C3X: EXE Mod including Bug Fixes, Stack Bombard, and Much More Release 17

[AnthonyBoscia]

I think the bright yellow needs to be brighter, the bright blue a little more, and probably go with the bright red instead of the dark one used here. Try again tomorrow.

 

[tjs282]

Why not e.g.
Green = Full moves remaining, can attack
Yellow = Partial moves remaining, can attack
Red = Partial moves remaining, cannot attack
(Unit greyed out = No moves remaining)

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

I wouldn't mind icons even smaller than 15x15, in fact I think I'd prefer it so they don't distract from the text on the menu. The problem is it's hard to fit the little swords even into 15x15 pixels. I had to shorten the sword from the barracks icon by 5 or so pixels to make it fit. I wouldn't mind reusing the little movement LEDs from the base game except I can't think of a good way to make them show which units can or cannot still attack during the current turn.

The sword doesn't need to fit within the lamps, it can slash through left and right, using the full width of 15 pixels. The sword could also be given a halo-effect in a lighter color around it if that helps to make it stand out more.

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

I wouldn't mind reusing the little movement LEDs from the base game except I can't think of a good way to make them show which units can or cannot still attack during the current turn.

Or how about this: You simply reuse the game's 6x6 pixels movement LEDs, unaltered. Then cram them all the way to the right on a 15x15 icon with invisible background, leaving a 9x15 unused area to the left of the LED. Then put a standing (vertical) sword there. So basically, you have tiny LED lamps right next to the text indicating movement, and the little swords on the far left indicating attack ability. All within the same icon.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

tjs version.

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

I wouldn't mind reusing the little movement LEDs from the base game except I can't think of a good way to make them show which units can or cannot still attack during the current turn.

Or how about this: You simply reuse the game's 6x6 pixels movement LEDs, unaltered. Then cram them all the way to the right on a 15x15 icon with invisible background, leaving a 9x15 unused area to the left of the LED. Then put a standing (vertical) sword there. So basically, you have tiny LED lamps right next to the text indicating movement, and the little swords on the far left indicating attack ability. All within the same icon.

This is a sketch of how it would look like (I only edited the first two lines):

 

[Civinator]

In my eyes the simple red/green LED would fit better for units that still can attack. The swords are not needed, waste additional place in the info screen (what especially hampers longer unit names) and in my eyes look ugly. The simple green LED for can attack (in that turn) and red LED for can not attack in that turn (any longer) in my eyes is fitting the best and can do the full job. A yellow "button" for partial movement in my eyes is not needed and with such a special category the question would arise about the limits of such a partial movement. The real question is, if this unit can still attack into the next tile or if not - and here the red and green LED are sufficient.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Civinator version, with the blue for interception. I am an advocate for the interception indicator because this is the one area where if you are unsure and click on the aircraft, its turn will be wasted.

 

[Chalito]

Civinator version, with the blue for interception. I am an advocate for the interception indicator because this is the one area where if you are unsure and click on the aircraft, its turn will be wasted.

Oh yeah, I like this one!! Simple red and green are much easier and less complicated on the eyes! And of course the Blue, which is the real game-changer in all of this!!

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

In my eyes the simple red/green LED would fit better for units that still can attack. The swords are not needed, waste additional place in the info screen (what especially hampers longer unit names) and in my eyes look ugly.

If done like I did in my last post, the sword takes up no additional space, as it is merged with the LED indicator into the same 15x15 icon (the sword could have been drawn prettier, though). Long unit names is not a problem, because the right-click menu automatically widens to adapt to the longest name in the list. But I agree that just the LED lamps alone look cleaner.

It basically looks fine the way AnthonyBoscia did in his last post (Civinator's proposal, copied above) with just the red, green and blue LEDs. But I think it is counter-intuitive that units with movement left should have red indicators.

If the swords are omitted, the LED indicators could possibly be made larger. Regarding colors, I think the better option would be to give the units that cannot move a red LED, and the ones that can move a yellow LED. Yellow could mean any degree of movement, including full movement (for non-combat units), as long as they cannot attack. Green just means they could attack, even if some movement has already been spent.

For example, if you stack bombard with a group of Radar Artillery, they will all spend their attack (and thereby 1 movement point). But the yellow LED would indicate they are still available to be moved afterwards.

Original proposal:

If you are able to put icons on all units, perhaps it would be an idea to use a traffic light model? There are already icons for that in the game. Like, on top of the health bar for all units there is a small LED lamp that changes color depending on the movement state of the unit. Those are 6x6 pixels, but could be scaled up. For example, green could mean the unit is able to attack, yellow means it cannot attack but it can move, and red means all movement is spent so it can't be given any more orders. It would also be nice to have some indication whether fighter planes are on Air Superiority missions, since there is no good way to determine that from the right-click menu. You could always click on the fighter, but then you'll wake it up if it actually was on a Superiority mission so you'll never know, and have to give the orders over again. If this is possible to achieve, I suggest a light blue color (like the sky) for this purpose.

The benefit of keeping the sword, on the other hand, would be that all the LED lamps mean the same thing as on the map. The feedback would be more intuitive, and also more accurate.

 

[Arexander]

Do the unit names always adjust to the same position regardless of the size of the icon? If they do, then adding a sword wouldn't hurt much since the LED is small enough anyway, and there is a lot of negative space otherwise that looks odd.

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

Do the unit names always adjust to the same position regardless of the size of the icon? If they do, then adding a sword wouldn't hurt much since the LED is small enough anyway, and there is a lot of negative space otherwise that looks odd.

Yes, the icon is 15x15 pixels. The LED lamps within are 6x6. You can compare the two first lines I edited in post #1966 with the ones AnthonyBoscia drew in post #1968. They align the same. The real question is, as there are differing opinions, how do we want to illustrate the menu options.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

EPW no-sword variant.

 

[Flintlock]

I like the smaller LEDs, they look neater to me. How about red for units that can still attack and white for ones that can't? I feel like if we use red/yellow/green then those colors must represent moves remaining since they're already so closely associated with movement, so it's better to use different colors. Then remaining moves could be indicated through the brightness of the LEDs: fully bright for unmoved units, dimmed for moved but not exhausted units, and off for units that have no remaining moves. As before, blue would indicate a fighter set to intercept.

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

I like the smaller LEDs, they look neater to me. How about red for units that can still attack and white for ones that can't? I feel like if we use red/yellow/green then those colors must represent moves remaining since they're already so closely associated with movement, so it's better to use different colors. Then remaining moves could be indicated through the brightness of the LEDs: fully bright for unmoved units, dimmed for moved but not exhausted units, and off for units that have no remaining moves. As before, blue would indicate a fighter set to intercept.

I think that might work well, both graphically and intuitively, and support the idea. Red is commonly associated with danger, combat or war. White is associated with peace. And if the LED is off (dark) it matches the greyed out text better as well.
But maybe just the base colors would be enough? Dimmed versions might make the list harder to read.

If the final version uses the 6x6 LEDs, I have two small suggestions:

1. Make the blue icon lighter. It would be easier to associate it with the sky if it is a clear, light blue.
2. The LED will align better if it is moved all the way to the right within the 15x15 area.

 

[Civinator]

I like the smaller LEDs, they look neater to me.

Yes, the same for me.

How about red for units that can still attack and white for ones that can't? I feel like if we use red/yellow/green then those colors must represent moves remaining since they're already so closely associated with movement, so it's better to use different colors. Then remaining moves could be indicated through the brightness of the LEDs: fully bright for unmoved units, dimmed for moved but not exhausted units, and off for units that have no remaining moves. As before, blue would indicate a fighter set to intercept.

I think the red and green colours are better, as they are nearly self explaining by the parallel to a trafic light:

Green: This land unit can roll into combat in the neighbouring tiles.
Red: This unit cannot roll into combat in a neighbouring tile.
Blue: As interception indicator for fighter planes makes sense.

Additional informations about used unit movement points in my eyes are not needed. When you are looking at all those screenshots you can see, that this information is still contained in the same line of unit information. Per example the last two entries in post 1973 of this thread about the stats of the 6th tank regiment (8.5.2/3) show, that this unit still has two of its three movement points left (2/3). Why should this information be doubled, especially when it is in the same line ?

It should be taken into consideration, that the genius is usually simple.

 

[Erlend Philip Wood]

I think the red and green colours are better, as they are nearly self explaining by the parallel to a trafic light:

Green: This land unit can roll into combat in the neighbouring tiles.
Red: This unit cannot roll into combat in a neighbouring tile.
Blue: As interception indicator for fighter planes makes sense.

If you just compare "attack" or "not attack" to a traffic light, green and red makes sense to most people. But then red would also mean that a unit can move (but not attack). Otherwise it would be grey. That doesn't make as much sense. Red on a traffic light means "Stop!" or "Don't move!". There are no blue or grey lamps on a traffic light either. And yellow is missing. So I mostly agree with Flintlock's thoughts on the matter, even though I was the one to originally propose using colored LED lamps and a traffic light model.

How about red for units that can still attack and white for ones that can't? I feel like if we use red/yellow/green then those colors must represent moves remaining since they're already so closely associated with movement, so it's better to use different colors. Then remaining moves could be indicated through the brightness of the LEDs: fully bright for unmoved units, dimmed for moved but not exhausted units, and off for units that have no remaining moves. As before, blue would indicate a fighter set to intercept.

I agree that showing partial movement is not important. As a player, you just need to know: A.) which units can attack, and B.) which units can move. How much they can move is not important; like you said, for most units (but not aircraft, though) you can just read how much movement is left. I think most of us agree on some basic principles by now, using 6x6 LED lamps, and blue for air superiority. It's mostly the choice of other colors we are debating. I think I favor Flintlock's red/white/grey/blue model by now, but I generally think any of the models debated would be a significant improvement. I assume Flintlock would make the icon graphics easy to modify anyway, so anyone can change them for their own mods if they please.

 

[Civinator]

If you just compare "attack" or "not attack" to a traffic light, green and red makes sense to most people. But then red would also mean that a unit can move (but not attack). Otherwise it would be grey. That doesn't make as much sense. Red on a traffic light means "Stop!" or "Don't move!". There are no blue or grey lamps on a traffic light either. And yellow is missing. So I mostly agree with Flintlock's thoughts on the matter, even though I was the one to originally propose using colored LED lamps and a traffic light model.

As posted, if a unit can still move (and how much MV points are left) is indicated by the unit stats in the same line of the pop-up window and to double this notice in the same line is not needed and completely superfluos. The additional LED make only sense to show if the unit still can attack (= roll into combat - not rolling in normal traffic) and the special case of air fighters.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

EPW no-sword variant.

Brighten the yellow and maybe the blue and I think it'd be perfect.

Though just to complicate everything some more: How legible are these for the colourblind?

 

[Chalito]

"If the swords are omitted, the LED indicators could possibly be made larger. Regarding colors, I think the better option would be to give the units that cannot move a red LED, and the ones that can move a yellow LED. Yellow could mean any degree of movement, including full movement (for non-combat units), as long as they cannot attack. Green just means they could attack, even if some movement has already been spent.

For example, if you stack bombard with a group of Radar Artillery, they will all spend their attack (and thereby 1 movement point). But the yellow LED would indicate they are still available to be moved afterwards.

Original proposal:

The benefit of keeping the sword, on the other hand, would be that all the LED lamps mean the same thing as on the map. The feedback would be more intuitive, and also more accurate."

Am I interpreting this correctly... If so, isn't your Red Light the same as the unit being greyed out right now?

EPW Proposal:
Red = Cannot move and thus cannot attack.
Yellow = Can move, but cannot attack.
Green = Can move and can attack.

Civinator Proposal:
Red = Cannot attack
Green = Can attack