Building Petra on Immortal+

[loserforsale]

Only last night I managed Petra in my second city on Immortal. This was playing as the Americans, so no special bonuses, and it was a late-but-not-disgustingly-late Petra - somewhere around turn 80 IIRC. I didn't just get Writing before going to Currency, I also got Mining (chopping forest, plus there was some salt around) and Calendar (giving me the happiness to grow New York as well as Washington).

It should be noted, however, that I had an absolutely magnificent start - no less than five wheat within my capital's radius, two of them Flood-Plain wheat. That allowed me to get a second city out reasonably quickly and to send a couple of workers over. Also - I don't know how much of an impact this has, but it was a team game (I was trying out that West Side Story re-enactment thing). I'd imagine that might cut down on the tendency of any particular AI to hog all the wonders -or, if they have a lot of desert, to beeline Currency - when they have far less control over the tech path.

 

[Cromagnus]

You cant spin up a game and with the intention of building Petra. You have to know when you can build it.

Bingo. Knowing when to go for it takes experience though. As a general rule, if I can't get Petra out by turn 80, I don't bother... turn 70 on Deity. That requires a pretty good snowbally start.

And just because you have a desert start doesn't mean you should build Petra. It's often not worth it. My metric is 7+ desert/river/hill tiles. Those become 3food3production farms with Civil Service & Petra. 7+ desert/hill non-river tiles is doable, but, if you don't have a lot of grassland or floodplains tiles in the latter case, you're kind of screwed... if you're going tall. 1food4production tiles are great for a war machine... or a wonder whore... bad for science.

 

[jrwh]

Funny I should come across this thread, I just went for Petra on a deity game I started last night.

I got Arabia as my civ (play random civs/standard size/continents) with an unbelievably godly start - I was on a plains hill next to a river, with 3 copper desert hills within the first radius, and a marble and silver in the third radius. Tons more river+desert+hill tiles around, and an oasis, too. Mecca expanded its first two tiles to the marble without me having to buy any.

The first two CS I met gave me 8 faith each so I was able to snag desert folklore or w/e very early without even having to build a shrine. On my continent there was only Austria all the way on the northern coast, and four total CS. The only thing I found less than perfect was that I wanted a coastal expansion to both the east and west, since there was no easy way to get ships around the continent from one side to the other, and that forced me to settle them one tile away from mountains, eliminating potential for observatories in those two cities in the future. I also put a fourth city up next to Mt Kilamanjaro in the middle of the continent, within caravan range of Austria, and also with loads of food and jungle around for future science-generating goodness.

I went Pottery first, then Archery, cuz a friggin barb camp spawned 4 tiles NE of my cap on the first turn. Got Mining --> Masonry next to improve both the copper and marble. Found Writing from a ruins, so I had a library in Mecca very early, and one going up in each of my expansions so that I could go straight into NC after Petra. Grabbed AH to time a caravan out of my cap that got rebased to my fourth right as it was planted to start trading to Austria for gold + beakers + religious pressure + I-was-gonna-be-really-late-with-Construction-so-I wanted-her-to-like-me immediately (got both religious CS's to ally via barb quests early, and between that and desert folklore got a pretty early religion, in fact it was enhanced while Petra was constructing). After that, it was straight to Currency.

I goofed a little bit with my policy timings, and I didn't get the +15% to wonders until two turns after I started Petra. Definitely wanted to get the +3 happiness from my capital though as I didn't settle any of my other three cities directly on top of luxes, and had skipped Trapping and Calendar anyway. I also lost some production from going -1 happiness for a few turns when another barb camp popped a few tiles to the south of Mecca and sent a Swordsman (!!!) up to sit on my copper and pillage it.

I missed Petra by one turn, sometime around turn 80 or so I think. What a blower.

EDIT: It was turn 81

 

[Gori the Grey]

I'm trying this in my game right now, as Ethiopia. I've actually never built Petra for the reasons stated here, Currency is along a line I fill late. But I had a site for my capital that had some desert, but also some stone on grasslands, etc. so I thought I might have the growth and production to make it. Archery and 1 pop from goodie huts.

I've reached Currency at turn 64. I picked up pottery and mining (lots of copper). It says Petra is 19 turns off, but I'll get an 8th citizen in 3 turns, and at that point I'll lock down to higher production. I'll get the ancient wonders policy soon, too, so I suspect I can get it below turn 80. We'll see if any AI can beat me to it, but I feel like I've got a pretty good start.

I'll stop back to let you all know whether I made it or how much I missed by. At least it's made the early game non-routine.

[Yes, by turn 67, I have it down to 11 more turns]

Update: I got it on turn 75!

 

[jrwh]

Nice! Did you chop a forest or something to shave off those extra three turns?

In my game last night Austria built Petra on turn 55...I was the Celts so I didn't worry too much about it.

 

[jrwh]

Speaking of Petra, this map I just rolled as Russia:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Yeah, my laptop is basura and I play on the lowest graphics settings.

Already popped two ruins for a crudely drawn map and AH, and have three more to grab. It's a shame Lake Victoria (I recognize the fat river this thread, lol) is so far away, still haven't even found it yet. I think I'll settle a city on the floodplains tile SW of the barb camp so as to get the mountain and as many desert hills as possible, and send it a food caravan from Moscow. Will probs grab Calendar as I think Moscow will want to expand to wine after horses, then go straight for Currency. Should be able to get enough gold from barb camps/CS'/horses to rush buy a settler and get that city up in time. Torn between getting granny up given the lack of food around and crossing fingers for a faith hut, or getting shrine ASAP for Desert Folklore. I'm still pretty new/bad, wish me luck!

 

[Gori the Grey]

Nice! Did you chop a forest or something to shave off those extra three turns?

Yes, I chopped a forest. Bought a forest to chop; didn't want to take any chances on not getting it. Already I think it's well worth it. I'm working three (non FP) desert tiles, so that's 3 extra food and production (worth, what, a granary, water mill, stable), also, three extra faith, since I have DF, so the equivalent of a shrine and temple. Then the caravan, which would have taken me ~5 turns to build. I spent 11 turns building it, stopping growth for eight of those turns. And, of course, I've delayed NC. But it feels to me like, in this case, since I had the pop and hammers to go for it, it was the right choice. I'll post a screen shot at some point, so you can see that getting it wasn't my skill, but the favorable location.

 

[APCY]

Yes, I chopped a forest. Bought a forest to chop; didn't want to take any chances on not getting it. Already I think it's well worth it. I'm working three (non FP) desert tiles, so that's 3 extra food and production (worth, what, a granary, water mill, stable), also, three extra faith, since I have DF, so the equivalent of a shrine and temple. Then the caravan, which would have taken me ~5 turns to build. I spent 11 turns building it, stopping growth for eight of those turns. And, of course, I've delayed NL. But it feels to me like, in this case, since I had the pop and hammers to go for it, it was the right choice. I'll post a screen shot at some point, so you can see that getting it wasn't my skill, but the favorable location.

Offtopic, but i want to ask what map are you guys playing on immortal or higher? And what victory are u aiming for? Domination only?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Offtopic, but i want to ask what map are you guys playing on immortal or higher? And what victory are u aiming for? Domination only?

Well, I always go normal size and speed but random everything else. I'm about 110 turns into this game now (I haven't had much time to play lately) and I'm getting the impression it's a small continents map. Poland and Iroquois are on my landmass. I can't get a scout beyond them to the SW or SE, but also no scouts have come from other civs. An Ottoman trireme pulled up about the time I built Petra and now I've sent a trireme off to the east and found him and the Huns. He's denounced someone else still, so there's someone at least near him, maybe a third civ on his landmass.

Anyway, as to victory conditions, that's a weakness of this game and I'm blaming it in part on Petra. I still haven't settled in on one, I was just so focused on seeing what was involved in getting that wonder. I only founded one other city, not entirely because I was working on Petra, but because there's not a lot of particularly good land around me. That's fine for now, but it won't help with any victory long term. Hiawatha founded tons of cities, so if I can get him to attack me, I might start cranking out troops and roll him, . While building Petra, I bribed him into war with Poland, to keep both of them out of my hair, and he hasn't quit yet (though I haven't seen any actual fighting). The Ottomans and Huns are fighting, and at least one of their cities had been razed before I got over to their landmass.

Don't like being as directionless as I am, because I have reasons for really wanting to win this game. We'll see.

 

[anthropophage]

I built it on immortal earlier today. As soon as I saw my starting location I knew I had to go for it, I was Poland and had 10 desert hills, 4 with sheep, I also had a mountain. I beelined writing straight away, grabbed calender, then mining and beelined for currency. Meanwhile I nabbed a worker from nearby Mongolia and a second from Valetta. Build-order was scout, scout, shrine, granary, library, caravan, archer, some turns into Hanging Gardens (I wanted the garden), and then started building Petra. I got my pantheon about turn 35ish and took DF, of course, setting me up for an easy religion, I took tithe, Divine Inspiration, Religious Community and Messiah. I researched Horseback Riding next, rush bought the Ducal Stables and bought the sheep tiles immediately. After petra was done I went back to HG, then NC before nabbing the Oracle, Writers Guild and National Monument. All built before turn 90. Set me up for an insanely easy OCC culture victory.
It played like it was Prince or something.

 

[Novalia]

Here's a fun Babylon immortal map i rolled on Christmas.

 

[budweiser]

Here's a fun Babylon immortal map i rolled on Christmas.

Got it, thanks!

I will save it for later.

 

[rodrigoq]

I should find my Shoshone desert map I've been playing... Diety, large, pangea, marathon. Random map, random civ, start bias off.
First time ever, pathfinder has fluked out and given me something amazing. Turn 24 writing(on marathon), I didn't even know it was possible to obtain it that early. Needless to say, this was the start of a wonder-whoring, faith-rape game. Managed GL, ToA and Petra, in record time, on a very nice desert/plains start.. 4 salt + marble, and about 8 desert hills.

Usually I never fail to get Petra with a desert start. Never try for it with non desert starts or 2nd/3rd city, unless I'm wonder whoring and want the extra TR.

 

[Cromagnus]

Missed the Marathon bit, never mind.

 

[anthropophage]

He said Marathon speed.

 

[Cromagnus]

He said Marathon speed.

Oops, my bad. t24 is probably reasonable on Marathon. I can see tech and growth ruins being a bigger advantage on Marathon as well. Still... Getting ToA and GL is extremely unlikely unless Marathon is totally different in ways I don't fully understand. But I'm not a marathon player.

 

[anthropophage]

Nor am I. But I think it takes something in the region of 60 odd turns to research to writing at that speed.