[RD] Canadian federal election 2019: Voting day is October 21.

[Imaus]

NDP got wrecked. Odd.

Liberals hanging on by a thread - that writing's been on the wall for the last two years or so. Provincial outlooks do relfect nationally sometimes. Trudeau needs to have an achievement somewhere - and quick.

But at least the Cons didn't win.

 

[Mouthwash]

They won the popular vote

I await the lamentations for the death of democracy in Canada. Should be coming any day now.

 

[Synobun]

That attempt at mockery would land better if you vetted the audience before trying it.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

That attempt at mockery would land better if you vetted the audience before trying it.

Was it mockery? I couldn't understand it.

 

[Arwon]

They won the popular vote, so don't be too glad. We are just teetering on the edge.

I mean, they got a bare plurality of it, but 34% vs 33% is pretty meaningless. The Liberals, NDP and Greens had 55% between them, the Bloc had another 8%.

 

[Synobun]

I mean, they got a bare plurality of it, but 34% vs 33% is pretty meaningless. The Liberals, NDP and Greens had 55% between them, the Bloc had another 8%.

It becomes more disconcerting with the gains/losses chart.

 

[Arwon]

Well yeah, but that's because first past the post is really stupid and random. The Tories doing disproportionately well in a system rigged in their favour shouldn't be a massive surprise.

(incidentally, 7% for the Greens is a stonking good result in a broken electoral system that actively punishes people who vote for minor parties)

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

(incidentally, 7% for the Greens is a stonking good result in a broken electoral system that actively punishes people who vote for minor parties)

It's frustrating to want to vote for a minor party but you don't because you know your vote will be wasted. And then this leads to a self-defeating cycle.

 

[Arwon]

It's frustrating to want to vote for a minor party but you don't because you know your vote will be wasted. And then this leads to a self-defeating cycle.

That's the single worst thing about FPTP - we can talk about the perverse disproportionate outcomes in results, people winning with 30% of the votes even though 60% of their electorate would want anyone else, the tendency towards duopoly, and the over-privileging of geographically concentrated constituencies over dispersed ones and all that.

But the simple fact that people are forced to cast votes other than by expressing their genuine preference is the worst thing about it. It's anti-democratic at that individual level, imposing a painful dilemma on every voter. It also means we can't trust that the information voters are giving via their votes is actually real.

 

[Arwon]

Here's some good examples of clearly the wrong candidate winning

I think it's also possible that Federicton here could elect the Liberal in any sort of runoff system, which also illustrates the problems with preference systems when there's 3 similarly placed candidates. The Green beats the Conservative and the Liberal probably beats both of them if it's them in the final 2, so it depends who the final two candidates in the runoff count are. I think with these specific figures the Libs would struggle to catch the Tories and get into the final 2, but if they did, they'd win.

Really needs proportional representation to fully reflect a community like this, otherwise it'll tend to default to the centrists:

 

[Bootstoots]

Well yeah, but that's because first past the post is really stupid and random. The Tories doing disproportionately well in a system rigged in their favour shouldn't be a massive surprise.

(incidentally, 7% for the Greens is a stonking good result in a broken electoral system that actively punishes people who vote for minor parties)

It's actually kind of surprising to me that both Canada and the UK have a third national party that routinely wins seats at all.

 

[Lexicus]

Accurate?

 

[Synobun]

I don't watch Simpsons.

I saw a graphic earlier that said 60% of votes here in Vancouver didn't count due to FPTP. Not great.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

My riding got a FPTP result too. Our elected candidate got around 36% of votes.

 

[shadowplay]

Accurate?

I'd replace old man yells at cloud with Cletus, but that's pretty close.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Yeah, we America'd ourselves. At least our winner is the "Hurts People By Accident" party and not the "Hurts People On Purpose" party. I guess.

We need electoral reform. We're not gonna get it. But I think more worrisome is that the Liberals only just barely prevented a total Conservative swing.

My building manager was complaining today that "Alberta has no representation in government." Well, when every riding but one clings to the Reformacons, what do they expect? This isn't the first time this has happened.

There's been a suggestion that one of Alberta's senators could be appointed to represent Alberta, as part of the cabinet (it's allowed to have senators as cabinet ministers). The problem is that several years ago Trudeau made all Liberal senators independent... and I doubt any of our senators were ever Liberal in the first place.

Then there's a suggestion that the lone NDP MP could be appointed to a "prominent Cabinet portfolio". That idea would fly about as well as the suggestion in 2015 that Trudeau appoint Elizabeth May to the Environment portfolio... as in it wouldn't. She replied with a diplomatic and gracious "thank you, but no, because I would feel obligated to support their policies that I don't agree with".

There's talk about who will be Speaker, and somebody suggested Jody Wilson-Raybould. Yikes. It's not usual for the Speaker to be someone not in the governing party, but it has happened. Just don't let it be her. Let her sit in her little corner and keep quiet.

People are busy celebrating that the Conservatives "didn't win" and that Maxime Bernier got kicked out the door before he ever got into the room, too busy to realize that we are kinda screwed during the next election. Alberta and Ontario will continue dismantling everything and Trudeau will be on the burner until he inevitably gets a vote of no confidence (or just barely hangs on until the next election). A provincial and federal Conservative sweep next cycle will outright push us back by over a dozen ranks in all social and economic metrics.

It's too bad Trudeau doesn't have the diplomatic abilities of Lester B. Pearson. So many social advances were accomplished during his minority government in the '60s that we take for granted now and would consider it unthinkable to dismantle.

The panelists on CBC have pointed out that we don't need to worry about a new election for awhile yet, as NDP is highly motivated not to trigger a new one. Basically their party is next to flat broke, so they couldn't possibly afford another election any time soon.

I really hope you guys kick Trump out and make way for the new Democrats. That string getting plucked would reverberate up here just in time for the next election, I hope. Our Bernier/Scheer supporters are also Trump 2020 supporters. A blow to American right-wing authoritarianism and regression is a blow to the equivalent up here.

Agreed. It's revolting to see how many Trump supporters there are on the comment boards on my news site.

It's frustrating to want to vote for a minor party but you don't because you know your vote will be wasted. And then this leads to a self-defeating cycle.

I voted my conscience this time because it honestly doesn't matter. My riding has been represented for many years by a succession of useless backbenchers who have accomplished precisely nothing for anyone not on their list of loyal Reformacon supporters.

When the anthem was changed, my MP pontificated that "everyone" in his riding was against it. I wrote to him and told him not to speak for me - because I was sick and tired of an anthem that refused to acknowledge that Canadian women are patriotic, and the misogynist attitude of his party and its supporters was sickening (no surprise when I didn't get a reply).

All this said, however... of course change won't happen if people don't make a conscious decision to actually vote for who they really want. If enough people do this, change can happen. I don't consider my vote wasted, even though it didn't go to the jerk who won, and nobody here had any realistic chance of defeating him.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

The misleading robocalls were apparently made by a third-party organization called Canada Strong and Proud. (warning: paywall)

Their official website has some vague fluff:

Canada. Strong. And. Proud.

At Canada Strong And Proud we are, as you can imagine, proud to be Canadians. Some of us come from families that have been in Canada since before it was Canada, others came here as immigrants. We are all living the Canadian dream.

As grassroots Canadians we love our country but we don't always think it is heading in the right direction. When that happens we will speak out in favour of course corrections. We believe that Canadians should be proud of our past. We were not perfect in the past, but we were usually at the leading edge of making the world better, more prosperous, more equal, more moral and more noble.

We are proud of those accomplishments and we don't measure the Canadians of the past with today's values.

We are determined to learn from the mistakes of the past and not repeat those. All types of mistakes. Whether made by Canadians or others. Especially the mistakes of chasing utopian totalitarian visions that stomped on peoples rights and destroyed peoples lives. We also believe that Canada should be strong.

A strong Canada recognizes and values diversity. Be it the diversity of our citizens or the diversity of our provinces and their unique ways of looking for solutions that improve the lives of Canadians. We will speak up for a strong Canada which is always strengthened by accepting that different parts of our country have different attitudes but that we are all strengthened when we respect each other and agree to work together for our common prosperity.

We hope you enjoy our efforts at making Canada stronger and giving you ever more reason to be proud of Canada.

Okay, lets find their facebook page. The link from the official site didn't work, so I googled it, and...

Canada Proud. 159K likes. Proud Canadians working to defeat Trudeau.

Okkkkkkay. And I went onto it (I feel filthy) and it's all anti-Trudeau memes. Granted, I'm not entirely sure if it's actually their page (due to the slight differences in title), but....

 

[Mouthwash]

That attempt at mockery would land better if you vetted the audience before trying it.

Eh?

 

[innonimatu]

It's actually kind of surprising to me that both Canada and the UK have a third national party that routinely wins seats at all.

It is, but there is a noticeable trend towards political increased fragmentation all around the world, even in FPTP systems. Don't be surprised if it eventually reaches the US.

 

[Dekker]

It is, but there is a noticeable trend towards political increased fragmentation all around the world, even in FPTP systems. Don't be surprised if it eventually reaches the US.

I don't get how that would be a bad thing. Sure the NDP will never take power but at least now the Liberals will be more careful with their actions, should be less SNC Lavellins going on under more scrutiny.