C2C Pedia

[Dancing Hoskuld]

To clear this up, Coasts are almost always a part of the continental shelf. There are 3 depth layers, Continental Shelf, Deep and Trench. Of course, islands like Hawaii go straight to Deep waters right away therefore we have Deep Coasts (and if Seas are 2 spcs out for navigation then we need Deep Sea tiles as well. We probably would not need Continental Shelf tiles for Ocean waters as I can't see maps having Continental shelves extending 3 spaces away from land.

I want things to be a clear as possible in game so as not to confuse the three concepts we are representing here. Having Coast/Sea/Ocean define navigation and Polar/-/Tropical define climate just leaves something needed to define depth.

-|Very Shallow|Shallow|Normal|Deep|Very Deep
Coast|

N/A​

|

N/A​

|

-​

|Yes=Deep Coast|?=Trench
Sea|

N/A​

|Yes=Continental Shelf|

-​

|

Yes​

|?=Trench
Ocean|Yes=Continental Shelf|

Yes​

|

-​

|

?​

|

N/A​

Where

Very Shallow is the same as two steps less deep than average
Shallow is one step less deep than average
Deep is one step more deep than average
Very Deep is two steps deeper than average

Continental Shelf = as deep as Coast
Trench means one step deeper than Ocean​

Except in scenarios in the Mediterranean or Gulf of Mexico. Eg for ancient eras where you may want to fine tune navigation to the era. Or even modern eras which contain those areas. They both count as continental shelf for depth but could easily have Coast, Sea and Ocean areas defined for navigation purposes.

 

[Toffer90]

How I originally though about it, excluding climate variations:

• Shallow = Coast, Cont shelf, (Shallow Sea)
• Normal = Sea, Ocean, Deep Coast
• Deep = Trench

7 base salt water terrains.


But perhaps it should be more levels of depth:

• Shallow = Coast, Cont shelf, (Shallow Sea)
• Normal = Sea, Deep Coast
• Deep = Deep Sea, Ocean
• Very Deep = Trench

8 base salt water terrains.


EDIT: Perhaps I should drop deep sea an make a Shallow Sea instead.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you look at ocean maps you'll see there's really only need for 3 depths. Thus, Continental Shelf, Deep, and Trench. Coast, Sea, and Ocean would be the 3 needed for surface navigation rules. Not seeing why we need to complicate that further. Any of the 3 could be used in combination except Trench and Coast.

Continental shelves drop off to a depth that remains roughly consistent for most of the ocean floor with exception of the deep trenches.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am having trouble getting people to understand me today. If you just want 3 then that is fine as long as we end up with 3x3x3 salt water terrains ie 27.

3 for navigation by 3 for climate by 3 for depth.

So the 9 without climate would be

• coastal continental shelf ie coast (normal depth)
• coastal deep
• coastal trench
• sea continental shelf ie continental shelf
• deep sea ie sea (normal depth)
• sea trench
• oceanic continental shelf
• oceanic deep ie ocean (normal depth)
• oceanic trench

is that right?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I am having trouble getting people to understand me today. If you just want 3 then that is fine as long as we end up with 3x3x3 salt water terrains ie 27.

3 for navigation by 3 for climate by 3 for depth.

So the 9 without climate would be

• coastal continental shelf ie coast (normal depth)
• coastal deep
• coastal trench
• sea continental shelf ie continental shelf
• deep sea ie sea (normal depth)
• sea trench
• oceanic continental shelf
• oceanic deep ie ocean (normal depth)
• oceanic trench

is that right?

For the most part, correct. However, I don't think we'll need 'coastal trench' and maybe even not 'sea trench'. I'd be happy to restrict trenches to ocean. Earth seems to.

 

[Toffer90]

I'd be happy to restrict trenches to ocean. Earth seems to.

This has been my standpoint from the beginning.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So that gives us for temperate climate

• Coast (coastal continental shelf, normal depth)
• Deep Coast
  
  
• Continental Shelf (shallow sea)
• Sea (normal depth)
• Deep Sea
  
  
• Oceanic Continental Shelf
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Oceanic Trench

For polar (climate) waters we have

• Polar Coast (coastal continental shelf, normal depth)
• Polar Deep Coast
  
  
• Polar Continental Shelf (shallow sea)
• Polar Sea (normal depth)
• Polar Deep Sea
  
  
• Polar Oceanic Continental Shelf
• Polar Ocean (normal depth)
• Polar Oceanic Trench

And for tropical climate we have

• Tropical Coast (coastal continental shelf, normal depth)
• Tropical Deep Coast
  
  
• Tropical Continental Shelf (shallow sea)
• Tropical Sea (normal depth)
• Tropical Deep Sea
  
  
• Tropical Oceanic Continental Shelf
• Tropical Ocean (normal depth)
• Tropical Oceanic Trench

Is that right?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Perhaps we wouldn't need Oceanic Continental Shelf either. I'm not sure if there's anywhere where this would seem too appropriate. So maybe we could get away with out it. Otherwise, that's a well stated list imo.

 

[Toffer90]

So that gives us for temperate climate

Spoiler :

• Coast (coastal continental shelf, normal depth)
• Deep Coast
  
  
  [*]Continental Shelf (shallow sea)
• Sea (normal depth)
• Deep Sea
  
  
• Oceanic Continental Shelf
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Oceanic Trench

Is that right?

• Coast (continental shelf)
• Deep Coast (normal depth)
  
  
• Sea (Continental Shelf)
• Deep Sea (normal depth)
  
  
• Oceanic Continental Shelf (Continental Shelf)
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Oceanic Trench (Deep)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

• Coast (continental shelf)
• Deep Coast (normal depth)
  
  
• Sea (Continental Shelf)
• Deep Sea (normal depth)
  
  
• Oceanic Continental Shelf (Continental Shelf)
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Oceanic Trench (Deep)

Shouldn't Coast be normal depth and continental shelf?

 

[Toffer90]

Shouldn't Coast be normal depth and continental shelf?

Erm, thats what stated in the quote above your question, so yes...

Edit: Ah, I understand now, sorry.
If coast where both of those; deep coast would have to be as deep as trench, and this is unrealistic.

 

[Redwallzyl]

so its this right?

 

[Toffer90]

so its this right?

Spoiler :

Thats about right, yeah. ^^
Although, we could for simplicity sake, let coast be as shallow as sea and continental shelf. Depends on how many depth layers TB needs I guess, and he stated earlier that he needed 3.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I would arrange as:

• Coast (continental shelf)
• Deep Coast (normal depth)
  
  
• Sea (Continental Shelf)
• Deep Sea (normal depth)
  
  
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Trench (Deep)

Don't think we'll need Continental Shelves to go beyond 2 spaces from land but if you want that last one it's not a problem.

 

[Thunderbrd]

so its this right?

Spoiler :

Blend the first two layers and give room for the middle depth to come right up to the shore and give room for the shallowest depth to extend out up to 2 spaces and you got it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Now I am confused I thought we had:

• Coast (continental shelf, normal depth)
• Deep Coast (deep)
  
  
• Continental Shelf (shallow sea)
• Sea (normal depth)
  
  
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Trench (Deep)

 

[Thunderbrd]

Now I am confused I thought we had:

• Coast (continental shelf, normal depth)
• Deep Coast (deep)
  
  
• Continental Shelf (shallow sea)
• Sea (normal depth)
  
  
• Ocean (normal depth)
• Trench (Deep)

Perhaps the term 'normal depth' is throwing things off here. What we did most recently does line up somewhat with what you're showing there but it should be:

• Coast Depth 1
• Deep Coast Depth 2
  
  
• Sea Depth 1 (Still continental shelf)
• Deep Sea Depth 2
  
  
• Ocean Depth 2
• Trench Depth 3

The Depth rating on the above chart would also be the amount a submersible unit may submerge.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That is fine, there is just a terrain called "Continental Shelf" in game at moment and that was throwing me.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's because you inserted the concept of the Sea tile after Toffer and I had discussed the Continental Shelf being able to extend past the basic coast tiles.

 

[Toffer90]

Spoiler :

• Coast Depth 1
• Deep Coast Depth 2
  
  
• Sea Depth 1 (Still continental shelf)
• Deep Sea Depth 2
  
  
• Ocean Depth 2
• Trench Depth 3

The Depth rating on the above chart would also be the amount a submersible unit may submerge.

You excluded Continental Shelf:

1 Tile from land:

• Coast Depth 1 (Still continental shelf)
• Deep Coast Depth 2

2 Tiles from land:

• Sea Depth 1 (Still continental shelf)
• Deep Sea Depth 2

3+ Tiles from land:

• Continental Shelf Depth 1 - Edit: Ok I surrender, we don't need this terrain
• Ocean Depth 2
• Trench Depth 3