C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[Koshling]

All that is done in the dll not the Python. The screen gets handed the formatted text for what the effects are. The strategy text on the other hand is formatted by the Python.

Yes that would be doable with a little effort. Dman I meant to quote eldrin's part, but you know what I mean.

 

[Koshling]

Looking at it there appear to be at last four problems

1. text is going over the right of the box
2. text is going over the bottom of the box
3. second row of quick buttons is going outside the box causing a scroll bar on the right
4. information in the main panel is going over the scroll bar at the top.

There is code in place for both of these. the first is not being done everywhere and the second is because the bit to figure out the size of the box is not using the same code as the bit that puts the text in the box.

Problems identified - now to see if I can solve it.

Edit: fixed 2 and 3

1. is caused by the dll code not returning the correctly wrapped lines. Python code is

				szHelpText = CyGameTextMgr().parseCivicInfo(iCivic, False, True, True)
				HelpList = szHelpText.splitlines()
				lines += len(HelpList)

Is the DLL code supposed to wrap to some specific width? If so I can look at that, but my recollection of that code is that all it does is insert linefeeds between items (not wrap within an item). That's not to say it couldn't of course - how would it know what character width to wrap to though (and anyway isn't it a proportionally spaced font, in which case there is no way for anything before the rendering to know where to wrap lines)?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Is the DLL code supposed to wrap to some specific width? If so I can look at that, but my recollection of that code is that all it does is insert linefeeds between items (not wrap within an item). That's not to say it couldn't of course - how would it know what character width to wrap to though (and anyway isn't it a proportionally spaced font, in which case there is no way for anything before the rendering to know where to wrap lines)?

Currently the code does not parse what it gets from the dll. I should be able to do that now that I am more familiar with the code. I would just have to figure out what an "end-of-line" is. If you do as EldrinFal suggested I can even indent the bits below the point for even greater readability.

 

[EldrinFal]

Not sure if it's the same code or not (probably not) but the Civilopedia has the text overflowing too. For Despotism at least.

 

[EldrinFal]

With Despotism reworked (and pushed to SVN), I'm taking a look at its neighbor Monarchy. I still consider Monarchy an overall BETTER government, but at the same time Despotism should have its advantages.

My feeling is that Monarchy is a bit more centralized with some emphasis on warlike behavior, but less warlike than Despotism. Monarchs have various means to legitimize their rulership versus merely power/tyranny, and relies on troops slightly less to reduce citizen anger. I also continued the trend of Monarchy favoring certain buildings, especially their own place of residence. They also favor appointed and ritualized knights and lords.

Here is what I pose as the new Monarchy. As always, please comment

Revised. Trimmed out a little bit. Removed Crusader as per little_cyclone's comments and Royal Monument per Hydro's. Knighthood and nobles bear some relation to Monarchy, so decided to keep that unit production bonus. In general, I think it's a good revision, no OP, and there is cause for using both Despotism and Monarchy-- more so if you have city limits off.

Monarchy

• Upkeep High (no change)
• +5% in Capital
• Remove: +1 from Walls, High Walls, Castle
• Remove: +1 Support Cost for Military
• +5% in Capital
• +5% in Capital
• +1 per Military Unit in City
• +3 in Capital
• Remove: No in Capital
• +30% Maintenance from Distance to Capital (up from 15%)
• +15% Maintenance from Number of Cities
• +30% Maintenance from Overseas Cities (up from 15%)
• Free Military Units = 10% of Population
• +10% Military Unit Production
• +25% Production for Knight, Mailed Knight, Camel Knight, Noble, Lord
• Remove: +50% Production for Archer, Longbowman
• Remove: +50% Production for Espionage Units
• Unlimited Nobles (no change)
• +50% Production of Walls, High Walls, Castle, Riding School, Palace Garden, Palace Walls, Servant Quarters, Throne Room, Ball Room, Palace, Spanish Citadel, Moat, Arrow Slits, Siege Towers, Keep, Heavy Gates, Dungeon
• Fixed Borders (no change)

 

[Koshling]

Is there any (relatively easy) way to get those building lists to be grouped together? So instead of a separate +1 or +1 for each and every one of them, they can be +1 for Barracks, Garrison, Military Academy, etc etc.

Seems that might save some space.

Turns out that the code already did that with commerce and yield modifiers (well, it doesn't group them so that all buildings with the same modifier are together, but if two consecutive buildings in the list have the same modifier, it uses a simple comma-separated list format - look at state church for example with all the +25% golds).

I have simply used the same code on happyness/unhappyness and health/unhealth from buildings, which shortens things marginally (though it lengthens individual lines at the expense of less vertical space)

@DH- I'm not seeing anywhere where texts overflows the right hand boundary of the window. Which civic(s) are you seeing this in, and on what resolution? (I have not dropped below 1280X1024 admittedly)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Turns out that the code already did that with commerce and yield modifiers (well, it doesn't group them so that all buildings with the same modifier are together, but if two consecutive buildings in the list have the same modifier, it uses a simple comma-separated list format - look at state church for example with all the +25% golds).

I have simply used the same code on happyness/unhappyness and health/unhealth from buildings, which shortens things marginally (though it lengthens individual lines at the expense of less vertical space)

@DH- I'm not seeing anywhere where texts overflows the right hand boundary of the window. Which civic(s) are you seeing this in, and on what resolution? (I have not dropped below 1280X1024 admittedly)

See my first attachment in post. I updated it. If I go above the default/lowest I can no longer see images on the C2C forums until I reboot my machine.

The code bases the line length on resolution so I can fix it in the Civics Screen. Fridays are always filled with RL so not much gets done then.

 

[strategyonly]

UPDATE Version 18 uploaded

Couldn't get post @ 285 in before the deadline, you'll have to make a patch if you want it in.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Suggestion: The earliest Civics have a 2 turn anarchy. In terms of game years this is too long. Maybe the 1st ones should only have 1 like they did sometimes in previous versions?

JosEPh

 

[EldrinFal]

Suggestion: The earliest Civics have a 2 turn anarchy. In terms of game years this is too long. Maybe the 1st ones should only have 1 like they did sometimes in previous versions?

JosEPh

They are actually just set to 1 in the Civics XML. It may be adding to a base of 1, or it's adjusting for game speed??

Anyhow, I went through the XML and noticed some lingering AI weight values, which I removed. Also tweaked some Anarchy length for you. Generally speaking I think Gov't changes should be longer than the others.

You need to get on the SVN JosEPH

 

[Koshling]

They are actually just set to 1 in the Civics XML. It may be adding to a base of 1, or it's adjusting for game speed??

Anyhow, I went through the XML and noticed some lingering AI weight values, which I removed. Also tweaked some Anarchy length for you. Generally speaking I think Gov't changes should be longer than the others.

You need to get on the SVN JosEPH

Correct. It's all game-speed adjusted

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

They are actually just set to 1 in the Civics XML. It may be adding to a base of 1, or it's adjusting for game speed??

Anyhow, I went through the XML and noticed some lingering AI weight values, which I removed. Also tweaked some Anarchy length for you. Generally speaking I think Gov't changes should be longer than the others.

You need to get on the SVN JosEPH

There is/was some adjustment for some traits which reduce anarchy length like spirtual

 

[climat]

Divine Cult (High Upkeep)

• Unlimited Priests
• can build 6 more units without support cost
• -10% WW (reduced from -25%)
• Removed : -50%
• +20% in capital (reduced from 50%)
• -10%, -25% in all cities (reduced from -25%)
• No in capital
• +1 with State Religion
• +1 with Palace, Forbidden Palace, Sacrificial Altar, Pyramids, Taj Mahal, Mausoleum of Maussollos, Monument, Pyramid of the Magician and Goat Farm, Sheep Farm
• enables Divine Monument, Shrine, Sacrificial Altar, Tlalo's Altar

How about this?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yeah the -50 is a real turn off, especially if you ever wanted to use this Civic beyond Ancient Era.

You need to get on the SVN JosEPH

If you would come to my home and help me I'd love too!

JosEPh

 

[EldrinFal]

Divine Cult (High Upkeep)

• Unlimited Priests
• can build 6 more units without support cost
• -10% WW (reduced from -25%)
• Removed : -50%
• +20% in capital
• -10%, -25% in all cities
• No in capital
• +1 with State Religion
• +1 with Palace, Forbidden Palace, Sacrificial Altar, Pyramids, Taj Mahal, Mausoleum of Maussollos, Monument, Pyramid of the Magician and Goat Farm, Sheep Farm
• enables Divine Monument, Shrine, Sacrificial Altar, Tlalo's Altar

How about this?

Yes, listing it out like that helps a lot. And let's other people see what we're talking about. Just need to get JosEPH to do the same with Slavery

I'll have more to comment on it this week. Hopefully others will too.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yes, listing it out like that helps a lot. And let's other people see what we're talking about. Just need to get JosEPH to do the same with Slavery

I'll have more to comment on it this week. Hopefully others will too.

I havn't learned those skill sets. I can barely spell my name much less make a List!

JosEPh

 

[EldrinFal]

I havn't learned those skill sets. I can barely spell my name much less make a List!

JosEPh

I'm sure you can manage. There is a button at the top of the edit message post just under the Font Size that lets you create a list. You enter one line at a time. But you don't have to use that. You can just type it out line by line.

 

[EldrinFal]

Divine Cult (High Upkeep)

• Unlimited Priests
• can build 6 more units without support cost
• -10% WW (reduced from -25%)
• Removed : -50%
• +20% in capital (reduced from 50%)
• -10%, -25% in all cities (reduced from -25%)
• No in capital
• +1 with State Religion
• +1 with Palace, Forbidden Palace, Sacrificial Altar, Pyramids, Taj Mahal, Mausoleum of Maussollos, Monument, Pyramid of the Magician and Goat Farm, Sheep Farm
• enables Divine Monument, Shrine, Sacrificial Altar, Tlalo's Altar

How about this?

My only question is about the No in Capital. and removing completely the penalty for GP. I would imagine with a Divine Cult, there would be some suppression of non-military great people arising. There IS a culture penalty after all.

Why No in Capital ?

 

[climat]

My only question is about the No in Capital. and removing completely the penalty for GP. I would imagine with a Divine Cult, there would be some suppression of non-military great people arising. There IS a culture penalty after all.

Why No in Capital ?

Well, the god people worship is with them in the same city. Won't it make them really happy?
I didn't think deeply about it when I suggested it. Since DC gives 1 with palace, it isn't needed.
My suggestion was for making people use DC more. I assumed there would be many people who hate penalty, so I suggested removing it. Some kind of suppression makes sense, but it would decrease usefulness of DC.

 

[EldrinFal]

Well, the god people worship is with them in the same city. Won't it make them really happy?
I didn't think deeply about it when I suggested it. Since DC gives 1 with palace, it isn't needed.
My suggestion was for making people use DC more. I assumed there would be many people who hate penalty, so I suggested removing it. Some kind of suppression makes sense, but it would decrease usefulness of DC.

I try to consider usefulness but also make it as real as possible. The description for Divine Cult in the game text says the government forces the people to treat leaders like gods. That sounds more oppressive than actually the people believing it and worshipping the person.

When combined with Despotism, which I think most Divine Cult would be, then there is already No in Capital.

But if Divine Cult was actually people truly believing their leaders are gods, then yes, it makes sense.