"Bitter France"

[JohnRM]

I'll base my opinion of a whole religion on the actions of the loudest members too.

There isn't more than one person in any of those photos and nothing that says, "Kill all fags", "All fags must be beheaded". "Prepare for your 9/11 fags".

Not. Even. Close.
Worst. Comparison. Ever.

 

[Trajan12]

Well if you were taught to hate along with Algerbra, you might hold up those signs. It's not a reflection of the religion but rather many screwed up cultures.

Then they need to reevaluate themselves. And to do that they need to end this "it's the Jews and the West's fault" thing, and take responsibility for their own shortcomings.

 

[Katheryn]

Hmm Islam is Islam. If you want to be violent you may easily read something also in Bible. I cant forget site where was that women of unbelievers will be stabbed. Open some list especcialy in the old testament or look on Crusades in history or another radicals now.

Hogwash. You cannot compare events 1000 and 3000 years ago to what is going on today.

 

[emzie]

Then they need to reevaluate themselves. And to do that they need to end this "it's the Jews and the West's fault" thing, and take responsibility for their own shortcomings.

How does one reevaluate him or herself when there's no comparison?

Remember those polls from the UK asking British Muslims if they supported the 7/11 bombings and something like 25% did? Imagine that poll in the Middle East.

The reevaluations happen. Just not until there's a... fresh prospective... such as my wife and how she deals with her faith.

Hogwash. You cannot compare events 1000 and 3000 years ago to what is going on today.

You can when you say that many Muslims are culturaly stuck in the middle ages. Note, it's not Islam that's stuck in the middle ages, but the many of the cultures that happen to believe in Islam.

 

[De Lorimier]

There isn't more than one person in any of those photos and nothing that says, "Kill all fags", "All fags must be beheaded". "Prepare for your 9/11 fags".

Not. Even. Close.
Worst. Comparison. Ever.

You're right. I'll leave you douchebags piss on a religion for the thousand time.

 

[Katheryn]

It is bizarre that anyone can deny that these things are getting worse... the the calls for death of the infidel are getting worse, more widespread. Extremism is so bad in England, you hear every day about the hundreds of plots, dozens of cells.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/...m=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=4679986

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5BPVF1C5LE&eurl=

 

[Katheryn]

How does one reevaluate him or herself when there's no comparison?

Remember those polls from the UK asking British Muslims if they supported the 7/11 bombings and something like 25% did? Imagine that poll in the Middle East.

The reevaluations happen. Just not until there's a... fresh prospective... such as my wife and how she deals with her faith.



You can when you say that many Muslims are culturaly stuck in the middle ages. Note, it's not Islam that's stuck in the middle ages, but the many of the cultures that happen to believe in Islam.

I didn't say they were culturally stuck in the Middle Ages, they are in the 21st century, just like us. They have chosen how they live. They have all the conveniences we have... they have plenty of oil money that can bring them into a properous culture. Unfortunately, they use that money to build mosquest in the West, use it to push Wahabbism all over the world. That is their choice.

 

[sysyphus]

Hogwash. You cannot compare events 1000 and 3000 years ago to what is going on today.

Events 1000 to 3000 years ago? You mean like the ones in the bible?

 

[Urederra]

Open some list especcialy in the old testament or look on Crusades in history or another radicals now. Main trigger of fanatism isnt Koran, its lack of education, misery and envy.

ummm... cruzades were triggered by the islamic invasion of Europe from the late 7th century or early 8th century. I think Katheryn posted the attacks Europe suffered from Islam in those years some weeks ago. (it was her 2nd or 3rd post, if not her first, IIRC)

 

[emzie]

I didn't say they were culturally stuck in the Middle Ages, they are in the 21st century, just like us. They have chosen how they live. They have all the conveniences we have... they have plenty of oil money that can bring them into a properous culture. Unfortunately, they use that money to build mosquest in the West, use it to push Wahabbism all over the world. That is their choice.

Yeah! All those democratically-elected governments, by the will of the people, using oil profits to spread Wahabbism!

And I'm saying that a lot of Muslims are stuck in the past. I use the word stuck because they didn't -- and do not -- have a choice in the matter.

 

[Katheryn]

ummm... cruzades were triggered by the islamic invasion of Europe from the late 7th century or early 8th century. I think Katheryn posted the attacks Europe suffered from Islam in those years some weeks ago. (it was her 2nd or 3rd post, if not her first, IIRC)

OH! That must mean you want them again!!!


OK!


Upon reflection, I could only wonder how the Crusades could come about; what sparked this reaction from Christians who are supposed to love their enemies and be committed to peace?

I shall list the various reasons...

1. 613 Persians capture Damascus and Antioch

2. 614 Persians sack Jerusalem

3. 633 Muslims conquer Syria and Iraq

4. 635 Muslims begin the conquest of Persia and Syria

5. 635 Arab Muslims capture the city of Damascus

6. 636-637 Arab domination of Syria

7. 637 Arabs occupy Ctesiphon

8. 637 Jerusalem falls to Muslim forces

9. 638 Caliph Umar I enters Jerusalem

10. 639 Muslims conquer Egypt and Persia

11. 641 Islam spreads into Egypt

12. 641 Muslims conquer Alexandria

13. 649 Muawiya I leads raid against Cyprus sacking the capital Salamis-Constantia

14. 652 Sicily is attacked by Muslims

15. 653 Muawiya I leads raid against Rhodes

16. 654 Muawiya I conquers Cyprus

17. 655 Battle of the Masts

18. 661-680 Mu’awiya moves capital from Mecca to Damascus

19. 662 Egypt falls to the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates

20. 667 Sicily is attacked by Muslims

21. 668 First siege of Constantinople

22. 669 Muslim conquest reaches Morocco

23. 672 Muslims capture the island of Rhodes

24. 674 Arab conquest reaches Indus River

25. 698 Muslims capture Carthage

26. 700 Muslims raid Island of Sicily

27. 711 Muslims conquest of Sindh in Afghanistan

28. 711 Battle of Guadalate

29. 712 Conquest of Andulusia

30. 715 Muslim conquest of Spain

31. 716 Muslims captured Lisbon

32. 717 Cordova becomes capital of Andalusia (Spain)

33. 719 Muslims attack Septimania in Southern France

34. 721 Muslims cross the Pyrenees

35. 722 Battle of Covadonga First defeat of Muslims by Christians

36. 724 Muslims raid southern France and capture Carcassone and Nimes

37. 725 Muslim forces occupy Nimes, France

38. 730 Muslim forces occupy Narbonne and Avignon

39. 732 Battle of Tours (Christian Victory)

40. 735 Muslim invaders capture Arles

41. 750 Abbasids move capital to Baghdad

42. 756 The Emirate of Cordova is established

43. 759 Pippin III ends Muslim incursions in France

44. 792 Hisham I calls for a Jihad Thousands heed his call to cross the Pyrenees to subjugate France. Many cities are destroyed

45. 813 Muslims attack the Civi Vecchia near Rome

46. 816 The Moors support the Basques against the Franks

47. 827 Sicily is invaded by Muslims

48. 831 Muslims capture Palermo and make it their capital

49. 838 Muslim raiders sack Marseille

50. 841 Muslim forces capture Bari (in Italy)

51. 846 Muslim raiders attack areas near Ostia and Rome. Some enter Rome and damage the Churches of St. Peter and St. Paul. The Leonine Wall is built to discourage further Attacks.

52. 849 Battle of Ostia (Christian Victory)

53. 850 Perfectus, a Christian priest in Muslim Cordova is executed – one of the first of Many

54. 85111 young Christians are executed for insulting the Prophet Muhammed

55. 858 Muslim raiders attack Constantinople

56. 859 Muslim invaders capture Castrogiovanni slaughtering several thousand

57. 869 Arabs capture the island of Malta

58. 870 Muslim invaders capture Syracuse

59. 876 Muslims pillage Campagna in Italy

60. 879 The Seljuk Empire unites Mesapotamia and a large portion of Persia

61. 884 Muslims invading Italy burn the monastery of Monte Cassino to the ground

62. 900 The Fatimid Dynasty assumes control of Egypt

63. 902 The Muslim conquest of Sicily is completed when the Christian city of Toorminia is captured

64. 909 Sicily comes under control of the Fatimids

65. 909 The fatimid Dynasty assumes control of Egypt

66. 909 Muslims control all the passes in the Alps between France and Italy – cutting off passage between the two countries

67. 920 Muslim forces cross the Pyrenees, enter Gascony and reach as far as the gates of Toulouse

68. 972 The Fatimids of Egypt conquer North Africa

69. 981 Ramiro III, king of Leon, is defeated at Rueda

70. 985 Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir sacks Barcelona

71. 994 The monastery of Monte Cassino is destrpyed a second time by Arabs

72. 997 Under the leadership of Almanzar, Muslim forces march out of the city of Cordova and head north to capture Christian lands.

73. 997 Muslim forces burn Compostela to the ground

74. 1004 Arab raiders sack the Italian city of Pisa

75. 1009 The Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is destroyed by Muslim armies

76. 1009 Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah orders the the Holy Sepulcher and all Christian buildings in Jerusalem be destroyed

77. 1012 Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah orders the destruction of all Christian and Jewish houses of worship in his lands

78. 1012 Berber forces capture Cordova and order that half the population be executed

79. 1015 Arab Muslim forces conquer Sardinia

80. 1064 The Seljuk Turks conquer Christian Armenia

81. 1070 Seljuk Turks capture Jerusalem and begin persecuting Christian Pilgrims

82. 1071-1085 Seljuk Turks conquer most of Syria and Palestine

83. 1071 Battle of Manzikert

84. 1073 Seljuk Turks conquer Ankara

85. 1078 Seljuk Turks capture Nicaea

86. 1084 Seljuk Turks conquer Antioch

67. 1086 Battle of Zallaca

68. 1088 Patzinak Turks begin forming settlements between the Danube and the Balkans

69. 1090 Granada captured by Yusuf Ibn Tashfin

70. 1091 Cordova is captured by the Almoravids

\=============================


What we call The Crusades was Western Europe playing defense for over 90% of the 1000 years of Muslim expansion. Places like Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary do not remember the Crusades as expansionist Christianity. They remember it as the only times they had any help. These countries absorbed the damage and protected Europe for centuries.

Also from Bernard Lewis: Islamic histories did not record the Crusades as such until recently. The invasions were often only part of tribal wars amongst themselves, and several factions actually allied with the Christians from time to time for reasons of their own. Only when Muslims began to study in the West in the 1800’s did they “discover” the Crusades.

 

[sysyphus]

Wow, ten people. Look at how many are in Johns posts.

So what are you saying then? That these people only represent a small minority of Christians and that Christianity is really a religion of peace?

Rubbish, I see it all clearly now... fundamentalist christians are a threat to our open and democratic way of life who want to burn and condemn all those who share their views!

 

[Atlas14]

Katheryn, Christians were just as eager for battle. You listed a time of relative Muslim domination, thus explaining the Christians being on the defensive 90% of the time.

 

[sysyphus]

What we call The Crusades was Western Europe playing defense for over 90% of the 1000 years of Muslim expansion. Places like Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary do not remember the Crusades as expansionist Christianity. They remember it as the only times they had any help. These countries absorbed the damage and protected Europe for centuries.

One moment you're saying events from over 1000 years ago are irrelevant, and now your listing them all for all to see.

Add to that, I don't recall the British Empire, or other European emipires, which committed great acts of genocide and slavery, being built in the name of Islam. Seems to me that lot all carried crosses with them...

 

[warpus]

From canadafreepress.com

Very interesting!

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/dastych111506.htm

Sure, it's interesting, but you, as the OP, are expected to get the discussion rolling. So you know, bolding relevant parts of the article that highlight your point and then actually stating your point would help.

Yep, a point of some sort would sure help.

 

[.Shane.]

So you know, bolding relevant parts of the article that highlight your point and then actually stating your point would help.

Yep, a point of some sort would sure help.

The point is clear, its just her semi-weekly anti-muslim thread.

 

[Katheryn]

One moment you're saying events from over 1000 years ago are irrelevant, and now your listing them all for all to see.

That was a part of the article, which I cut and paste.

 

[CaptainF]

deleeeeete.

 

[Katheryn]

Katheryn, Christians were just as eager for battle. You listed a time of relative Muslim domination, thus explaining the Christians being on the defensive 90% of the time.

Oh really? And what did they fight for? To lose land? Personal Property? To have their wives enslaved? How singular! And here I thought that they were fighting to defend these things, fighting to stop these people from taking over their lands in Spain, in Syria, in Egypt, in France, in Austria.... Thanks for your wisdom! Now I understand all! They just enjoy fighting!

 

[CaptainF]

The point is clear, its just her semi-weekly anti-muslim thread.

Semi-Weekly?

I mean, what is this, only the 50th such thread in a month?

We should tally up all these paranoid ranting threads we've had since 9/11.