Caveman 2 Cosmos

[zulu9812]

I repacked the file so I'm able to extract it. Will keep testing to see if it worked.

 

[JosEPh_II]

About gatherers/workers:

This has been going on since v16. It corrects itself once you get Agriculture or the next Farming tech (can't recall its name at the moment). But you have a period of time were seed camps are not available to gatherers Or workers. And workers can't build farms either.

I just thought that was the way you guys designed it. <shrug>

I also checked to see if Hide Obsolete buildings and Hide Obsolete worker actions was checked in the BUG menu. I normally never check them as I want to "see" all actions whether permitted or not.

JosEPh

Edit @DH when I d/l'd and unpacked the current v17 (sept 15 release) i got part of what zulu posted. But it only dealt with Helenism. I'm playing with it now but have not succeeded in founding Helenism so I don't know what the repercussions are.

 

[Koshling]

About gatherers/workers:

This has been going on since v16. It corrects itself once you get Agriculture or the next Farming tech (can't recall its name at the moment). But you have a period of time were seed camps are not available to gatherers Or workers. And workers can't build farms either.

I just thought that was the way you guys designed it. <shrug>

I also checked to see if Hide Obsolete buildings and Hide Obsolete worker actions was checked in the BUG menu. I normally never check them as I want to "see" all actions whether permitted or not.

JosEPh

Edit @DH when I d/l'd and unpacked the current v17 (sept 15 release) i got part of what zulu posted. But it only dealt with Helenism. I'm playing with it now but have not succeeded in founding Helenism so I don't know what the repercussions are.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that seed gathering obsoletes befor you got farms. I think we should just change it so that building seed camps doesn't go obsolete until you are able to build farms.

 

[climat]

But Tedyke is researching Apiculture which requires Agriculture as it is shown in the picture.
I don't understand why he wants to build seed camp anyway.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Also on this same line, but involving Stone workshops and mines.

In the current version after mining is researched (and building Mines is available) you can still build the stone workshop. But you have 2 options and 2 Buttons to select from. 1 will consume the unit (whether gatherer or worker), and the other will Not.

Also it is cheaper to build the Stone Ws vs a Mine, because the next turn it (SW) converts into a working Mine. While if you select Mine to build, it may take several turns to get it done. Plus the SW gives 1 gold while a Mine does not. (Never understood why a Mine doesn't produce Gold/commerce anyway besides hammers).

In short don't build Mines, build the SW that does not consume the unit and get a mine next turn that was/is cheaper to build and gives a +1 Gold to boot! I like this even though it's probably a bug and an exploit.

JosEPh

 

[climat]

It's not a bug or an exploit! (at least to me )

 

[Nevets_]

Ideally there should be an interim building between Stone Tools Workshop -> Mine and Seed Camp -> Farm that is identical to the prehistoric improvement except that it doesn't consume the unit when built. The lumberjack was created to do this for Wood Gatherer -> Lumber mill because of the big gap between the two; but I think the mine/farm was overlooked because they are only 2 or three techs from Sedentary Lifestyle.

 

[Koshling]

But Tedyke is researching Apiculture which requires Agriculture as it is shown in the picture.
I don't understand why he wants to build seed camp anyway.

Presumably because he can't build a farm, since he only has a gatherer (and in un irrigated circumstances where you can't build a farm but can build a seed camp)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Why can't settlers settle on a saw grass tile? You can build nice farms on a saw grass tile though.

And why don't I get Dates on a Rocky tile that has the Date Palm on it? I can farm it. I can mine it. But I can't build a Plantation there. I like Dates, and Date Nut Bars are sooo good at Christmas time!

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

It's not a bug or an exploit! (at least to me )

So I "see" that I'm not the Only one who does this!

JosEPh

 

[climat]

Currently, no improvement exists for Date Palm, Coconut, Prickly Bear, Barrel Cactus. I didn't have any good idea and I wasn't sure about necessity, so I didn't add anything.
Plantation may fit, but it doesn't increase yield unlike its predecessors. It works with resources only.
Fruit of Barrel Cactus is not edible, so it should not be treated like others. EDIT: I don't know where people use Barrel Cactus for.. It seems they are used for water?
Perhaps, new improvements are needed. (Actually, I made one for personal use. )

 

[Koshling]

It's not a bug or an exploit! (at least to me )

If you can still build the stone workshop after mines are available and it's cheaper and it insta upgrades, it's not sensibly self consistent so it's a bug. I think either:

1. The ability to build mines should disable the ability to build a stone tools workshop; or
2. Stone tools workshops (and therefore to be consistent other things that auto upgrade) should only start the auto upgrade timer and then take some number of turns to actually do so (like mine to shaft mine, cottage to village, etc.)

 

[JosEPh_II]

If you can still build the stone workshop after mines are available and it's cheaper and it insta upgrades, it's not sensibly self consistent so it's a bug. I think either:

1. The ability to build mines should disable the ability to build a stone tools workshop; or
2. Stone tools workshops (and therefore to be consistent other things that auto upgrade) should only start the auto upgrade timer and then take some number of turns to actually do so (like mine to shaft mine, cottage to village, etc.)

Well currently the AutoUpGrade Timer is 1 turn.

What I really think is strange and definitely needs fixed is having "2" SW buttons/worker actions available. With one consuming the worker/gatherer and the other does not.

@climat,
I have to go back to my game to see if the Date palms disappeared. The swordgrass tile "farmed" shows the farm with swordgrass on the edges of the tile.

Now the game I'm currently playing was started with the 9-11 pre release v17 that SO let slip out and then continued with the Official 9-15 v17 release. If that makes a difference.

JosEPh

 

[climat]

Ah, my bad. I stupidly assumed you are using SVN!
I updated xml about improvements. Now, workers can burn sword grass and improvements automatically remove sword grass when they are built. I didn't thought about removing Date Palms..

 

[EldrinFal]

Currently, no improvement exists for Date Palm, Coconut, Prickly Bear, Barrel Cactus. I didn't have any good idea and I wasn't sure about necessity, so I didn't add anything.
Plantation may fit, but it doesn't increase yield unlike its predecessors. It works with resources only.
Fruit of Barrel Cactus is not edible, so it should not be treated like others. EDIT: I don't know where people use Barrel Cactus for.. It seems they are used for water?
Perhaps, new improvements are needed. (Actually, I made one for personal use. )

Coconut is a staple resource for a quite a few cultures in the world and has seen a rising popularity of late as an alternative to dairy. All of the SE Asia countries I've been to use coconut almost as much as they do rice. I definitely think it warrants a Good or Resource and a Plantation.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Ah, my bad. I stupidly assumed you are using SVN!
I updated xml about improvements. Now, workers can burn sword grass and improvements automatically remove sword grass when they are built. I didn't thought about removing Date Palms..

Yeah I'm SVN disadvantaged.

The dates palms stayed after a farm was built in My antiquated version.

Switching gears now: who thought it was a good idea to add a -3 and -5 hammers to Arena and Colosseum? Now I won't build them unless I Absolutely Must. Bad enough they had already attached too.

And the -Gold on housing? What's up with that? Started building Hovels and another of the early middle housing units and watched my gold/turn start dropping like a rock! Whoa! Stopped building them too, unless I really needed the +. <sigh>

The tech tree paths need to be shortened, segmented. As they are now they are too long. This is still causing religion founding problems. While the changes to Mono and Poly have helped there are other main religions that need their respective paths disassociated from one another. Example: this game I got Shaman, Tengri, and then beelined for Judaism. After that I was not concerned about getting any other religion but Buddhism, and I was not gonna beeline it either. Just by getting the tech that you need to expand and grow with I've also founded Kemetism, Shinto, and Naughalisim (sp). By picking techs past these, that they are preqs for, the paths I picked made picking these up way too easy. With Shinto attached to mathematics and Math a preq for construction it's very easy to out race the AI to it. These other religions have the same problem. I suppose I should study the techtree closer to give usable suggestions. Of course I play with Multiple Religions On, Limited is Off, as is Choose.

JosEPh

 

[climat]

Coconut is a staple resource for a quite a few cultures in the world and has seen a rising popularity of late as an alternative to dairy. All of the SE Asia countries I've been to use coconut almost as much as they do rice. I definitely think it warrants a Good or Resource and a Plantation.

I think new improvements are needed because adding general yields to Plantation is not a good idea. But I want to hear Hydro's opinion.

Yeah I'm SVN disadvantaged.

The dates palms stayed after a farm was built in My antiquated version.

Joseph, I'll attach files if you want.

 

[strategyonly]

Yeah I'm SVN disadvantaged.

Why its easy, just follow Dancing Hoskuld's SVN guide in his thread.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=429816

 

[Hydromancerx]

Hello,

I'm started a game C2C v17 and I guess I have all I need to build a "seed camp" but its not possible. I have a gatherer on a flat grasland (Within my borders) with corn on it on mouse over it says need seed camp. I can't find it between the commands for the gatherer even not grayed out. Is this a bug or ame I wrong?

That's because you already discovered agriculture. Stop your gatherer from auto working and then you can upgrade it to a worker (which can make farms). You cannot build a seed camp anymore because its obsoleted by the newer farms. I can tell you already ave farming because your researching Apiculture (aka bee keeping) which requires it.

Fruit of Barrel Cactus is not edible, so it should not be treated like others.

Prickly Pear should give you Food while Barrel Cactus should give you Commerce.

Coconut is a staple resource for a quite a few cultures in the world and has seen a rising popularity of late as an alternative to dairy. All of the SE Asia countries I've been to use coconut almost as much as they do rice. I definitely think it warrants a Good or Resource and a Plantation.

Well you can build a city vicinity building for it. Same goes for Dates, Bamboo, Prickly Pears, and Peyote (from Barrel Cactus).

Switching gears now: who thought it was a good idea to add a -3 and -5 hammers to Arena and Colosseum? Now I won't build them unless I Absolutely Must. Bad enough they had already attached too.

The sports related buildings give minus hammers since people are not working. I was the one who changed it but it was not my original idea. Generalstaff I believe originally came up with it, but it took me a long time to actually implement the idea.

And the -Gold on housing? What's up with that? Started building Hovels and another of the early middle housing units and watched my gold/turn start dropping like a rock! Whoa! Stopped building them too, unless I really needed the +. <sigh>

Maintenance cost for obsolete buildings. If you don't want it then upgrade your building to a better house to replace the old one. Its ment to make you want to build better houses and not keep the old ones since now none go obsolete anymore. See the idea here.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why is the seed camp obsolete?

There is also a worker on the tile which is also not able to build a seed camp. The tile also says its fresh water.
And can you tell me what makes the seed camp obsolete?

Seed camp upgrades to farm, since you are studying Apiculture you must have have Agriculture so you can build a farm.

About gatherers/workers:

This has been going on since v16. It corrects itself once you get Agriculture or the next Farming tech (can't recall its name at the moment). But you have a period of time were seed camps are not available to gatherers Or workers. And workers can't build farms either.

I just thought that was the way you guys designed it. <shrug>

I also checked to see if Hide Obsolete buildings and Hide Obsolete worker actions was checked in the BUG menu. I normally never check them as I want to "see" all actions whether permitted or not.

JosEPh

Edit @DH when I d/l'd and unpacked the current v17 (sept 15 release) i got part of what zulu posted. But it only dealt with Helenism. I'm playing with it now but have not succeeded in founding Helenism so I don't know what the repercussions are.

No longer so in v17, I have put in versions of seed camp and rock gatherer for the worker which don't consume them. that was the main thrust of my changes.

Also on this same line, but involving Stone workshops and mines.

In the current version after mining is researched (and building Mines is available) you can still build the stone workshop. But you have 2 options and 2 Buttons to select from. 1 will consume the unit (whether gatherer or worker), and the other will Not.

Also it is cheaper to build the Stone Ws vs a Mine, because the next turn it (SW) converts into a working Mine. While if you select Mine to build, it may take several turns to get it done. Plus the SW gives 1 gold while a Mine does not. (Never understood why a Mine doesn't produce Gold/commerce anyway besides hammers).

In short don't build Mines, build the SW that does not consume the unit and get a mine next turn that was/is cheaper to build and gives a +1 Gold to boot! I like this even though it's probably a bug and an exploit.

JosEPh

The two buttons were because I had put it in as a "module" while it was being tested. I have now put it in the core files so the worker only gets the non consume one. However you wont get that until v18 if you don't have access to the SVN.

At last someone has noticed!

Coconut is a staple resource for a quite a few cultures in the world and has seen a rising popularity of late as an alternative to dairy. All of the SE Asia countries I've been to use coconut almost as much as they do rice. I definitely think it warrants a Good or Resource and a Plantation.

You can't use the plantation as it exists, that is only for resources. However we could make a new one for features. I think we need a "Date Farm" and "Coconut Plantation" improvement. When (tech) and what stats?