best social policies for domination victory?

[Dushku]

Found a thread on this with a LOT of detailed info. However, it was out of date. Thanks to xpacs, patches, etc, I'm not sure how the info would be shifted to match today's game. I've got a decent grasp of peaceful play now though and would like to start studying domination. Would you lot be so kind as to lend your wisdom? Particularly with regards to social policies, but also tech approach and game goals (like early NC).

Thank you for your time!

 

[BruinBound]

To those looking to respond, I think it would be helpful to go through how terrain/neighbors/expected start of war time changes ideal policies. For instance, tradition if you are starting at bombers vs a CB rush with liberty (if this is indeed the case).

Also, how do you determine which window will be ideal? CBs or XBs or Artys etc.

I am looking forward to learn from this thread also

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[killmeplease]

commerce+autocracy can be good for rushbuying an armada of bombers

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

It's impossible to say exactly what the best policies would be 100% of the time, as terrain/AIs/Civs/difficulty etc. vary considerably. That said, I go by the following general rules for a pure Domination victory on deity:

Most importantly:
- Will I have the happiness?
- Will I experience a severe tech deficit?
The earlier you war, the worse these factors are.

When possible, build a road to your first AI. Once you've teched to your principal military unit (comp, xbow, cannon, arti...), you should be fighting asap to give yourself the maximum time window possible. The earlier the better, as units have a maximum shelf life; xbows, for example, are only good until cav/high defence cities and a road could give them 5 extra turns of usefulness.
Roads to 2nd/3rd AIs come with practice once you get better at planning assaults well in advance.

Archer rush. Liberty? I've never done this successfully on deity, though on immortal and lower it's fine. On deity I find the tech deficit to be too large, and AIs have swordsmen too soon. Perhaps only Babylon could, though we should probably avoid specific Civs in this thread.

Liberty for a Composite rush. The free settler is invaluable since you'll be building lots of archers out of your cap. The first AI should be nice and close since you're unlikely to have a road to them. Low production starts shouldn't normally war early on, but liberty makes it more feasible. I find it hard to both build the NC in good time and comp rush by turn 50-60, so the tech deficit is normally pretty bad unless you have a really strong start.

I've run out of time and have to go to work now, I'll expand on my post/discuss later era rushes tonight.

 

[stormtrooper412]

The only way I can get semi consistent results in early rushes is 3 city Liberty CB swarm. That generally follows Liberty into Commerce with a dip into Secularism for a possible faster Dynamite. The England DCL was perhaps my finest domination moment, that I could have finished evn 10-15 turns earlier with a better timed Dynamite. In that game, I went full Liberty, Commerce until Renaissance, Secularism and then back to Commerce to try and push some more gold into my effort.

Past that point, I don't really know, but Clausewitz's legacy is very good and gives you enough time to clear out the map, because large conquest campaigns generally only need a solid bank of happiness in order to keep going

 

[Kriogen]

Happy faces and gold, not behind in science.

I tried many combos and for me it's:
- Tradition or Liberty or Honor(*)
- Commerce plus splash in Ratio
- any ideology

(*) Honor is better on Deity then on Prince. It's about finisher. Deity AI has more units, so thats lots of gold.

The easiest for me is Tradition:
- Full Tradition,
- build 3-4 strong core cities
- full Commerce, splash in Ratio
- rush/oxford Dynamite ... pwn everything that moves.
- while doing this, research Anti Air or you'll get stuck at one point
- ideology: Autocracy or Freedom
- Great Persons: in general 'bulb' to get key tech faster, extend golden age, get extra social policy, etc ...

Note: any ideology will do. I usualy go Auto or Freedom as AI usualy goes Order. I pick what AI didn't so I get more freebies and I have 100% chance to get ideology related World Wonder. Also Auto/Freedom because Kremlin kinda sucks compared to Statue/Prora.

 

[claudiupb]

Depending on when you want to start dominating there is value in Tradition, Liberty and Honor.


For early rushes (CA rush and CB rush) liberty bonuses are the best, since they give one extra hammer, and one extra city, very important and help raise an army pretty fast. After that, you get the worker speed which helps, and the happiness from city connections which is a nice addition since you want to build roads for troop movement even if they aren't worth it financially, you get a benefit out of them. The GP at the end helps you compensate for lack/delay of infrastructure (for example you get a GE to rush Machu Picchu to help with gold, or get a GS to plant an academy to increase your science, etc).

If you want to start warring at Machinery, or even later (at Dynamite for example), Tradition will let you grow cities and reach those key techs faster. The extra gold and reduced maintenance for units will let you pre-build your army and upgrade it the turn you have the required tech. This greatly widens the window of opportunity for warring with that unit.

Honors bonuses are a little bit tricky. It takes longer to gain advantage over Tradition or Liberty, because you don't have any development bonuses, so it's harder to pull of a rush with CB (compared to liberty) and also you will be reaching key techs later (compared to tradition). You need to hard build a couple of settlers and your cities will not have many bonuses (faster barracks and 2 culture with a garrison). The finisher is great especially on higher difficulties, when all those extra hammers for the AI become gold in your treasury. For me honor is best when the warring will take a lot of time, and you can't take over the world with XBs (for example in a continents map). I mostly start with honor if the civ has a synergy with this tree (Zulu, Mongols). Having extra XP is good, and you also upgrade units for less gold. With good terrain you can take a capital or even two with CBs while teching machinery, and then upgrade those units to XBs and continue the warmongering.

As a second tree you could pick Commerce or even Honor if you have started with something else. If your game takes long enough, past modern era, I think investing at least 2 policies in Rationalism is best, so as soon as you hit renaissance go for Secularism and then continue your secondary tree.

For ideology, use what is best at the moment. If you don't to a XCOM rush or other late game domination strategies, the game should be almost over by the time ideology comes into play.

 

[reddishrecue]

Domination victory can be achieved well with honor and its ease of allowing your units to gain their promotions a lot faster. Cb rushes and xbow rushes both become really powerful in the classical medieval era when the units are promoted to range and logistics. Once these promotions are reached, be careful with the units that have them by withdrawing them when needed away from any enemy troops that almost succeed in killing them.

The promotions that one gets from honor is a lot faster with the military tradition social policy that somehow increases unit promotion time. The other social policies maybe could do that also but it would take a really long time and a larger butchery. With two or 3 xbows Or cbs with the range promotion at least attacking a city from faraway won't let the city attack while having the units backed up with other low ranking cbs Or xbs, one can make sure that the rangers survive.
A common exception is having forests Or jungle tiles that block the cb Or xbow range where one sends one's workers in to chop off the jungles to allow the units to see. Keeping your ranged units on hills could also help you get some pretty good line of sight. Naval ships can also benefit from military tradition since they also can get range quicker.
Technology and ideology shouldn't be something to worry about as long as you get the great works built sooner and eventually get them to add up. Protectionism will also help get you that much needed happiness to support any ideological suffering.

 

[joncnunn]

For domination, just like every other victory condition, the very best policy is Rationalism.
In this case because you'll reach the tech providing the key military units faster.

Also like every other victory condition, only full Tradition and full Liberty are in the running if what you are after is fastest turn for victory. (Both Tradition & Liberty provide things that in a major way moves up time to victory. Not so much for Honor.)

Monarchy's 50% happiness reduction in the capital combined when combined the other Tradition policy that makes the 10th citizen in a given city free will drawf the liberty bonuses, and so this would mean full Tradition.
That is unless you are razing every single AI city and refounding them in their correct locations one or two hexes away from where the AI did, in which case you'll need Liberty's settler production bonus more.

There are several popular filler policies for Domination following completion of your first tree while being allowed into Rationalism, but as a side note if you started the conquest early, going domination you are less likely than other victory conditions to be "forced" into taking a filler policy as the cultural buildings will be lower priority.

 

[reddishrecue]

For domination, just like every other victory condition, the very best policy is Rationalism.
In this case because you'll reach the tech providing the key military units faster.

Also like every other victory condition, only full Tradition and full Liberty are in the running if what you are after is fastest turn for victory. (Both Tradition & Liberty provide things that in a major way moves up time to victory. Not so much for Honor.)

Monarchy's 50% happiness reduction in the capital combined when combined the other Tradition policy that makes the 10th citizen in a given city free will drawf the liberty bonuses, and so this would mean full Tradition.
That is unless you are razing every single AI city and refounding them in their correct locations one or two hexes away from where the AI did, in which case you'll need Liberty's settler production bonus more.

There are several popular filler policies for Domination following completion of your first tree while being allowed into Rationalism, but as a side note if you started the conquest early, going domination you are less likely than other victory conditions to be "forced" into taking a filler policy as the cultural buildings will be lower priority.

I've been able to do that more effectively in multiplayer but not that well in single player Deity at least.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

Continuing where I left off...

I like honour for crossbow rushes; when well-promoted and when upgraded they become extremely effective killers. Logistics/range xbows can even deal with rifles if shooting onto the right terrain and with adequate blocker units. The earlier the better for such promotions; these first xbows (if they dont die) will be your core unit-killing units. They should be so effective that you'll need a comparatively smaller army, meaning more time for late-game infrastructure like happiness buildings.
Machinery rushing with 6+ xbows by turn 110 is hard for most deity AIs to counter, and you won't see Tradition's growth bonuses early enough to get it much faster. Liberty may if you GE the NC.
The AI doesn't have to be close from xbows onwards because you have time to build a road to them.
Cheap barracks and cheap upgrades from 15xp Composites are a must.
This explanation of course needs beelined Machinery.

Tradition or honour can work for arti rushes. With Honour, good lands with good growth and production can get artis by turn 170. Tradition will, as joncnunn explained, get there sooner. It depends if you prefer unit quality (honour) over quantity (tradition), as you should require less units if they're better promoted.
I personally prefer honour because I like charge-promotions on cav and logistics artis asap, but Tradition will often get faster victory times.

Any rush after artis should be tradition. Growth = science = earlier planes/tanks/rocket artis/xcoms. Promotion-wise you can quite easily get 60xp units directly from cities, so honour isn't necessary.

TL;DR (in my opinion)

Archer - liberty
Composite - liberty
Crossbow - honour
Cannon/Arti - honour/tradition
Later rushes - tradition

Commerce vs. rationalism analysis would be a useful debate.

 

[GKShaman]

Notes: For Deity Standard. Commerce and Exploration could be interchangeable based on Map Type.

FOR EARLY RUSH( T45 - T125)

Liberty + Honor

Reasons:

Hammers, Fast Roads and Improvements, More Cities.

FOR MID GAME RUSH (T150-T225)

Tradition, Honor, Commerce, (Maybe Adopt Rationalism).

Reasons:

Enough Happiness and Gold stored up. Some degree of tech superiority. Cheaper roads. Liberty could also work here, but Tradition is just better for gold, happiness, and population for specialists.

FOR LATE GAME RUSH (T250-315)

Tradition, Dip into some Honor, Commerce, Rationalism, and Freedom or Order(I'm sure Autocracy works here, but I just haven't used it much).

Reasons:

Well Built Empire with enough pop, specialists, gold, happiness. Ideology also gives friends and reasons to war. Easy to accumulate culture to go down Honor. Enough Production from Aristocracy to build some free policy wonders.

 

[lindsay40k]

Open Tradition, fill left side of Honor, find a City State whipping boy, steal their luxury with a citadel and farm XP until I've got ranged logistics x5. Start early and upgrade, you'll soon have the city on 0HP and not even yielding 10XP per turn. Don't rush for cheap upgrades policies, though - you'll get the money from loot and pillage. CBs punch way over their weight, XBs are great but no need to beeline; fill Tradition and, if I'm not on Pangaea, jump into Patronage and crack on with Astronomy.

Build a max of one Settler, so forget Liberty; if you've moved at the start to settle a coastal mountainside river hill near your CS victim, don't even bother. Get NC ASAP, maybe boosting with Tradition, once the wars begin you'll be constantly burning cities and selling their buildings so NWs will take ages. Burn everything that's not a capital. Even if it's got Petra. Seriously. Even with CM and GGs flying out to grab extra luxes, happiness is going to be the main limit, so prioritise policies that help with that.

Don't worry too much about trade routes. There'll be too much open space for you to win whack-a-mole with barbarians, and a few captured workers can just keep repairing improvements around a city you razed to support your army upkeep in pillage cycles. If you've got decent Patronage, a caravan's worth burning for an Ally with luxes or UU.

If it goes to the late game, fill out Honor over opening Rationalism; easily staying happy is better than a research boost when you're not unhappy. Once ideology is available, get stuck in. Tend to prefer Order - Socialist Realism feels better than Fortified Borders, and boosts to hammers, beakers & GP production are more useful than military bonuses when you're already farming promotions.

If I've got the choice, try to capture a high faith (Stonehenge, Festivals, Stone Circles) capital for founding a religion, but don't bother with Piety. Pagodas aren't worth the hassle of annexing cities. Exception: getting Interfaith Dialogue, a good shot at Djenne, and opportunity for a missionary > holy city production line. But Papal Primacy is probably best - with Holy Warriors or Religious Community to make your hammers go farther. Pilgrimage is pretty cool when you've got a continent to yourself full of city states to convert.

 

[Acken]

I've gotten pretty similar result with liberty and tradition in the past for industrial/modern domination. The first one is better in production while the second is faster to the techs.
For secondary policies getting Honor or Commerce are usually good options. I still like getting a quick secularism for this.

For CB/XB pangea domination I usually preffer Liberty into Honor.

 

[Dushku]

Thanks for all the feedback! I have much to learn. Please keep them coming. I think it's an exciting proposition to dabble in domination given how many viable approaches there are

I'm already finding that waiting to dominate until after the AI has connected their city with roads makes things a lot easier.

 

[CraigMak]

I'd say liberty into commerce for an all out war game. If you don't plan to attack until artillery or later then I'd go for 4 city tradition because that will hit dynamite much earlier than liberty.

 

[reddishrecue]

If you could steal workers and build some yourself with honor, you could have enough of them to work the land you own. When you start expanding to the land your units captured, then your workers can continue to work the new land whether it is connecting trade routes or fixing plundered improvements.

 

[CraigMak]

If you could steal workers and build some yourself with honor, you could have enough of them to work the land you own. When you start expanding to the land your units captured, then your workers can continue to work the new land whether it is connecting trade routes or fixing plundered improvements.

What is the point of this drivel? Do you just randomly mash your keyboard and call it a post?

The title clearly states that he's asking about social policies and you're talking about workers.

 

[Matthew.]

I hate Honor. Way too sluggish. Yes, it scales better on higher difficulties where you put enemy units through a meat grinder to turn them into gold, but it is still too slow. Tradition is slow, too, but it more than makes up for it by getting a crap ton of free buildings, unit maintenance, and gold, along with bypassing the happiness mechanics in capital. Honor gets... 50% more unit xp. That is it. The only time I'd ever consider going Honor is if I was trying to exploit higher promotions, but even then you can just fill out the left side since you usually have a couple policies to burn between Rationalism anyway.

Liberty or Tradition. Secularism. After that it doesn't really matter. I usually just use the rest of my policies on happiness for more of a buffer. If the game is going long-term I finish Rationalism for Free Thought (usually have a lot of TP's by this time) and to rush-purchase GS's with whatever faith I saved up.

 

[reddishrecue]

What is the point of this drivel? Do you just randomly mash your keyboard and call it a post?

The title clearly states that he's asking about social policies and you're talking about workers.

What I'm saying is that you don't need that much worker bonus from liberty since your workers get put to sleep long after they're done with their work particularly with pyramids.