Blacks and Whites see race relations differently

Cutlass

The Man Who Wasn't There.
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As an aside from the AA debate.

Poll Finds Obama Isn’t Closing Divide on Race

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By ADAM NAGOURNEY and MEGAN THEE
Published: July 16, 2008

Americans are sharply divided by race heading into the first election in which an African-American will be a major-party presidential nominee, with blacks and whites holding vastly different views of Senator Barack Obama, the state of race relations and how black Americans are treated by society, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

The results of the poll, conducted against the backdrop of a campaign in which race has been a constant if not always overt issue, suggested that Mr. Obama’s candidacy, while generating high levels of enthusiasm among black voters, is not seen by them as evidence of significant improvement in race relations.

After years of growing political polarization, much of the divide in American politics is partisan. But Americans’ perceptions of the fall presidential election between Mr. Obama, Democrat of Illinois, and Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, also underlined the racial discord that the poll found. More than 80 percent of black voters said they had a favorable opinion of Mr. Obama; about 30 percent of white voters said they had a favorable opinion of him.

Nearly 60 percent of black respondents said race relations were generally bad, compared with 34 percent of whites. Four in 10 blacks say that there has been no progress in recent years in eliminating racial discrimination; fewer than 2 in 10 whites say the same thing. And about one-quarter of white respondents said they thought that too much had been made of racial barriers facing black people, while one-half of black respondents said not enough had been made of racial impediments faced by blacks.

The survey suggests that even as the nation crosses a racial threshold when it comes to politics — Mr. Obama, a Democrat, is the son of a black father from Kenya and a white mother from Kansas — many of the racial patterns in society remain unchanged in recent years.

Indeed, the poll showed markedly little change in the racial components of people’s daily lives since 2000, when The Times examined race relations in an extensive series of articles called “How Race Is Lived in America.”

As it was eight years ago, few Americans have regular contact with people of other races, and few say their own workplaces or their own neighborhoods are integrated. In this latest poll, over 40 percent of blacks said they believed they had been stopped by the police because of their race, the same figure as eight years ago; 7 percent of whites said the same thing.

Nearly 70 percent of blacks said they had encountered a specific instance of discrimination based on their race, compared with 62 percent in 2000; 26 percent of whites said they had been the victim of racial discrimination. (Over 50 percent of Hispanics said they had been the victim of racial discrimination.)

And when asked whether blacks or whites had a better chance of getting ahead in today’s society, 64 percent of black respondents said that whites did. That figure was slightly higher even than the 57 percent of blacks who said so in a 2000 poll by The Times. And the number of blacks who described racial conditions as generally bad in this survey was almost identical to poll responses in 2000 and 1990.

“Basically it’s the same old problem, the desire for power,” Macie Mitchell, a Pennsylvania Democrat from Erie County, who is black, said in a follow-up interview after participating in the poll. “People get so obsessed with power and don’t want to share it. There are people who are not used to blacks being on top.”

White perceptions, by contrast, improved markedly from 1990 to 2000, but have remained steady since. This month’s poll found that 55 percent of whites said race relations were good, almost double the figure for blacks.

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted July 7-14 with 1,796 adults, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points. In an effort to measure views of different races, the survey included larger-than-usual minority samples — 297 blacks and 246 Hispanics — with a margin of sampling error of six percentage points for each subgroup.

Black and white Americans agree that America is ready to elect a black president, but disagree on almost every other question about race in the poll.

Black voters were far more likely than whites to say that Mr. Obama cares about the needs and problems of people like them, and more likely to describe him as patriotic. Whites were more likely than blacks to say that Mr. Obama says what he thinks people want to hear, rather than what he truly believes. And about half of black voters said race relations would improve in an Obama administration, compared with 29 percent of whites.

About 40 percent of blacks said that Mr. McCain, if elected president, would favor whites over blacks should he win the election.

There was even racial dissension over Mr. Obama’s wife, Michelle: She was viewed favorably by 58 percent of black voters, compared with 24 percent of white voters.

Part II
Spoiler :
Page 2 of 2)

Among black voters, who are overwhelmingly Democrats, Mr. Obama draws support from 89 percent, compared with 2 percent for Mr. McCain. Among whites, Mr. Obama has 37 percent of the vote, compared with 46 percent for Mr. McCain.

After a Democratic primary season in which Mr. Obama had difficulty competing for Hispanic votes against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Mr. Obama leads Mr. McCain among Hispanic voters in the likely general election matchup by 62 to 23 percent. Mr. Obama is viewed favorably by more than half of Hispanic Americans, compared with Mr. McCain, whose favorability rating is just under one-quarter. By significant margins, these voters believe that Mr. Obama will do a better job of dealing with immigration; Mr. McCain has been trying to distance himself from Republicans who have advocated a tough policy on permitting illegal immigrants to stay in the country.

Over all, Mr. Obama leads Mr. McCain among all registered voters by 45 percent to 39 percent.

White voters, much more so than black voters, are divided in their political loyalties. Mr. Obama draws significant support among white Democrats. Yet still, among just Democrats, blacks were more apt than whites in the poll to express positive views of Mr. Obama across a range of questions. For example, black Democrats were 24 points more likely than white Democrats to have a favorable opinion of Mr. Obama.

“I don’t like some of his policies, like on energy,” said Bob Beidelman, 69, a white Democrat from York, Pa., about Mr. Obama. “Also I don’t like statements his wife made. She seems like a spoiled brat to me.”

He added: “I’m one of those white people who clings to guns and the Bible, and those things that Barack said kind of turned me off,” he said. “This isn’t a black and white thing. If a conservative African-American like former Congressman J. C. Watts was running, I’d have bumper stickers plastered all over my car supporting him.”

The survey found extensive excitement among African-Americans about the prospect of Mr. Obama’s candidacy, a factor that could prove important in pushing voter turnout. The poll found that 72 percent of black voters said they expected Mr. Obama to win.

The high levels of enthusiasm for Mr. Obama among black Americans suggested that there was less of a divide among them about his candidacy than suggested by occasional tension among black leaders. Last week, Mr. Obama was criticized by the Rev. Jesse Jackson as “talking down to black people” by going before black audiences and urging parents to take more responsibility for their children.

“He’s got all these enthusiastic young people working for him,” said James Wilson, 75, a property manager from Philadelphia who is black. “I’m a person who would never give money and they called on the phone and got me to give.”

The poll found that Mr. McCain is yoked to the legacy of President Bush — majorities believe that Mr. McCain, as president, would continue Mr. Bush’s policies in Iraq and on the economy. Mr. Bush’s approval rating on the economy is as low as it has been in his presidency, 20 percent; and even while there has been an increase in the number of Americans who think the war is going well, there has been no change in the significantly large number of people who think it was a mistake to have invaded.


Kevin Sack, Dalia Sussman and Marina Stefan contributed reporting.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/us/politics/16poll.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


What this says to me is that America's whites are broadly smugly arrogant about the situation. They simply refuse to see an ongoing problem.

The reason I care so much about this is, that as an ever larger number of blacks give up on the American dream, the crime and poverty and associated problems spill out further and further and affect more people.

We're already paying for the problem, why not just end it rather than pay an ever increasing price?
 
What this says to me is that America's whites are broadly smugly arrogant about the situation. They simply refuse to see an ongoing problem.

The reason I care so much about this is, that as an ever larger number of blacks give up on the American dream, the crime and poverty and associated problems spill out further and further and affect more people.

We're already paying for the problem, why not just end it rather than pay an ever increasing price?

Sounds to me like there are criticisms to be had all around.

What can or should be done to end it?
 
What this says to me is that America's whites are broadly smugly arrogant about the situation.

What this says to me is that America's blacks are broadly smugly racist about the situation.
 
Sounds to me like the culture of victimization constantly preached by the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and others has really caught on.
 
In before the descent into stupidity! EDIT: Too late for that. :(

Odds are, since whites more often live in areas with little to no contact with other races than is possible for a minority, the only picture of race relations they get is from the media. So whites in less diverse areas have a much rosier picture than people who live in very integrated areas.
 
I think its funny that you think the whites are secretly more racist than they think they are or something :lol:

Edit: couldnt it also be said then that members of other races have little contact with most of white society, and thus their impressions of them are formed by the media? Not everyone in a small town is a crazy racist hick (in fact most are very good people).
 
What this says to me is that America's blacks are broadly smugly racist about the situation.

So do you miss the good old days of the Southern states when people knew their place by skin colour ?
 
So do you miss the good old days of the Southern states when people knew their place by skin colour ?

Just like in the northern states and out west.
 
I think its funny that you think the whites are secretly more racist than they think they are or something :lol:

From what I have expirienced, being a minority gives you a lot more leway when it comes to racism. I'm not saying they have a liscence to be racist, but they tend to get away with a whole lot more, especially if white people are on the recieving end.

An environment exists today where there is no medium on this spectrum. There are the hardcore skinhead-kkk-type people, and the completley "I'm not prejudiced at all, I love black people I love 'em!" types. Many at least feel they have to appear that way on the outside, because all it takes is one...

Spoiler :


... good reason or not, and the accused is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
duh10chars

;)

Whats the South Park episode, Token tells Kyle or Stan he just doesn't get it (racism), and finally realizes he doesn't get it.
 
Forgive me, I don't watch South Park, but I bet it works anyway. I know some of those episodes have quite a lot of truth to them.
 
Specifically, what are you trying to end? People feeling that they are discriminated against, or actual cases of discrimination? This poll is really just about feelings and perceptions. You haven't proven with this OP that there is an actual problem, other than there is a degree of negative feelings.

You could probably make steps towards ending bad feelings through prescription meds and alcohol.

Would it improve things to enforce every workplace to have one 'white' person adjacent to one 'black' person all in row? Would that suddenly end crime, violence, morale problems, and the DOW would skyrocket?

Believe it or not, any person can have any opinion about any political candidate. Analyzing that for racial bias is surely a violation of constitutional right. We all have a right to vote, a right to assembly, etc.. Enforcing a color pattern on that because it might make you sleep better at night is ridiculous. Automatically inferring that there is a color bias in one's political choices is pretty suspect logic as well.

As an aside from the AA debate.


We're already paying for the problem, why not just end it rather than pay an ever increasing price?
 
Sounds to me like there are criticisms to be had all around.

What can or should be done to end it?

More integrated living, I think. Getting people to live in more diversified communities would prevent the sense of community isolation. We get used to (familiar with) societies that we're exposed to, and we get nervous about societies which we only hear bad things about (and most news is bad news).

Raising kids with a diversity of races means the kids will be more of the idea that everyone is normal.
 
You have ways to go, America.

Perhaps but so does everybody else. People may fancy the US as the bottom of race relations but to say that anywhere else is any better is to be in serious denial.

If nothing else at least the dialogue exists in the US, the rest of us like to bury our heads in the sand and act as though we've got it covered.
 
Cutless, read the article again. Please clarify to us how you can justify such a statement from all of that. As GoodGame mentions, this is more about feelings and persceptions of race relations in a board sense instead of anything more concrete. For example..

After years of growing political polarization, much of the divide in American politics is partisan. But Americans’ perceptions of the fall presidential election between Mr. Obama, Democrat of Illinois, and Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, also underlined the racial discord that the poll found. More than 80 percent of black voters said they had a favorable opinion of Mr. Obama; about 30 percent of white voters said they had a favorable opinion of him.

Maybe the rumors about Obama worked? From his former pastor, his wife, to his 'blatant socialism', "elitism", and the rest, Obama is no longer the shiny poster child of the democratic party.

Nearly 70 percent of blacks said they had encountered a specific instance of discrimination based on their race, compared with 62 percent in 2000; 26 percent of whites said they had been the victim of racial discrimination. (Over 50 percent of Hispanics said they had been the victim of racial discrimination.)

The key word here is 'said.' There can be people who play music too loudly in a computer lab (let's say rap), get angry looks, and feel 'discriminated.' So long as you instill people with the idea that discrimination is more prominent, that person will be more sensitive and interpret things that aren't "racist" as racist. I'm sure racial discrimination exists, but actual racial discrimination is likely much lower than those numbers listed. I'm sure there are many such instances of purported racial discrimination that can be written off as such.
 
Perhaps but so does everybody else. People may fancy the US as the bottom of race relations but to say that anywhere else is any better is to be in serious denial.

If nothing else at least the dialogue exists in the US, the rest of us like to bury our heads in the sand and act as though we've got it covered.

In California it's better.:cool:
 
The key word here is 'said.' There can be people who play music too loudly in a computer lab (let's say rap), get angry looks, and feel 'discriminated.' So long as you instill people with the idea that discrimination is more prominent, that person will be more sensitive and interpret things that aren't "racist" as racist. I'm sure racial discrimination exists, but it actual racial discrimination to be much lower than those numbers listed.

Could go either way. People could under-report racial discrimination as easily as over-reporting it. They could be in denial, or unperceptive, or just not want to have to answer the anticipated next question "If so, describe the incident" - they want to get back to their dinner :lol: Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the poll numbers change depending on whether the pollster's voice "sounds white" or "sounds black".
 
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