Blacks outside Africa

[Uncle Paul]

But, your statement that Lincoln was only elected by the Northern States implies a view, legally-speaking, that secession had already occurred before the election he won to first come to office.

It is my understanding that Lincoln was very radical, and that is why the Southern people rebelled against him.

 

[Patine]

It is my understanding that Lincoln was very radical, and that is why the Southern people rebelled against him.

He was actually quite moderate compared to others running against him in his party for the nomination at their convention. Like Romney and Biden, he was actually chosen, along with his oratory skill, for being the, "most electable and least alienating," of the choices at that convention, funny enough

 

[Uncle Paul]

He was actually quite moderate compared to others running against him in his party for the nomination at their convention. Like Romney and Biden, he was actually chosen, along with his oratory skill, for being the, "most electable and least alienating," of the choices at that convention, funny enough

Biden is the opposite of moderate.

 

[Patine]

I can do hyperbolic, ridiculous doctored, political memes, too.

They don't really make any valid points in these kinds of arguments, by nature, do they?

 

[Uncle Paul]

I can do hyperbolic, ridiculous doctored, political memes, too.

They don't really make any valid points in these kinds of arguments, by nature, do they?View attachment 640251View attachment 640250

Who even are those people?

 

[Patine]

Who even are those people?

Former U.S. President from the '80's Ronald Reagan, and 2008 Republican Presidential candidate John McCain (who was defeated by Barack Obama).

My point stands, however, on how using these sort of sensationalist memes to attempt to, "demonstrate," a politician or other public figure's REAL traits, attitudes, or views is a fool's game.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Former U.S. President from the '80's Ronald Reagan, and 2008 Republican Presidential candidate John McCain (who was defeated by Barack Obama).

My point stands, however, on how using these sort of sensationalist memes to attempt to, "demonstrate," a politician or other public figure's REAL traits, attitudes, or views is a fool's game.

Fair enough.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It is my understanding that Lincoln was very radical, and that is why the Southern people rebelled against him.

When you are dealing with a two party system the other side will be considered "radical" no matter what they say or do.

Biden is the opposite of moderate.

See above. I believe he is more moderate than others in his party, it's just hard to see it when he's being influenced by partisan politics.

 

[Uncle Paul]

When you are dealing with a two party system the other side will be considered "radical" no matter what they say or do.

You could have 2 far-right parties, one that is more focused on religious conservatism and one that is more focused on ethnonationalism.

See above. I believe he is more moderate than others in his party, it's just hard to see it when he's being influenced by partisan politics.

He's very pro-multicultural, pro-mass migration, pro-feminism and progressive gender ideology. That's extremely radical. He's not as bad as Julius Malema is, but that's a very low bar.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

and one that is more focused on ethnonationalism.

Yeah I think not.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Yeah I think not.

OK then

 

[Henri Christophe]

I was wondering, if is possible to not the facto rulers being leaders of civilization (as Gandhi)
I would like to sugest as France leader an revolutionary leader Alexander Dumas.
His son is already at the game as a great writer, who wrote great books as the 3 mosqueteers, The Iron Mask and some others...

Alexander Dumas, the father, had Haitian heritage. Make him fiting very well this thread of Blacks outside Africa.
He are an hero of French revolution and even fought with Napoleon on Egypt. Have a good biography about him write by Tom Reiss.

 

[Patine]

I was wondering, if is possible to not the facto rulers being leaders of civilization (as Gandhi)
I would like to sugest as France leader an revolutionary leader Alexander Dumas.
His son is already at the game as a great writer, who wrote great books as the 3 mosqueteers, The Iron Mask and some others...

Alexander Dumas, the father, had Haitian heritage. Make him fiting very well this thread of Blacks outside Africa.
He are an hero of French revolution and even fought with Napoleon on Egypt. Have a good biography about him write by Tom Reiss.

A Black leader outside Africa (or Haiti) should ONLY be seriously considered if they have more merits as a leader and historical figure that recommend them ABOVE other leaders of the same civ, OTHER than just being Black.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I was wondering, if is possible to not the facto rulers being leaders of civilization (as Gandhi)
I would like to sugest as France leader an revolutionary leader Alexander Dumas.
His son is already at the game as a great writer, who wrote great books as the 3 mosqueteers, The Iron Mask and some others...

Alexander Dumas, the father, had Haitian heritage. Make him fiting very well this thread of Blacks outside Africa.
He are an hero of French revolution and even fought with Napoleon on Egypt. Have a good biography about him write by Tom Reiss.

I wouldn't want him as a Leader, but it would be great if he became a Great General.

 

[Birch617]

idk if this have been proposed but Joseph Chatoyer (Satuyé) could lead the Garifuna

Joseph Chatoyer (Satuyé).

pueblosoriginarios.com

 

[Birch617]

or maybe Juan Francisco Bulnes

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I was wondering, if is possible to not the facto rulers being leaders of civilization (as Gandhi)
I would like to sugest as France leader an revolutionary leader Alexander Dumas.
His son is already at the game as a great writer, who wrote great books as the 3 mosqueteers, The Iron Mask and some others...

Alexander Dumas, the father, had Haitian heritage. Make him fiting very well this thread of Blacks outside Africa.
He are an hero of French revolution and even fought with Napoleon on Egypt. Have a good biography about him write by Tom Reiss.

What is next have Yasuke lead Japan just because he fought with Oda Nobunaga?

 

[Henri Christophe]

A Black leader outside Africa (or Haiti) should ONLY be seriously considered if they have more merits as a leader and historical figure that recommend them ABOVE other leaders of the same civ, OTHER than just being Black.

All leaders of my list have merits enought to be a civ leader. They aren't just Black.
And about Alexander Dumas, some paintings about him decapited his heroical acts as him was blond, I kind of erasure of the real history made by chronists.
This game have power to review the history and make us remember the brave acts of a Black French.

I wouldn't want him as a Leader, but it would be great if he became a Great General.

If he becomes a Great General in civ7, I hope the unit isn't a generic one of Greats General and we can see a Black soldier at a French Revolution uniform.
Because generic Great Generals don't give a clue about the history of it's unity.

idk if this have been proposed but Joseph Chatoyer (Satuyé) could lead the Garifuna

Joseph Chatoyer (Satuyé).

pueblosoriginarios.com

or maybe Juan Francisco Bulnes

Nice names of Garifunas, thanks!
I never heard about they. I would apreciate if you could talk more about they

What is next have Yasuke lead Japan just because he fought with Oda Nobunaga?

Yasuke should be a nice shot to Japan also!
Yasuke was the first forigner to become a Samurai, and had a proeminent position of power under Oda Nobunaga times.
But, nowadays the population of Japan isn't so Black as France. France make sense to have a Black leader since it have ~30% of it's population of Blacks.
Meanwhile I believe Yasuke fits better as a great general since Black population on Japan is insiginificant.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

All leaders of my list have merits enought to be a civ leader. They aren't just Black.
And about Alexander Dumas, some paintings about him decapited his heroical acts as him was blond, I kind of erasure of the real history made by chronists.
This game have power to review the history and make us remember the brave acts of a Black French.

If he becomes a Great General in civ7, I hope the unit isn't a generic one of Greats General and we can see a Black soldier at a French Revolution uniform.
Because generic Great Generals don't give a clue about the history of it's unity.


Nice names of Garifunas, thanks!
I never heard about they. I would apreciate if you could talk more about they


Yasuke should be a nice shot to Japan also!
Yasuke was the first forigner to become a Samurai, and had a proeminent position of power under Oda Nobunaga times.
But, nowadays the population of Japan isn't so Black as France. France make sense to have a Black leader since it have ~30% of it's population of Blacks.
Meanwhile I believe Yasuke fits better as a great general since Black population on Japan is insiginificant.

No no no. Then why don't we have a white leader in African nation?

 

[Patine]

All leaders of my list have merits enought to be a civ leader. They aren't just Black.
And about Alexander Dumas, some paintings about him decapited his heroical acts as him was blond, I kind of erasure of the real history made by chronists.
This game have power to review the history and make us remember the brave acts of a Black French.

But, do they compare with the other leaders of those nations enough to take their place in a Civ iteration.? Is Dumas really going to be considered a real competitor to be THE French leader over Louis IX, Charles IV, Joan d'Arc, Henri IV, Catherine de Medici, Richlieau, Louis XIV, Maximillian Robespierre, Napoleon I, or Charles de Gaulle? Really? Would he even be a stand-up for anyone (but a tiny few, like yourself) to even come to mind, or be expected, or not be baffling. Also, if India is broken up into 3, 4, even 5 civs, Malik Ambar and his obscure and tiny Dccan polity of the Ahmadnagar Sultanate - not even a very well-known or prominent polity of the many in the Deccan - would certainly NOT be a scream-out for one of those slots, and would, again, be baffling. John Horse may have a case to be a Seminole leader, and Osceola has a better case in every meaningful way.