Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Toffer90]

Khm, what is "Minimize AI Turns"? Its in the options?

It's on the first page of the BUG options, the green mantis head icon button close to the treasury.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The AI is better than it used to be though. On my latest game one of them actually has more cities than I have and is right with me in tech. They are much better now with expansion and better with defense. The one area of the AI that still needs work is how to wage war. If they could wage war effectively many of us would start finishing farther down the scoreboard or might actually get wiped out. As it is I have had to drop 2 levels of difficulty, down to noble. I ought to go back up 1 level and just see what happens.

No you actually need to play at Emperor or Immortal and then se how the AI is doing.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Advise me what to do: I can't go beyond the era of nanotechnology, the game is terribly slow (the move lasts longer than a minute). I use version 43, play at the fastest speed, space map: duel, video card 2050, 16 GB of RAM

LO Sorry I had to laugh it was only a few years ago that a turn with only 8 AI in the game in Med Era would take 5 minutes or longer!
Your video card is not your problem even with Standard v 43.
Questions: in Nano Era How many Cities are on that Deul map? What is their Sizes? How many Units both worker and Military are on the map.
You can't go past nano era because it's slow? Or the game stops working?
Details Please are a Must to solve problems, even perception problems.
This Is a Turn based game based on 2006 Code. 1 minute turn end wait near end of game Is actually really good!

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'd love a video 'let's play' from you

I just don't have the time to do that anymore. I should've thought to do 1 several years ago. But it never crossed my mind.

I have a list of Honey Dos that is as long as my arm nowadays! Example Friday and Saturday work in yard now that snow has melted:
Friday cut down broken limbs from 3 Big Pine trees from our heavy snowstorm back on the 11th of January. Some still attached others on ground, with chainsaw. Cut out dead center of massive lilac Bush/tree! Lots of thorns around it too! Separate logs for firewood from main limbs cut up from left over small limbs.
Saturday drag branches and debris to burn pit down by Creek bank. Haul 2 loads of Firewood to house unload and stack. 1 Load had to be split by axe. Pick up 3 wheelbarrow loads of cut up Firewood and haul to big shed for drying, stack. Use P/U to haul several loads of fair sized branches to Burn pit area and dump off (too small to chainsaw up but too big to drag by hand). This was just the afternoon chores as it was.
Sunday go to Church then REST!
Who said Retirement was all Play??

 

[Korbin]

LO Sorry I had to laugh it was only a few years ago that a turn with only 8 AI in the game in Med Era would take 5 minutes or longer!
Your video card is not your problem even with Standard v 43.
Questions: in Nano Era How many Cities are on that Deul map? What is their Sizes? How many Units both worker and Military are on the map.
You can't go past nano era because it's slow? Or the game stops working?
Details Please are a Must to solve problems, even perception problems.
This Is a Turn based game based on 2006 Code. 1 minute turn end wait near end of game Is actually really good!

In that game, I had 25 cities, and the AI had about 18-20. The population in the largest 100+

"This Is a Turn based game based on 2006 Code. 1 minute turn end wait near end of game Is actually really good!"
But nano era isnt the end of game, in tech tree nano era its a mid of game

"LO Sorry I had to laugh it was only a few years ago that a turn with only 8 AI in the game in Med Era would take 5 minutes or longer!"

Okeeeey, I'm just happy that now the turn only lasts more than a minute, and not five. Now I'll go and buy a second monitor. On the first one I'll play the game, and watch One Piece on the second! I'll have time to watch all the episodes by the end of the game!)))

 

[Somebody613]

In that game, I had 25 cities, and the AI had about 18-20. The population in the largest 100+

"This Is a Turn based game based on 2006 Code. 1 minute turn end wait near end of game Is actually really good!"
But nano era isnt the end of game, in tech tree nano era its a mid of game

"LO Sorry I had to laugh it was only a few years ago that a turn with only 8 AI in the game in Med Era would take 5 minutes or longer!"

Okeeeey, I'm just happy that now the turn only lasts more than a minute, and not five. Now I'll go and buy a second monitor. On the first one I'll play the game, and watch One Piece on the second! I'll have time to watch all the episodes by the end of the game!)))

I often run a Youtube playlist in the background, if I really want to play a slow game.
Watching something during gameplay, though, sounds kinda counter-productive - you'll be wasting a lot of "unused" time between turns, OR won't enjoy watching the video so jerkishly.
Just saying, lol.

 

[ranagrande]

A few versions and one computer ago, I used to regularly have turn times over ten minutes. I'd read books in between turns while I played.

This was also back when it would take almost an hour to load the game.

 

[Korbin]

A few versions and one computer ago, I used to regularly have turn times over ten minutes. I'd read books in between turns while I played.

This was also back when it would take almost an hour to load the game.

Man, you real Gigachad, but I'm not ready to make such sacrifices.

 

[lobosan]

A few versions and one computer ago, I used to regularly have turn times over ten minutes. I'd read books in between turns while I played.

I thought I bought this awesome computer for Starfield and Cyberpunk 2077 but the i9 CPU and SSD are really only good for fast C2C turn times

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just don't have the time to do that anymore. I should've thought to do 1 several years ago. But it never crossed my mind.

I have a list of Honey Dos that is as long as my arm nowadays! Example Friday and Saturday work in yard now that snow has melted:
Friday cut down broken limbs from 3 Big Pine trees from our heavy snowstorm back on the 11th of January. Some still attached others on ground, with chainsaw. Cut out dead center of massive lilac Bush/tree! Lots of thorns around it too! Separate logs for firewood from main limbs cut up from left over small limbs.
Saturday drag branches and debris to burn pit down by Creek bank. Haul 2 loads of Firewood to house unload and stack. 1 Load had to be split by axe. Pick up 3 wheelbarrow loads of cut up Firewood and haul to big shed for drying, stack. Use P/U to haul several loads of fair sized branches to Burn pit area and dump off (too small to chainsaw up but too big to drag by hand). This was just the afternoon chores as it was.
Sunday go to Church then REST!
Who said Retirement was all Play??

lol... yeah mine has been giving up and tiling the kitchen without me the last few days lol Isn't it amazing though how much sleep one needs as one ages? Amazing the sleepy attacks that I can get late in the afternoon... You're a LOT more active than me though. Which is good... keeps ya healthy I s'pose.

 

[Thunderbrd]

A few versions and one computer ago, I used to regularly have turn times over ten minutes. I'd read books in between turns while I played.

This was also back when it would take almost an hour to load the game.

Yeah, at least 15-20 min at best to load the game in the early days of the mod. Easy 5 min turns and not far in either.

 

[Toffer90]

Yeah, at least 15-20 min at best to load the game in the early days of the mod. Easy 5 min turns and not far in either.

I think it was mainly caused by us having all art as loose files (for easy modding access I guess), rather than packing them in compressed fpk archives which the exe loads way faster.

 

[tramwajg]

I remember those turn times! it began as early as medieval era, I occasionally played two games at once, or had pdf/other website to read haha
hmm maybe it could be hardware? mine's ahead of above (16-core, 64gb ram, rtx 3090) and I was able to play eternity speed transcendent era on snofru large space map, but I don't know which parts of hardware could affect it, if any. Also game was running much better after closing and reopening, gradually getting worse, occasionally trying to reload save would cause "memory allocation failure", game would close, and after reopening it would run much faster.

E: I also remember almost unplayably slow city queues in late game each click would cause whole queue to reload, which itself was way slower than is nowadays, and would happen much more often. There were only 2 rows of objects visible at a time, it needed so much scrolling, time spent in city screens was like dozens of times longer. Someone made awesome work making production choices lists dynamic and with more entities visible at once

 

[Somebody613]

I remember those turn times! it began as early as medieval era, I occasionally played two games at once, or had pdf/other website to read haha
hmm maybe it could be hardware? mine's ahead of above (16-core, 64gb ram, rtx 3090) and I was able to play eternity speed transcendent era on snofru large space map, but I don't know which parts of hardware could affect it, if any. Also game was running much better after closing and reopening, gradually getting worse, occasionally trying to reload save would cause "memory allocation failure", game would close, and after reopening it would run much faster.

E: I also remember almost unplayably slow city queues in late game each click would cause whole queue to reload, which itself was way slower than is nowadays, and would happen much more often. There were only 2 rows of objects visible at a time, it needed so much scrolling, time spent in city screens was like dozens of times longer. Someone made awesome work making production choices lists dynamic and with more entities visible at once

There's only one thing I'm missing from the vanilla city UI, though it still worked jerkishly: The list of buildable objects could be quick-clicked without moving your mouse 1000 times.
Given how I tend to play on Ultrafast more often than not, it's beyond annoying to click through the entire roster of buildings in a NEW city - it makes my hand hurt, lol.
The original mechanic would just "drop" the next building under my mouse automatically - though, yeah, the process itself was stupidly slow.
So the best would've been to combine "object dropping" with "fast reaction", eh.

 

[tramwajg]

true, for this reason I try to stop founding/conquering new cities around renaissance-industrial (when large chains of buildings start to appear), and I try to only construct buildings using alt-click (it only allows to add to queue something that's not constructed in capital, and it won't add buildings that haven't their prerequisities done yet, it could work better, but is still more comfortable than tracking every city automatically), in very late game I use auto governor. Sometimes I demolish in capital something that I want to have constructed everywhere, and then I use alt-click to add it to queue in each city, it still has disadvantage though (if some cities contain this building somewhere in middle of queue, it won't be moved ahead, and it may be hundreds of turns)

 

[Somebody613]

true, for this reason I try to stop founding/conquering new cities around renaissance-industrial (when large chains of buildings start to appear), and I try to only construct buildings using alt-click (it only allows to add to queue something that's not constructed in capital, and it won't add buildings that haven't their prerequisities done yet, it could work better, but is still more comfortable than tracking every city automatically), in very late game I use auto governor. Sometimes I demolish in capital something that I want to have constructed everywhere, and then I use alt-click to add it to queue in each city, it still has disadvantage though (if some cities contain this building somewhere in middle of queue, it won't be moved ahead, and it may be hundreds of turns)

I usually "designate" a certain amount of cities to "micromanagement", and if I go over that number - I just leave them with Research or Culture as their only task, lol.
They still grow in size, cover more cultural area, provide more trade revenue, but it's ANNOYING to actually manage them with this "click 50 buildings by MOVING YOUR HAND 50 times" hell.
And what's worse, SOME buildings (not ONLY "explicitly religious") actually still have this "refresh the UI" feature, often with ANNOYING results like me having to MOVE MY HAND MORE.
As in, I "fast click" through a row of buildings (much easier than to SLOOOWLY click each of them "targeted") - but then the row "jumps away" because ONE building wants to REFRESH.
So ANNOYING, especially the fact that it's so RANDOM (not that I can't memorize the "deviant" buildings, but that their "refresh function" comes with zero reason behind it in the first place).
I totally VOTE for a "build EVERYTHING in the current UI from left to right (or in some other chooseable predefined order)" BUTTON.
Because THAT would ease the micromanagement by about 99% (just select a type of buildings and tell the city to build them ALL).
And, yes, I've been laughed at for "building EVERYTHING indiscriminately" - but that's MY choice, OKAY?
Anyways...
MODS, GUYS, PRETTY PLEASE, EH???!!!

 

[alberts8]

I think it was mainly caused by us having all art as loose files (for easy modding access I guess), rather than packing them in compressed fpk archives which the exe loads way faster.

The biggest part of the loading time where the xml and schema files. The xml data was spread across alot of modules and submodules and subsubmodules. Each of these submodules also contained copies of all the different xml schema files. The xml loading process had to parse hundreds of schema files and additionally it cached all of them in memory. This schema cache was kept in memory forever and back in v26 of caveman2cosmos it consumed ~400 megabytes of ram. No wonder memory allocation failures where that common back then.

 

[tramwajg]

I usually "designate" a certain amount of cities to "micromanagement", and if I go over that number - I just leave them with Research or Culture as their only task, lol.
They still grow in size, cover more cultural area, provide more trade revenue, but it's ANNOYING to actually manage them with this "click 50 buildings by MOVING YOUR HAND 50 times" hell.
And what's worse, SOME buildings (not ONLY "explicitly religious") actually still have this "refresh the UI" feature, often with ANNOYING results like me having to MOVE MY HAND MORE.
As in, I "fast click" through a row of buildings (much easier than to SLOOOWLY click each of them "targeted") - but then the row "jumps away" because ONE building wants to REFRESH.
So ANNOYING, especially the fact that it's so RANDOM (not that I can't memorize the "deviant" buildings, but that their "refresh function" comes with zero reason behind it in the first place).
I totally VOTE for a "build EVERYTHING in the current UI from left to right (or in some other chooseable predefined order)" BUTTON.
Because THAT would ease the micromanagement by about 99% (just select a type of buildings and tell the city to build them ALL).
And, yes, I've been laughed at for "building EVERYTHING indiscriminately" - but that's MY choice, OKAY?
Anyways...
MODS, GUYS, PRETTY PLEASE, EH???!!!

I wish that queues templates from left upper corner were working better occasionally it was helping, but quite often had weird behaviour. Automating city production actually achieves something similar, it should keep building anything until possibilities are almost empty and then it will proceed to culture, wealth, or science, until new research unlocks something new

The biggest part of the loading time where the xml and schema files. The xml data was spread across alot of modules and submodules and subsubmodules. Each of these submodules also contained copies of all the different xml schema files. The xml loading process had to parse hundreds of schema files and additionally it cached all of them in memory. This schema cache was kept in memory forever and back in v26 of caveman2cosmos it consumed ~400 megabytes of ram. No wonder memory allocation failures where that common back then.

oh wow that's crazy and curious to know ;p was it original unmodded civ4 design, or work of first modders? I think rise of mankind was the first base for c2c? even back then, I enjoyed way more techs compared to unmodded version, and there were so fewer of them than now. One of things I miss were realistic modifiers to combat, such as all iron ships had bonuses against wooden ship scaling by their technological level (ironclads would get +50%, pre-dreadnoughts like +100-200% and so on), or all tanks had +300% against melee, +100% against mounted, etc. depending on how much advanced they were in technology

E: since it's ideas thread, I think it could be cool if units had some sort of armor and penetration, like, all bow-type weapons could be less effective against heavy armor units than crossbowman, or early gunpowder units should get severe debuff if attempting to attack armored vehicles (-90%?)

 

[Somebody613]

I wish that queues templates from left upper corner were working better occasionally it was helping, but quite often had weird behaviour. Automating city production actually achieves something similar, it should keep building anything until possibilities are almost empty and then it will proceed to culture, wealth, or science, until new research unlocks something new

oh wow that's crazy and curious to know ;p was it original unmodded civ4 design, or work of first modders? I think rise of mankind was the first base for c2c? even back then, I enjoyed way more techs compared to unmodded version, and there were so fewer of them than now. One of things I miss were realistic modifiers to combat, such as all iron ships had bonuses against wooden ship scaling by their technological level (ironclads would get +50%, pre-dreadnoughts like +100-200% and so on), or all tanks had +300% against melee, +100% against mounted, etc. depending on how much advanced they were in technology

E: since it's ideas thread, I think it could be cool if units had some sort of armor and penetration, like, all bow-type weapons could be less effective against heavy armor units than crossbowman, or early gunpowder units should get severe debuff if attempting to attack armored vehicles (-90%?)

Yeah, except Automated ANYTHING is still ruled by AI, and we know how AI prioritizes 100s of Dogs over a few Merged x27 Swordsmen, so to speak.
Otherwise, sure, I'd let it "auto-build" everything, in cases of cities where I myself plan to build everything anyways.
Except AI won't do it properly, the idiot.

Weapons and Armors are... in the plans for quite some time now - and I'm extremely excited for the year 2030 that it will get implemented... NOT.
Which is sad, because some other mods do have some minimal Equipment functionality, which means it's not only doable, but even has a precedent that can be learned from.
In theory, yeeeah.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I wish that queues templates from left upper corner were working better occasionally it was helping, but quite often had weird behaviour. Automating city production actually achieves something similar, it should keep building anything until possibilities are almost empty and then it will proceed to culture, wealth, or science, until new research unlocks something new



oh wow that's crazy and curious to know ;p was it original unmodded civ4 design, or work of first modders? I think rise of mankind was the first base for c2c? even back then, I enjoyed way more techs compared to unmodded version, and there were so fewer of them than now. One of things I miss were realistic modifiers to combat, such as all iron ships had bonuses against wooden ship scaling by their technological level (ironclads would get +50%, pre-dreadnoughts like +100-200% and so on), or all tanks had +300% against melee, +100% against mounted, etc. depending on how much advanced they were in technology

E: since it's ideas thread, I think it could be cool if units had some sort of armor and penetration, like, all bow-type weapons could be less effective against heavy armor units than crossbowman, or early gunpowder units should get severe debuff if attempting to attack armored vehicles (-90%?)

Your idea has been in dev for years and is a part of what the unit review should finalize. However, some thinking has cause a little hesitation in that differing damage types may need to consider differing armor types for how effective that resistance is against that sort of damage - and I'm not confident anymore that one type of armor/puncture variable is even of any real value and may wish to reprogram the system with more consideration to such variations. Plate mail, for example, is not going to help against electrical attacks.