[BtS] "Extra"

[Scribblette]

Ah, and you asked us to point out anything that seemed overpowered... some of the future civics seem a bit mad. Particularly the Government civic with low cost, high research, etc. Although logic could state that civs wouldn't get that civic til the end game where it could perhaps, vaguely, be justified, it seems massively overpowering if a civilization grabs the Pyramids early on and switches to it for that cheap as dirst 25% research bonus, etc.

 

[DAKH]

Well you could argue that Representation is overpowered as well, but each civic choice has different uses. I'm not doing the math, but I'm pretty sure that with a super science city running SE and Rep it could pump out more than a CE with Technocracy, as well as providing happiness to your largest cities.

 

[Scribblette]

By overpowered I meant only per the cost of the civic itself, or so it seemed to my inexperienced eye. With the pyramids way early on in the game, I can get the massive boost of Technocracy for no additional cost, without having to sacrifice any citizens etc for specialists. I just thought perhaps it should have a medium upkeep. I'm no mathematician either, though, and I've barely been playing Civ more than a couple weeks proper, so any veteran of the game will know more about balance than I.

Oh, as per my post on the last page, can you see the icons for what 'Extra' religions are held in a city via the city screen? I can't. I have, however, realized that I can see what cities have what religion via the religion changing screen, which basically takes care of that.

 

[DAKH]

You can see the religions in each city from the world view, just above the growth and production bars. I think to make it viewable from within the city screen it would require some dll, or at least python modding; making a second row of religions, but I bet Chiyu can answer that more accurately.

Hm, I see what you mean on the upkeep cost of the Technocracy civic, and while I'm all for balance (I'm doing a few modifications to this mod actually), I haven't really paid attention to the upkeep of the civic. Perhaps to make it a bit more balanced it should be be increased to medium or high upkeep cost.

 

[Military man]

I downloaded the mod into the proper folder but I cant figure out how to play it. When I go to load a mod it isn't there. Can someone help?

 

[mamba]

Well, if you had installed it into the correct folder it would show up imo. So what folder did you install it to (um, you did install it and not just download it I assume) ?

 

[Military man]

Well, if you had installed it into the correct folder it would show up imo. So what folder did you install it to (um, you did install it and not just download it I assume) ?

1. I downloaded it into the MODS folder
2. how do you install it?

 

[mamba]

1. I downloaded it into the MODS folder

Civ4\BtS\Mods, right ?

2. how do you install it?

as it is a .rar file, you would need to extract it there. You would then have a dir called 'Extra' in the Mods dir. That dir in turn contains a dir called 'Assets'.

If you have that, you should have it installed properly, if you don't, well then it is not installed properly.

 

[Military man]

1. yes
2. how do you extract it? the .rar file only shows up as a blank page icon

 

[mamba]

2. how do you extract it? the .rar file only shows up as a blank page icon

Get WinRar

 

[Darkhon]

This mod is more than just Extra.

It should be called 'Extra ++' or something

So far it seems overwhelming (in a GREAT Way).

Here is what I wish some mod makers would do, and this is definitely a candidate.

Include in your mod a readme.txt so that it can answer a few questions.

I always wonder the same things: What speeds/difficulty works best?

Are there any included scenarios? (please say YES!)

 

[Darkhon]

After my first game I did not get to the AD era, I found I had hopelessly expanded my empire (on marathon/noble) and I could simply not generate enough gold to maintain research. I was quickly being left behind by the Vatican and Charlegmane (Who shared an island with me)
any tips?

 

[Chiyu]

@Scriblette: Indeed, I'm aware that you can't see the religions in the city screen. I'll try to look into the python files that deal with this to see if I can solve that for the next version, but I can't promise anything.

@Scriblette: I'll look into it and perhaps change the cost of Technocracy to medium. Normally the civic would be fine, since you get it very late in the game, but it's true that the Pyramids might complicate things a little...

@Military man: looks like Mamba already took care of your problem ^^.

@Darkhon: Why, thank you .
Since this mod keeps the core gameplay of the game intact, it's hard to recommend a speed or difficulty. I always play on the default settings (noble and normal), but that's just me.
Unfortunately there are no scenarios for this mod yet, but if there are some scenarios that only work with this mod (some scenarios that use the new civilizations, for instance) I would gladly include them.

@Darkhon: Tips for your game would mostly be the same tips that there are for the normal game as well.
A VERY important tip for your game in particular is that you should use the civic Judicial, since it decreases the upkeep costs of the number of cities! So race to Code of Laws as soon as possible (which will also give you access to courthouses, which are also essential to a growing empire).
Another tip specific to this mod I can give you is that you should take advantage of the large number of religions there are: founding more religions means more culture and more money with great prophets! But if you're that much behind in technology, it's probably already too late for this...

 

[Scribblette]

Villages, gold mines, the Financial/Industrious leader traits, Judicial civic, the Colossus wonder and making sure your capital is in the middle of your city spread (build a palace in your central city) can be rather helpful.

Playing on the Earth2 map setting on Huge and Marathon - at Warlord, however - I found that the maximum I could sensibly expand by around 0 AD was the entire continent of Africa and the Middle East. Captured Moscow from barbarians, but despite the oodles of money it brought in with all the clams offshore, it was just too far way - and I was saving my Forbidden Palace for the New World or Australia.

I prefer Marathon for the fact I can explore the world much faster and take out several civilizations with Warriors alone, clearing up the entire continent for me to party on.

 

[Some guy]

Technocracy actually has very little to do with just "technology". It's more of a government of experts than just actual scientists. Technically, one could say that they all are scientists, but not the kind we would all regularly assume; not only would there be scientists of technology governing, but scientists of economics, politics and such would be governing too for the highest possible efficiency in each branch. So, in my opinion, technocracy should enable effects of something like: +10% science, +10% commerce, +10% production in all cities in stead of it's current effect. It's more like Bureaucracy in a sense that professionals are running things.

 

[PreLynMax]

Ok the link to the new version dosen't work.

Technocracy actually has very little to do with just "technology". It's more of a government of experts than just actual scientists. Technically, one could say that they all are scientists, but not the kind we would all regularly assume; not only would there be scientists of technology governing, but scientists of economics, politics and such would be governing too for the highest possible efficiency in each branch. So, in my opinion, technocracy should enable effects of something like: +10% science, +10% commerce, +10% production in all cities in stead of it's current effect. It's more like Bureaucracy in a sense that professionals are running things.

That would be awesome. I too think Technocracy is very underpowered. I also considered Technocracy the "ultimate civic", making it more useful than what it really is.

I just don't know where to alter the civic to show those changes, and to change the upkeep to high.

Spoiler :

Edit: I did it! It took some tweaking, but I managed to get this tech to have +10% to commence, production and food, and +25% to science. I also increased the upkeep from Low to High.

This is what the new Technocracy looks like:


I'm thinking of removing the food bonus and keeping just the other bonuses.

Spoiler :

If you are feeling lazy, you can replace the previous Technocracy code in your Program Files/Fraxis Games/Civilization 4/Beyond The Sword/Mods/Extra/Assets/XML/GameInfo, find the
CivicInfo code for Technocracy, and replace it with this code:

<CivicInfo>
<CivicOptionType>CIVICOPTION_GOVERNMENT</CivicOptionType>
<Type>CIVIC_TECHNOCRACY</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_TECHNOCRACY</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_TECHNOCRACY_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_TECHNOCRACY_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<Help/>


<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Transport.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/FinalFrontier2_Atlas.dds,4,5</Button>
<TechPrereq>TECH_HAPPY_11</TechPrereq>
<iAnarchyLength>1</iAnarchyLength>
<Upkeep>UPKEEP_HIGH</Upkeep>
<iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>0</iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>
<iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>0</iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>
<iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>0</iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>
<iExtraHealth>0</iExtraHealth>
<iFreeExperience>0</iFreeExperience>
<iWorkerSpeedModifier>0</iWorkerSpeedModifier>
<iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>0</iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>
<iMilitaryProductionModifier>0</iMilitaryProductionModifier>
<iBaseFreeUnits>0</iBaseFreeUnits>
<iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>0</iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>
<iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>
<iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>
<iGoldPerUnit>0</iGoldPerUnit>
<iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>0</iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>
<iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>0</iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>
<bMilitaryFoodProduction>0</bMilitaryFoodProduction>
<iMaxConscript>0</iMaxConscript>
<bNoUnhealthyPopulation>0</bNoUnhealthyPopulation>
<iExpInBorderModifier>0</iExpInBorderModifier>
<bBuildingOnlyHealthy>0</bBuildingOnlyHealthy>
<iLargestCityHappiness>0</iLargestCityHappiness>
<iWarWearinessModifier>0</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iFreeSpecialist>0</iFreeSpecialist>
<iTradeRoutes>0</iTradeRoutes>
<bNoForeignTrade>0</bNoForeignTrade>
<bNoCorporations>0</bNoCorporations>
<bNoForeignCorporations>0</bNoForeignCorporations>
<iCivicPercentAnger>0</iCivicPercentAnger>
<bStateReligion>0</bStateReligion>
<bNoNonStateReligionSpread>0</bNoNonStateReligionSpread>
<iStateReligionHappiness>0</iStateReligionHappiness>
<iNonStateReligionHappiness>0</iNonStateReligionHappiness>
<iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>0</iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>
<iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>0</iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>
<iStateReligionFreeExperience>0</iStateReligionFreeExperience>
<YieldModifiers>
<iYield>10</iYield>
<iYield>10</iYield>
<iYield>10</iYield>
</YieldModifiers>
<CapitalYieldModifiers/>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceModifiers>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>25</iCommerce>
</CommerceModifiers>
<CapitalCommerceModifiers/>
<SpecialistExtraCommerces/>
<Hurrys/>
<SpecialBuildingNotRequireds/>
<SpecialistValids/>
<BuildingHappinessChanges/>
<BuildingHealthChanges/>
<FeatureHappinessChanges/>
<ImprovementYieldChanges/>
<WeLoveTheKing>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_WE_LOVE_TECHNOCRAT</WeLoveTheKing>
</CivicInfo>

 

[PreLynMax]

Ok instead of wasting a double post, I just got a grand idea, Chiyu...

Early military units.
There is a possiblity that you might want to bump the time frame from 5000 B.C. to 2100 A.D., but this would be a good early-game strategy.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Clubman
Warrior Class
1, 1, cost 10.
Bonus: None
Requires: None
Upgrades to: Spiked Clubman
Your basic pre-warrior unit. Very cheap, and weak, but used to protect your cities very quickly.

Spiked Clubman (Replacement for Warrior)
Warrior Class
2, 1, cost 25.
Bonus: 50% vs. Melee units
Requires: Masonry
Upgrades to: Axeman only
A proper upgrade from Clubman, and a replacement for Warrior, it also has a 50% vs Melee units to raise early terrior on your opponents!

Slingman
Archer Class
2, 1, cost 15.
Bonus: 50% city defense, 25% hills defense
Requires: Hunting
Upgrades to: Archer
An pre-archer defense unit. This unit does not have any first strike bonuses, but still a useful early defensive unit.

Spikeman
Warrior Class
3, 1, cost 20.
Bonus: 100% vs. Mounted Units
Requires: Hunting
Upgrades to: Spearman
A replacement and pre-spearman unit. Still strong against mounted units without the copper/iron requirement.

Changes to previous units:
Spiked Clubman replaces Warrior.
Spearman now requires Bronze Working (previously Hunting).

What do you think? Worth the time?

 

[Wolfshanze]

What exactly is a "Spikeman"?

I've never heard of a Spikeman unit, or of a "spike" being a weapon in and of itself.

 

[iamdaduck]

I'm getting a "not found" when I try and DL it.

 

[PreLynMax]

@ Wolfshanze:
A spike is an ancient unit that uses a stiff long pole with a stone carved blade in the end. Basically the caveman version of a spear.

@ imadaduck:
The link works now. Try it again.