Up till now, I haven't bothered with binary research, since I found it a bit fiddly. However, I've just upgraded to the latest BUG which has buttons making it a lot easier. I've been using it in my current game. But I seem to remember reading that with the latest BTS release, the benefit of binary researh is negligable. What's the current community view?
Binary research (or not?)
- Thread starter RJM
- Start date
Binary Research adds, on average, 0.5
and 0.5
per turn. By itself, this makes it worth pursuing early in the game when you're only earning 10-20 commerce. By the time you've got 3+ cities, the small rounding errors are no longer worth worrying about unless you're obsessing about optimizing your game. At that point it's the other impacts of binary research that matter.
1. Finish more improvements before turning on research. If you're building universities and Oxford, binary research can let you get the extra 25-125% boost to science for the entire tech instead of only part of it. On the flip side, if you're busy building Banks and Wall Street you don't want binary research because it means you don't get as much wealth as you could.
2. Delay tech decisions. If you're considering trying for a tech which is only worthwhile if you get there first, or trying for techs for trading purposes, you can delay starting until you see what techs the AIs are getting. A big benefit in some situations; totally irrelevant in others.
3. Demands from the AI. A player who saves up to binary-research Liberalism may get a demand from an AI for thousands of gold, forcing him to either take a huge delay in research or take a diplo. hit and risk a war. Before Currency this isn't an issue.
Generally, there's no downside to binary research before Currency except the time it takes. After that, it's situational. I'm generally in binary research unless I already know I can get a monopoly on the tech I'm going for, and didn't just get Education.
and 0.5 per turn. By itself, this makes it worth pursuing early in the game when you're only earning 10-20 commerce. By the time you've got 3+ cities, the small rounding errors are no longer worth worrying about unless you're obsessing about optimizing your game. At that point it's the other impacts of binary research that matter.1. Finish more improvements before turning on research. If you're building universities and Oxford, binary research can let you get the extra 25-125% boost to science for the entire tech instead of only part of it. On the flip side, if you're busy building Banks and Wall Street you don't want binary research because it means you don't get as much wealth as you could.
2. Delay tech decisions. If you're considering trying for a tech which is only worthwhile if you get there first, or trying for techs for trading purposes, you can delay starting until you see what techs the AIs are getting. A big benefit in some situations; totally irrelevant in others.
3. Demands from the AI. A player who saves up to binary-research Liberalism may get a demand from an AI for thousands of gold, forcing him to either take a huge delay in research or take a diplo. hit and risk a war. Before Currency this isn't an issue.
Generally, there's no downside to binary research before Currency except the time it takes. After that, it's situational. I'm generally in binary research unless I already know I can get a monopoly on the tech I'm going for, and didn't just get Education.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
There are 2 more reasons to use it:
1. In the time you wait to get the money for the tech, there may be few other nations that acquire the tech and thus give you bonus teching it. Also it may turns out that you have and older tech/s to trade with the AIs, but they dont have new tech to trade with you, so instead of researching the tech you wanted to research, it may turns out that you can trade for it if you wait a bit and then 100% tech the next tech and have lead/monopoly.
2. When you save money, you will have more turns in which you actually have cash - it may be an event that requires gold to save you damage, or it may be surprising DoW from someone and having those money at hand can help you bribe someone to fight your enemy or/and to use those money for immediate upgrades and be able to defend successfully. So, those money will be something like strategic reserve for you.
1. In the time you wait to get the money for the tech, there may be few other nations that acquire the tech and thus give you bonus teching it. Also it may turns out that you have and older tech/s to trade with the AIs, but they dont have new tech to trade with you, so instead of researching the tech you wanted to research, it may turns out that you can trade for it if you wait a bit and then 100% tech the next tech and have lead/monopoly.
2. When you save money, you will have more turns in which you actually have cash - it may be an event that requires gold to save you damage, or it may be surprising DoW from someone and having those money at hand can help you bribe someone to fight your enemy or/and to use those money for immediate upgrades and be able to defend successfully. So, those money will be something like strategic reserve for you.
Usually it works quite well at least for me, or I did adapted my playstile to using binary research - when I get Alphabet and I am building libraries, I collect money, when the libraries are up, I start researching towards currency. Currency gives marketplaces, so by the time my cash is depleted, I have whipped/chopped marketplaces and switch to 100% money slider. Same with /universities/Oxford and banks/Wall Street.
This can be alleviated if you switch between research and saving up money often, i.e. 0% research a few turns, then 100% research a few turns, then 0% researc a few turns, then 100% research a few turns etc. This way you won't build up that much gold and giving it all away won't be that painful.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I don't see much of issue in giving it to a AI cash demand ... atleast compared with giving in to a equivalent tech demand 
If you keep your money stash only big enough for getting the next tech @ 100% research, giving in to a cash demand is always less hurtful than giving in to a tech demand 
Not that i'm advocating to cede to the AI ... just putting things in perspective
If you keep your money stash only big enough for getting the next tech @ 100% research, giving in to a cash demand is always less hurtful than giving in to a tech demand Not that i'm advocating to cede to the AI ... just putting things in perspective
admtanaka
Warlord
As a rather lazy player, I rarely bother with binary. Even I though turn off research while building a library in my capital so I can run 100% for a while thereafter.
GenerallyGreat
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 359
Sitting at 0% for a few turns while figuring out what you need next is always nice.
Celebithil
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 219
Giving in to a gold-demand and then selling that AI a tech to get the gold back is off course equivalent to giving in to a tech-demand. Thus gold demands seem less bad than tech-demands. However, since the AI values techs lower than the cost we have to research them, since for them they cost less (at reasonable difficulty levels), in AI-view you may well have more gold than the tech they might demand from you.
Also, the AI can demand huge amounts of gold from you (if researching binary) even when you are technologically backward, while they would not be able to extract the equivalent bounty in tech in that situation.
Gold demands in binary research mode can therefore surely be worse than the tech-demands you might get otherwise.
Also, the AI can demand huge amounts of gold from you (if researching binary) even when you are technologically backward, while they would not be able to extract the equivalent bounty in tech in that situation.
Gold demands in binary research mode can therefore surely be worse than the tech-demands you might get otherwise.
Knightly_
Warlord
Setting the science slider to either 0% or 100%, nothing inbetween.
r_rolo1
King of myself
All true, but incomplete
You are forgetting a small detail: when you cave in to a tech demand, the AI is able to do instantly whatever the tech enables, while when you give up money, the AI will still need to spend it researching ( suposing that it uses it all in research
) .Ok, you are right in saying that if you are backwards, the issue is diferent, but that does not invalidate that it is always better to give up of cash than of a tech if the cash is less than the one needed to research that tech ... if you have that chance , that is vranasm
Deity
^^ well I got AI demands occasionally right after finishing trade mission... you could bet how angry I was...
Binary research is of course good, but you sometimes have to think about the AI's and don't bank too much gold and rather burn it in phases.
The normal approach is to bank enough gold to finish the tech on 100% slider. But lately I am using slightly other approach where I bank gold and then spend it a bit sooner and then again bank a bit and then spend etc etc, especially in the early game where I am weak and know that I would have to accept almost any demand I get...
later once you get your decisive military tech, I just ignore the diplomacy ;-) unless forced to make diplo victory.
Binary research is of course good, but you sometimes have to think about the AI's and don't bank too much gold and rather burn it in phases.
The normal approach is to bank enough gold to finish the tech on 100% slider. But lately I am using slightly other approach where I bank gold and then spend it a bit sooner and then again bank a bit and then spend etc etc, especially in the early game where I am weak and know that I would have to accept almost any demand I get...
later once you get your decisive military tech, I just ignore the diplomacy ;-) unless forced to make diplo victory.
Thanks for all the replies, guys. To summarise, there is a small but worth having benefit to "routine" binary research. There is an additional benefit to zero research when building a science multiplier building. But beware of building a large cash surplus in case you get demands for money from the AI that you have to conceed.
All true, but incomplete
You are forgetting a small detail: when you cave in to a tech demand, the AI is able to do instantly whatever the tech enables, while when you give up money, the AI will still need to spend it researching ( suposing that it uses it all in research
you're forgetting a huge difference.
giving up a tech helps an ai at no direct cost to yourself, which in a FFA-style game is no big deal.
giving up gold helps an ai and HURTS you at the same time, which really is a big deal.
using it in every game... still not collecting more gold than needed for 3-4 100% research turns.. 
Early game it can help to save critical few turns to be 1st to settle in strategical place... It takes lot of care too.. but its worth of it usually cause I'm trying to slowly close to perfection...
Early game it can help to save critical few turns to be 1st to settle in strategical place... It takes lot of care too.. but its worth of it usually cause I'm trying to slowly close to perfection...MyOtherName
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,526
The benefit is small, but the cost is even smaller! It takes very little effort -- especially with the BUG mod which gives you the "set to 0/100" buttons -- and it requires very little training to use effectively.
Celebithil
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 219
I think part of the reason r_rolo1 says gold demands don't hurt as bad is that after the demand you can turn around and sell them a tech of yours for the gold they just got from you. In that case it is just a tech demand under a different name, in fact better because you have the choice about which tech to give (or to just let them have the money). Part of my argument was that this does not hold if you are technologically backwards, in which case you might not have (expensive enough) techs to sell to the AI.
r_rolo1
King of myself
And I gave you reason on that, Celebithil
@ Keilah
Saying that giving a tech away for nothing is not hurful is a falacy. This is a competitive game ( that is, only one wins ) and even the stock AI recognizes that a tech decreases it's value when it is known by more people ( even if because more people can do what you do ). It might not be direct ( I can concede that there is margin for disagreement in here ), but giving away a tech for free is always hurful in the baseline. It might be less or more hurful than some side effects of caving in ( especially if the tech is fairly useless ATM, like for example Aesthetics post-wonders ), but getting it to zero would be a coincidence.
@ Keilah
Saying that giving a tech away for nothing is not hurful is a falacy. This is a competitive game ( that is, only one wins ) and even the stock AI recognizes that a tech decreases it's value when it is known by more people ( even if because more people can do what you do ). It might not be direct ( I can concede that there is margin for disagreement in here ), but giving away a tech for free is always hurful in the baseline. It might be less or more hurful than some side effects of caving in ( especially if the tech is fairly useless ATM, like for example Aesthetics post-wonders ), but getting it to zero would be a coincidence.
