Buddhism and Hinduism

[tristangreer]

Small question here.

Do you think that having the Spanish and the Indians start out with Mysticism gives them too much of an advantage?

Whenever I play as any other civ, both of them have nearly always acquired those two religions first. Usually the Spanish get Buddhism and the Indians get Hinduism. Even in my games as the Indians, I was never able to get Buddhism first if the Spanish were also in the game.

Given that all religions are equal, do you think this is unfair for them to be able to found religions so much more easily than the other civs?

To make it more fair, I think that the earlier religions should give less benefit than the later ones, kind of like how the techs work. What do you guys think?

 

[Daniel Jackson]

Well, I've played several games so far, and in all but one I founded at least one religion, and one of them was either Buddhism or Hinduism. Of course, this may just be because of my lower difficulty level.

 

[Saltylicious]

In every game I've played with Isabella in it, she has ALWAYS gotten Buddhism. Not an exaggeration. Next time I'm going to get it before her, just to piss her off...Because I KNOW she'll be researching it.

But umm I usually play as India anyway, so it doesn't bother me...Later religions do pretty well in most of my games (Except Islam, it's usually the last to be founded), they automatically get a free missionary right?

 

[Bud2998]

I find Hinduism is easier to find than Buddhism. The AI almost always beats me to Buddhism when I try to go for it. I usually give it a rest as I don't start off with mysticism and go for Judaism instead, or if I'm beat to that also, then I'll beeline to Christianity.

 

[tristangreer]

I personally think that the only time the Spanish don't get Buddhism is if they get a lousy starting position. In every game I've played against them, they always get it.

I wish there was a way, on custom games, to select for certain civ's not to be included. That way you could take certain ones out, but still keep the others random.

 

[TheDervish]

In my experience, the AI always shoots for Buddhism first.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Whenever I play as any other civ, both of them have nearly always acquired those two religions first. Usually the Spanish get Buddhism and the Indians get Hinduism. Even in my games as the Indians, I was never able to get Buddhism first if the Spanish were also in the game.

That depends on the level of difficulty you're playing on - on higher levels, you simply cannot expect to get first to one of the early techs, because of the AI's bonus.

On Monarch or below though, it's not true that Spain and India will found these religions always first. A lot depends on the starting positions, for example starting on a river will give you more commerce = more research power, helping you quite a bit.

I have found that you have a reasonable shot at an early religion. Just optimize your capital for research (I usually set it to emphasize growth and research) and go for mysticism first. Then, either go for hinduism (in my experience, that one is easier to get) or try buddhism directly. If it gets founded before you're finished, just switch immediately to the the other tech and you have a very good chance at getting one of the religions. In my experience, this works three out of four times on monarch even with Spain or India in the game.

Given that all religions are equal, do you think this is unfair for them to be able to found religions so much more easily than the other civs?

No, it's not unfair - it's the trait advantage they have. Switching civics freely is nice but not that strong if you plan carefully, so the ability to found an early religion is the "hidden" bonus they have bringing them on par with the other traits.

I think most people overrate founding a religion anyway. It is only *one* possible strategy, and you're paying a price for it, delaying other techs like worker techs for it. You can very well win the game without founding an early religion (or any religion at all).

-Kylearan

 

[dl123654]

Strange, I was just in a game where Spain founded Hinduism, two turns later Roosevelt got Buddhism.

But in general the AI does rush for Buddhism.

 

[Pyrion]

I just gun it for Hinduism, because yeah, the AI almost always manages to nab Buddhism.

 

[spa]

Even if Hinduism and Buddhism are taken you can always make a beeline for Judaism. I have played three games now on Prince in which I missed out on the early two religions, but by going straight for it I was first to Judaism (the civs I did it with are Mali, Germany and Arabia). That way you can still have an early religion which I have found helps a lot in culture, happiness and your finances once you get the shrine.

 

[The Apple]

If you miss out on the three early religions, you will almost certainly be able to snag one of the later four. I did an experiment the other day when I didn't bother reasearching any of the starting religious techs, I just picked them up through tech trades later on. By ignoring them and going the science route, I ended up founding Taosim, Confusism, and Islam without even trying to.

 

[baptiste]

Strange, I was just in a game where Spain founded Hinduism, two turns later Roosevelt got Buddhism.

Tried to take Isabella as starting civilization yesterday, to try the religion "rush" on Regent difficulty mode.

As soon as i founded my first city (ie : first round), immediately got Hinduism, then easily and soon grabbed judaism and catholicism.

The deal is quite nice if you do manage conversion of part of the AI, but be clear that you will have forever ennemies from the founders of the other religions if you do so.

 

[HourlyDaily]

I agree that it makes many early games repetitive. I don't want to remove the Indians or Spanish from the 'random' pool though.

I'm very much interested in a DYP style major addition to the technology tree.
I've learned from Civ 4 that for me, it is not about the pace of construction and research being slow. It is about the pace of construction being reasonable and the tech race being either slowed down or made more divergent.

Adding more techs, with associated benefits and missing units is what was great about DYP. Not everyone liked it, but I adopted the tech tree to my own games. For the soluton to this problem - insert one or two techs in between mysticism and Poly/Meditation to try to give other civs a shot (on noble or above)