Case for playable Portugal

[Tigranes]

Now... I know many of you guys don't like what you see, but I really want to ask edead at least consider playable Portugal. Now with the URVs in, any civ which was not playable because of UHV issues can be reconsidered. But Portugal is really essential in many aspects:

1. After fall of Constantinople in 1453 Islam was virtually won a Religious victory in a Middle east and on the larger SoI map. Portugal was the first adversary that challenged Dar al Islam,since the days of crusaders. New era has began -- the era of European discoveries and colonialism. It is very exciting to play these new naval "crusaders"

2. Unlike the Colonization of West Indies mounting European presence in East Indies is not covered prominently by any existing mod. Portuguese "conquistadors" are not featured the way they deserve. If you think about it -- unlike "naive" and gunpowder free Native Americans, tiny Portugal was facing very developed societies. Spain conquered lands, Portugal conquered seas (and occasional ports ). Stories of 6 Indian Armadas can be read like a smaller version of conquest of Americas. Captain Diogo Dias' misadventures reminded me the story Robinson Crusoe. If you ask me European arrival to the South and South Easter Asia deserves a separate RFC mod . But I just have one humble wish -- lets polish Portuguese to include them with the next release.

I know all the objections and I expect them, but my game experience with Portugal (I did 6 runs) will help me to to defend that this can be done. Every civ that has strong unique identity deserves to be playable, it just requires some creative approach to make things work.

First of all even with unofficial power of Indian Armadas winning by Portugal is not a cakewalk even on Sultan. One of my games Oman sunk 3 of my ships before I was able to start the game! In my last game (the one I won via URV) I had to wage really epic wars against Fatimids and Ottomans, killing no less than 200+ units.

The entire game was very unusual SoI experienced and felt like a mission: my fleet with the Relics I traded from Ottomans and Fatimids sailed to Red Sea (Portuguese under Estêvão da Gama (first son of Vasco da Gama) in real history attacked the Ottoman fleet near Suez Harbor). Fatimids converted to Sunni Islam, discovered an iron near Cairo, and were a Giant. Far ahead in techs and all the possible Wonders in Cairo (including the Bridge). They sent no less than 80 Heavy Spearmen against my landing party in Aqaba, just what my Heavy Infantry needs. When I finally made it to Jerusalem I could not settle Relics , without the help of Worldbuilder that is:

Spoiler :

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Thankfully, Ottomans declared on Fatimids and their Karaman and Cilician vassals and our combined effort collapsed the Green Giant. But then Ottomans declared on me, and Dead Sea became a Sea of Dead:

Spoiler :

 

[Bluebags]

One little flaw in the argument here is that the Portuguese were never crusading (and never would), they were colonising to build their trade empire. The conflicts they (and the British) fought were never wars of religion as by this time the papacy had really begun to lose control of the kingdoms in Christendom. The concept of "crusades" against Islam and/or the holy lands was dead and buried almost as soon as the last crusader state was removed from the Levant. It was only in the 20th century really that those old ideas were dug up and caused the havoc we see today.

 

[Tigranes]

One little flaw in the argument here is that the Portuguese were never crusading (and never would), they were colonising to build their trade empire. The conflicts they (and the British) fought were never wars of religion as by this time the papacy had really begun to lose control of the kingdoms in Christendom. The concept of "crusades" against Islam and/or the holy lands was dead and buried almost as soon as the last crusader state was removed from the Levant. It was only in the 20th century really that those old ideas were dug up and caused the havoc we see today.

Very true, I was using quotes when talked about naval "crusaders". From Muslim point of view any attack on Dar al-Islam is a crusading activity, regardless of the reason, they call Americans "crusaders". It is still a matter of debate what was the main reason behind actual Crusades. On the other hand faith was important tool in hands of Portuguese, who claimed the right to colonize their part of globe by the virtue of Papal decision in Tordesillas.

 

[Feyaria]

I think you need catholic religion in Jerusalem to seetle the relics.

 

[Tigranes]

Jerusalem is a Holy city for Catholics

 

[embryodead]

No, sorry, but in my opinion it doesn't fit the mod at all. It's more of an "impossible fiction" that "really essential". Feel free to make a modmod of it though.

There's another previously-unplayable civ that is now playable (on SVN this weekend).

 

[BenZL43]

Malwa?

 

[stolenrays]

Embryo, I know it is a lot of work, but there is a compromise. Perhaps a scenerior of SOI: Europe/North Africa, which encompasses those conquests of the Islamic Golden Age?

 

[embryodead]

Embryo, I know it is a lot of work, but there is a compromise. Perhaps a scenerior of SOI: Europe/North Africa, which encompasses those conquests of the Islamic Golden Age?

Well, if someone wants to do it, SoI now allows easy modification/sustitution of maps

I'm not not going to for sure. I don't think that scenario would be that much fun tbh (because of the scale - but I don't like games when I control 1/3 of the map and have to manage 30 cities and 300 units). Same as the conquest of SoI's map. Later periods are better, but RFCE (RFCE++) is a better starting point. But it's also because after SoI 1.0 I have another mod to finish & release, in a completely different part of the world

 

[rrosen]

Now you've piqued my curiosity. Looking forward to it!

 

[srpt]

sorry to be a language cop, but its "piqued". weird I know but its true.

and sorry for the double post

 

[srpt]

sorry to be a language cop, but its "piqued". weird I know but its true.

as for "alt-SoI" mods, I have 3 in mind:
1. the Shias won the civil war, shia alids (aliids?), replacing the abbasids, attempt to eradicate sunnism
2. the Samanids reject islam and try to reinstate zoroastrianism
3. Gandharan revival: ghorids replaced by local buddhist rebels

 

[Bluebags]

Well, if someone wants to do it, SoI now allows easy modification/sustitution of maps

Sweet, if only I had the time (and skills, but mostly time) I would love to try to put together a Reconquista version of SoI. The Iberian peninsula is the one thing SoI is missing, but it obviously would play better as smaller spin-off than an expanded map.

 

[Pewp3w]

Is there an easy way to make portugal playable for myself? I guess i have to change something in a file, right?

 

[Tigranes]

You can easily make them playable by changing one flag in the original 750 AD save file, found in your Public Maps folder. For some strange reason you would not be able to settle Relics, though

 

[Pewp3w]

Where exactly can i find it?
In the Public Maps folder there is no such file.
and in the mod folder under private maps is a savegame, but it contains no information regarding portugal, leave alone any country.

edit: nvm. i found it.

 

[Tigranes]

Wow, you found it so fast the system din't show you edited your post!

 

[Pewp3w]

Wow, you found it so fast the system din't show you edited your post!

Yeah, it's a bit annoying that i have to add all technologies via worldbuilder. But i had a great game, just like you. I don't really understand why they are not playable, but the same goes for most countries that are not playable.

 

[Tigranes]

You really didn't need to add all those techs yourself Just wait for your 2nd turn and techs and civic will be adjusted as they should be.

Also post your game here, perhaps we could create a popular movement!

 

[zodmaner]

[snip]

There's another previously-unplayable civ that is now playable (on SVN this weekend).

Really? That's great news! Thank you embryo. I'm updating my local copy right now.

Regarding Portugal, I kinda agree with embryo here that it would be more suitable for the faction to be added via a modmod.
It help preserves the focus of the original mod as well as gives more freedom in making Portugal fun to play.