Carthage, are they an effective civ?

[Louis8k8]

Carthage is definitely one of the most *fun* civs from G+K. I haven't quite made some significant strategic use out of their civ in player vs player or vs Immortal/Emperor AI. Harbor is nice but I don't like mass-expanding. Moving over mountains is slightly dangerous and very situational.

Elephants are nice and all but every civ has their UU's.

Dido is quite hot relatively to other leaders. Darius is hotter with dat beard of his.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

Is there something about Carthage's start bias that prevents sea/water resources? I want to do a Large Islands map and start on the coast with some sea resources (crab/fish/whale). But in 20+ map rerolls, I've started on the coast every single time but have never rolled a map with more than a single fish in range. Am I doing something wrong or is it impossible to roll a map like I'm describing?

Not sure what their bias may be. You could always try legendary start.

 

[Calouste]

Is there something about Carthage's start bias that prevents sea/water resources? I want to do a Large Islands map and start on the coast with some sea resources (crab/fish/whale). But in 20+ map rerolls, I've started on the coast every single time but have never rolled a map with more than a single fish in range. Am I doing something wrong or is it impossible to roll a map like I'm describing?

I don't think it is impossible, but I have seen a lot of coastal starts without sea resources as well, and IMO coastal starts should have more of a bias towards sea resources at the cost of land resources. If you don't have sea resources at a coastal start, you are usually better off moving 2 or three tiles inland, you'll still get the most of the same resources as in your original location, plus a bunch of tiles you can actually work instead of water.

 

[MantaRevan]

They're a good Wide civ for water maps if you want to try that out, Carthage with Order and Liberty is pretty strong, and they're one of the only civs in the game that can make any use of Exploration. If you get the policy that gives +3 and the one from liberty with +1 then all of your new cities basically start with 5 right off the bat.

 

[redwings1340]

I like Carthage, but it seems you can't get the trade network from the free harbor unless you have The Wheel. Which is %(*^ing stupid--you can't trade along the coast until you can get the wheel? Huh?

That really burned me the first time I played as Carthage. I spent half the game before researching this tech, and did not understand why my trade routes weren't functioning...

 

[holywar]

I love founding cities in mountains!

Now that's hot. I wonder if the units garrisoned inside the city take hit points.

 

[njmfff]

Carthage is not going to be special for domination

except guys that jump over mountains. Sneak attack. It's like having paratrooper in ancient\classical era. Only workers tend to die on automated mode, since they love getting stuck in the mountains.

 

[BUDISMYBUDDY]

I love founding cities in mountains!

? you can found a city on a mountain??

 

[Browd]

Amidst mountains, but not on a mountain.

 

[jasper]

wasn't carthage in north Africa? so should dido be black? or I think it was middle eastern so she should be tanned right?

 

[compwiz1202]

That really burned me the first time I played as Carthage. I spent half the game before researching this tech, and did not understand why my trade routes weren't functioning...

Seems funny it contradicts itself too, whereas you can get sea connections with The Wheel but no Sailing. They should make that an exception for Carthage to require Sailing instead of The Wheel.

 

[Blitz Spearman]

wasn't carthage in north Africa? so should dido be black? or I think it was middle eastern so she should be tanned right?

Yes, Carthage was in North Africa. So is Morrocco. People from Northern Africa are not black. Zinedine Zidane was born in Algeria, also in Northern Africa, and look at his skin colour. But anyway, if you play as Dido and read her introduction in the game, you will see that her origins are in the Phoenician royalty (hence the UA's name), and Phoenicia was indeed in Middle East, but it was mostly in the area of modern-day Lebanon. People from modern-day Lebanon are quite pale (my girlfriend comes from a family of Lebanese immigrants), they look more like people from southern European countries like Portugal. Dido's appearance is accurate with her supposed origins.

 

[Hpuk]

This thread was made before BNW, I think it's worth mentioning that the changes to the SP tree helped Carthage a lot. Exploration giving earlier access to the +3 hammers for coastal cities, when it used to be a third tier policy in the commerce tree. Naval tradition is +1 happiness for every lighthouse, harbor and seaport, better than the old Order opener for Dido.

The stupid Elephant is still the worst UU in the game though, 0,14 per , when the Horseman is 0,16 not to mention horsemen have 1 more movement. The unique promotions are nowhere near enough to make up for that, especially when they lose the feared promotion when upgraded.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

Forget the Island maps...try Carthage on a Highlands maps with mountain ridges and seas and glory in the mountain pass ability. Scouts (no doubt upgraded to archers) rule the early game as you discover goodie hut after goodie hut, farm barbs and camps without hindrance...discover the map and CS before all others. Best of all you can place your civ in a nice harbored cove surrounded by mountain ranges that only you can freely move through to your eventual conquests.

 

[Memoryjar]

Forget the Island maps...try Carthage on a Highlands maps with mountain ridges and seas and glory in the mountain pass ability. Scouts (no doubt upgraded to archers) rule the early game as you discover goodie hut after goodie hut, farm barbs and camps without hindrance...discover the map and CS before all others. Best of all you can place your civ in a nice harbored cove surrounded by mountain ranges that only you can freely move through to your eventual conquests.

 

[George Abitbol]

I played Carthage first time in G&K, it was fun! I didn't tried again with BNW, but it should be my new game. Has Carthage been buffed with the new harbor mechanic? Now the ligthouse provides the +1 production from sea resources. Still, I can catch the GL (Colossus is harder, I'm always beaten by the AI by 1-3 turns...)

I'd like to try on Continents, it's my favorite map, and I get quicly bored with Archipelago and Small continents. Though I wish there were more small islands on this kind of maps. Maybe a mix between Terra and Continents (two or three main landmass and one small "virgin" contient) could be interesting to play.

I don't know if the glitch with the free harbors that not appear has been fixed.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I've been nonplussed about Carthage in BNW. The harbor thing is not significantly useful. It's hit or miss about whether you can trade with other civs in the early game via ocean. The Exploration and Liberty trees work nicely with the harbors, but Exploration and Liberty aren't as desirable to most players as Tradition and Rationalism.

Early combat and especially early sea combat doesn't happen much, so your UUs are mostly used against barbarians. The mountain crossing ability is a trivial novelty on normal maps.

I would consider Carthage to be a lower mid-tier civ. It's not the best nor the worst and slightly less than average.

 

[isau]

Carthage is great on the main map I play, Small Continents Plus from the Scrambled Continents map pack. Harbors were slightly nerfed in BNW but the Exploration tree policy that gives +1 Happy per Harbor (and lighthouse and seaport) is really handy for going wide. Harbors could stand to be a bit better but they aren't terrible.

FWIW the free harbor bonus also applies to conquered cities and this is where I find it especially useful. When you take an enemy city on the coast it is always instantly connected to your network, and with the Exploration policy you get 1 less unhappiness (at a minimum) which can add up if you take a bunch of cities rapidly.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Carthage would be awesome if the UA was updated to give free lighthouses instead. Their strength was solving the problem of having to produce buildings in order to have the hammers to produce buildings that coastal starts entail. The harbor is really only particularly useful in your first few cities.

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

I love the type of civs that "break the rules". Carthage is the civ that says "What,s that, one cannot cross mountains on foot? We get to do that, we're that special"

Same with Denmark. They break the "Lose all movement on disembark" rule, and they can really throw you off guard when you're not expecting it.

Very sad thing Harbours lost the +1 production from sea resources, but it's still a good building, and combined with the Quinqueremes, you're most likely ot have cleaned the seas from naval barbarians to secure trade routes.

I see Carthage as a somewhat economical civ with a special taste for war and science.