat out better. Reducing the cost of buying units is awesome, extra happiness from courthouses is better than free courthouses, especially given that Order's free courthouses are only free if you *immediately annex*, and doing so is *not* advantageous. That city is reducing the rate of SP gain without contributing anything, you can't rush-buy, etc. Much better to not annex until later.
Also, Autocracy improves tech theft, which is very useful for a stalled early rush where you're forced to catch up in tech.
So, if you're doing Artillery or later Domination, Liberty->Mercantilism->Mobilization->more autocracy. (Industrial Espionage before Mobilization if you're force to catch up in tech)
For naval warfare, there's a few ways to go. For early naval warfare, I like Exploration better. For later warfare (Battleships) I'd go for Mercantilism. Rush-buying your battleships is way cheaper than building them if you do so after you've got Mercantilism, Mobilization and Big Ben. But Exploration is still a valid option. The happiness, production and extra moves are the best policies for naval domination, period.
Honor is just inferior, as much as I wish it weren't. But given the last patch, the devs apparently think extra great generals was the answer... proving they know nothing about their own game.
I agree that Honor is bad even for domination. Would much rather do Liberty for the fast start. Honor makes me sad, even when I've done an Honor opening for the challenge, it hasn't even managed to be a fun SP tree. Except perhaps for the xp boost.
Pillage-repair is the one legal game mechanic I'm not willing to exploit, however. I'll happily steal 4 workers from a CS, abuse gpt before declaring war, or sell a conquered city for ridiculous amounts of gold... all arguably exploitative tactics. But pillage-repair just seems like something so obviously silly that never should have been possible if the devs would even care the least bit about game balance (it seems they don't). So I pretend it's not possible.
What about SP's for frigate domination on a water map? Been playing Small Continents maps sometimes and they definitely favour naval domination. The answer would seem to be Liberty -> Exploration, but Small Continents is often so tight with space that it can be hard to find reasonable spots for more than 3-5 cities; which would kind of favor Tradition. Or would you say that the early advantage of Liberty is that much more stronger for getting Navigation faster, even if you only settle 3 cities?
Pillage-repair is the one legal game mechanic I'm not willing to exploit, however. I'll happily steal 4 workers from a CS, abuse gpt before declaring war, or sell a conquered city for ridiculous amounts of gold... all arguably exploitative tactics. But pillage-repair just seems like something so obviously silly that never should have been possible if the devs would even care the least bit about game balance (it seems they don't). So I pretend it's not possible.
What about SP's for frigate domination on a water map? Been playing Small Continents maps sometimes and they definitely favour naval domination. The answer would seem to be Liberty -> Exploration, but Small Continents is often so tight with space that it can be hard to find reasonable spots for more than 3-5 cities; which would kind of favor Tradition. Or would you say that the early advantage of Liberty is that much more stronger for getting Navigation faster, even if you only settle 3 cities?
Cromagnus
Deity
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The way I do continents Domination is to take over my continent while teching Navigation, so I end up with more than enough coastal cities without needing to build many of my own. 2 or 3 is definitely enough.
You can take over your own continent with CBs/XBs or CBs/Galleas. If you go the galleas route, you need to push hard for Compass to get it ASAP. This is in my opinion a less viable strategy than CB rush on continents. On archipelago or other island-style maps, it's very effective.
