CCM1 (epic mod)

Tom this is a really great story and very interesting to read. :):clap: I will analyze the effects you have written here (It seems the AI is about 800 years ahead of the technological progress it should do /Btw.: CCM was constructed on monarch level).

What form of government do you currently have?

Thank you for all your work and time you have invested in this wonderful report. :)
 
Let's just put it this way... Even the barbarians are more advanced than I am... In order to protect myself (due to going over my unit limit), I have had to have enough income to provide for larger army to go to war. Expanding is the only option I have to avoid getting defeated over time. I am still in Despotism because I know no other government yet. I only have gained 8 tech's over the whole course of the game! I am surprised I can still compete now that I think of it. Legionaries are the sole reason for my success' so far.

I am not even bothering with research, but will go towards trade and money producing structures to buy tech's instead. If I can get a few more cities from Spain, I will be satisfied for 20 turns and then try a war again once I replenish my troop supply and build structures I need.

Tom
 
Tom barbs are not a god idea on Sid. You can expect to get little from them and barbs are a real pain as you have lost your bonus against them. The fighting of barbs with warriors and archers is a dangerous idea. I wait for attack 3 units, if possible.
 
Yeah, if you can kill them. Not so easy when you have 0 bonus, easy with 800 on chief. Somewhere around 40, it gets to be sticky. Can you kill one with a 1 attack or a 2 attack, yeah.
Can you die, for sure. I have lost swords on them with 0 bonus. As Tom mentioned, you do not like to lose units early in the game. You really do not want to pop that hut near your newly founded second city and get barbs.

That not the only concern. You will get little other than junk like maps, but the AI will do better. They will already be doing well enough thank you. No need to increase the odds trying to get a few slaves. Saying barbs are good for slaves is like saying it is good to get a winner scratch off. It is true, but it may cost you something.
 
Barbs haven't been that bad at all though.. I've never had to worry about huge groups of them attacking me. AI has plentiful of units, and they go after barbs like crazy. So this keeps me safe from having to deal with them. About 10 barbs showed up mid-game near my southern town, but there was already about 10 German and French units in that area fighting them, and my Chariot's killed about 3 of the Advanced Barb units (3.2.2), in which I lost 1 Chariot in the process.

I like playing with Raging Barbs, as it gives me something else to think about in early game. It's kind of like a pain in the a** thing I enjoy dealing with. :cool:

The single move barbs are a great source of slaves, because with the huge retreat bonus fast units have, you have a great chance of retreating in the case your attack fails to kill them.

Plus, with all the AI units moving around (through my territory or near it) going after barbs, it gave my enslavers good opportunities to kill AI units instead of having them just grow and build in their own empires.

Tom
 
Could be the mod makes it different, but in std epic barbs on Sid are not a good thing. They are not even a good thing in AW. The last thing I want in an unmodded game is the AI coming around at the start of the game.

Their 18 units and my zero is too inviting and I have had them help themselves a few times. Still they can pop techs and they get through the age fast enough.
 
I had no idea, or perhaps didn't read that culture flips are still in CCM. I assumed they were, just haven't seen it happen yet in prev games. Probably missed it during game setup. Culture flips are the epitome of a bad idea implemented in an absolute horrible annoying fashion.

I still took this into consideration though, and brought every unit I could fathom to the front. City flipped with 45 units in it (3 or 4 turns after I took it). 40% of my whole civilizations forces gone. To stop the flip, I would need approx 138 garrisoned units according to the flip calculator. (Impossible I don't even have that many units)

I have no motivation to deal with flips (This is a rambling complaint against Conquests flips in general, nothing against CCM) No point to even attack with things that you know you cannot stop and that will happen. Unless you are powerful enough to do a constant steamroll on a civ to take down their culture you are doomed.

Slow steady attacks will leave you losing all of your units pointlessly and unrealistically. With these civ's culture way above mine (as it will always be on SID), no point in playing anymore, since I have no choice but to just sit there and lose the game, since attacking is it's own death wish. SID game over.

EDIT: because I was playing and only saving when I was done for the current day, my last save is like 7 turns ago, so can't reload anything here (of course it wouldn't make a difference, the random seed thing is always on in CCM, so it would flip regardless).

Tom
 
They're too damn powerful. They either make it too easy for the player, or they make it too hard. Keep the Slavery improvement, but dump the damn slavers.

Sorry Civinator, but right now I'm burned out on CCM, and it's because of the kerfrackin slavers.
 
They're too damn powerful. They either make it too easy for the player, or they make it too hard. Keep the Slavery improvement, but dump the damn slavers.

Sorry Civinator, but right now I'm burned out on CCM, and it's because of the kerfrackin slavers.

Wait until the next version comes out... once workers can see your Enslavers, it will be a completely different story. Because your enslavers will not survive long in enemy territory at all if workers are in the vicinity.

Here's a question, if your enslaver is spotted by another civ's workers, but you kill the workers, so then AI can't see you anymore... does the AI 'Remember' that you were there? :crazyeye:

----

Because of cultural conversions, I won't play SID, I will stick with Deity, because in my last Deity game, I was able to make enough units and keep close enough to run quick constant city takedowns on the AI. SID this is not quite possible in most cases. SID I found tremendously much more enjoyable than Deity because of difficulty factors, but I won't modify BIQ in any way shape or form.

Tom
 
Sorry to hear the story about the culture flip.

Wait until the next version comes out... once workers can see your Enslavers, it will be a completely different story. Because your enslavers will not survive long in enemy territory at all if workers are in the vicinity.

Here's a question, if your enslaver is spotted by another civ's workers, but you kill the workers, so then AI can't see you anymore... does the AI 'Remember' that you were there? :crazyeye:Tom

I´m now in era 2 with a prototype of CCM biq 1.3. It´s now a very dangerous undertaking of an enslaver to go after workers. If a worker is alone in the field the enslaver has a good change, but most times the enslaver is killed when he ends his turn one tile to the worker. Going after workers near cities is no longer a good idea for enslavers.

Additionally if an enslaver is near a worker, the worker stops his work and tries to move to the next city. It´s an effect simmilar to AoE2.

As the worker can only see one tile (and I don´t want to give him the radar ability), sometimes it can occur, that a worker runs unto an enslaver.

Now to the question: If the worker is killed by the enslaver, there were some situations that the enslaver was able to survive, but most times the enslaver was killed the next turn.
 
Perhaps a stupid question,
but
why do you have flyingboats as Sea Units ??

It feels wrong, but I understand that you might like to use them to detect subs.
I don´t know how it works since I just started testing this mod.

Correct me if I´m wrong, but it looks like you have tried to make a certain flying corps that can land on carriers. B-52 and bombers can´t. If I got this correct then I´m truly happy.
However the selection of P51 Mustangs landing on carriers doesn´t work .... I think you just tested this area a little. If you like it please enhance it with the proper aircraft that in RL did land on carriers. F86,P47,Mosquito, F5 , F104 among others didn´t land on carriers


Like very much the Small wonder that builds a "training" unit that you then (or the AI) upgrades to a more specific unit for that nation. Great thing.

I doubt that the idea of tranposrt aircraft like C-47 can be used by the AI, or am I wrong.
 
Yeah they (workers) they run but if you stack an Enslaver w/ Musketman and set them accross the border from the Mongols horse resource... three slaves and counting!
 
Okay... with the trouble I had with culture conversion (hence I wasn't anticipating it), I have started a new SID game taking into account everything; to give myself a chance. In other words, last game I lost since my army got decimated from the city flip. This time, I won't let that happen! :cool:

SID - Italy/Rome Try 2 - Normal Aggression, Pangea, 60% water, 31 civ's

3800BC - Milan founded.
3200BC - Greek = Statue of Zeus, India = Temple of Artemis
3150BC - Greek = Colossus
3100BC - French = Pyramids, Maya = Stonehenge
3000BC - Turks = Temple of Baalbek
2660BC - Russia = Oracle
2580BC - India = Worldreligion Hinduism
2220BC - Germany = Hammurabi
2020BC - Russia = Silkroad
1860BC - Enslaver directly attacks Rome. I counter-attack with a Spearman in the direction it came from, and kill the Enslaver. (No enslavers will escape my wrath! :devil:)
1820BC - Hebrew = Solomon's Temple
1780BC - India = Ganges Pilgrimage. Researched Iron Working... and there is an Iron Source right near Rome! :hammers:
1740BC - My Enslaver pops a goody hut, and 3 barbs emerge! They all attack my enslaver, and in his heroic defense :strength:, he becomes elite, defeats them all, and gets 2 slaves! (Guess barbs can see invisible? :confused:)
1660BC - Enslaver gets another slave from a random barb while escorting the 2 slaves back to town. This guy is going down as a Hero to the Roman soldiers, on how to fight with valor, distinction, and no mercy!
1580BC - Russia = Worldreligion Christianity
1500BC - Built Royal Stables (bought the Wheel for 300+ gold/11 per turn), and now am building Great Iron Mine in Rome.
1460BC - Spain = Great Library, Germany = Great Lighthouse, Israel = Jewish Worldreligion
1420BC - Turks = Worldreligion Islam, Greece = Hanging Gardens, Greece = Colosseum
1340BC - Spain = Mausoleum of Mausollos
940BC - Korea = Worldreligion Buddhism
580BC - Turks = Dome of the Rock
540BC - I have been heading towards getting trade, this way I can maximize my income.. which will help to simply buy tech's, and support a much larger army. Research is somewhat irrelevant right now.
500BC - China = Great Wall
250BC - France = Hagia Sophia
25BC - Spain = Royal Tournament
50AD - I feel much better about this position than my first attempted SID game... I know how to avoid the problems I had there, and can setup my forces appropriately before any war to avoid those things. With 6 cities right now, each city can pump out a Vet Roman Legionary every 3 1/2 turns on average if need be. Britain, my neighbor, will likely be my first target once I research (buy) Trade and build tax increasing buildings, to afford a large army.
100AD - Greek = Philosophers Stone. Supply Shipments from Great Iron Mine are very useful for the extra gold! :gold: I need more Luxuries!
200AD - The Scandinavians have been destroyed! by someone, but who? :eek: My planned attack on Briton is 40 turns or so. This gives me time to buy Trade in about 10 turns, and then build marketplaces, followed by as many units until my income shrinks to near 0/turn; then attack!
300AD - I bought Trade for about 45 gold/turn, plus some gold. Alot, yes, but I checked and Marketplaces would take an average of 10 turns to build in my cities. I am still bringing in good amount of gold, and this will add to that, so I can start pumping out units soon.
525AD - Marketplaces are being completed, and cities are beginning to pump out Legionaries! Germany = Hanseatic League
675AD - Russia = Sacred Music, Germany = Great Cathedral
750AD - Babylon = Kaaba
775AD - Greece = Vatican, Germany = Holy Book Printed
800AD - Persia = Art of Islam, Germany = Jolly Roger
900AD - Greece = Doge Palace
950AD - My army is now average to the British. Once I am able to amass a little more troops, I will commence with my attack. Britain does have Pikeman already, but I should do fairly well with enough troops. I have 98 right now.
1050AD - Israel has Arqubruisers! 5 or 6 more turns, and attack on Britain commences before they can acquire these upgraded defenders! Each of my 6 main cities (other 3 are still being developed) can pump out a Legionary every 2 turns almost. My enslavers that are roaming around in British territory have noticed that alot of British units are heading North, which is good... if they are at war with another civ, it will make my job of taking their cities much easier!

SID-ItalyBritain.jpg
The Roman/British front... obviously a human player would not fall for such a thing as massing troops at the front. :cowboy:

Tom
 
interesting, Tom. Keep us updated.

I got some time issues and cannot continue with my game properly at the moment. Also, I got this error with the 5 year plan wonder. Anyone has the wonder splash?
 
Tom the Patrol ini will allow barbs to move about and just run into your units, same for AI. If it is off (default), they only go in certain paths and hence tend to stay put.

The AI is similar in that in C3 and early PTW the AI would have units "patrol". Use up their movement, even when on a tiny island. This let them bump into Armies that they would normally avoid.

So you have choice, turn it on and get the old movement or leave it off. The reaon for on is obvious, but the reason for off is also valid. That is in late games or very large games that "patrolling" eats up time. An isue when you have thousands of units in the game.

TheRat, I had no issues with any splash, but there are lots of wonders that are civ specific and I could not build them and many I just did not build. I presume the AI will not use the interface and hence will not use any splash screen.
 
About AI patrol, they all patrolled directly against my enslaver on that turn... They usually just fortify, or perhaps go in their seperate directions. The odds / chances of 3 going to the same spot is a bit much it seems; especailly since I was near the shore, and the rest of the world was in the opposite direction.

SID - Italy / Roman Empire (The war with Britain)

1100AD - India = Angkor Wat
1125AD - I've decided now is the time to launch the attack against Britain! :trouble:
Battle Plan
: I have 18 units spearheading the assault against Birmingham (directly to the west). This army includes all of my Chariots.
: I have 12 units heading south towards Newcastle. Reinforcements will go south first, since Newcastle is size 13; and I don't know how strong this city is. This city is far from the rest of Britain, so it can't be protected very easily by them.
: 7 units will hit Coventry which is north of Birmingham.
: 11 units will head further north towards Edinburgh.
All cities will drop 1 of their defenders and begin heading towards the front as reinforcements, and will go where they are needed most, in addition to any newly created units. I am hitting 4 different fronts in hopes to avoid captured cities getting blasted by culture conversions.

My Chariot's take the defenders of Birmingham, and the city falls to my forces. My other 3 armies begin the march on Newcastle, Edinburgh, and Coventry. Forces produced in the north region of my civilization head towards Edinburgh, since it will likely be hit by hard resistance and counterattack. The remainder of my high production cities in the south all head for Birmingham, since that is where the spearhead needs to be quick and decisive, in order to take down high culture cities to the west (London, Liverpool, and Manchester). Coventry should fall easily; it appears to not be connected by road; was founded only recently, and has spearman still defending it.

SID-ItalyBritain2.jpg

1150AD - Coventry falls with no losses. The town is small, and defenders were unprepared.
1175AD - Newcastle falls in the south, but I take losses of 4 or 5 Legionaries. Ouch! Lose a couple more at Coventry from a British Chariot attacking my unfortified defenders in the city.
Edinburgh falls in to my far northern forces. Like I expected, many reinforcements are moving towards that city... so I have diverted more troops to reinforce that city, and worker groups are working to connect these cities to the mighty :strength: Roman Empire. I begin bringing troops towards London.

SID-ItalyBritain3.jpg
Yes, I have Conscript Legionary (as seen in the pic). He did not survive the war!

1210AD - About 15 units are prepared to assault London next turn, with reinforcements flowing in. Edinburgh is taking a beating, but they are holding out. AI seems to have ALOT of defenders compared to offensive units, not sure why this is :confused:...
- I was able to trade with India the extra Iron source I acquired from taking Birmingham (and 80 gold :gold:) for Mysticism and Mathematics (I only 5 turns left to research Math though), but this lets me build siege Workshop :yup:, and gets me closer to Monarchy!
1220AD - London almost falls, but withstands the attack. I should have the city next turn. I believe there was 1 Chariot left in the city and I didn't have enough troops to take it out. I had some big losses myself. :wallbash:
1230AD - London Falls! Regardless of the penalty hit, I am starving these cities to try to help avoid any culture conversions. Since I took their Iron Supply, they can no longer build Pikeman and other more powerful units, this should help me greatly.
1250AD - Korea = Potala Palace
1270AD - British units still are attacking the northern city of Edinburgh. Many are defensive units, which I've taken a fair share of losses destroying. 12 units have been dispatched to take Manchester (will arrive in about 3 to 4 turns), which lies between Newcastle and London. This will close this front and allow me to turn all forces towards Liverpool to the north; their new Capitol. My main concern is culture flip, since I temporarily ran out of units to attack with due to having to stop the masses from getting on my territory and destroying roads and improvements. 2 Wine resources were finally secured at Newcastle, which has greatly helped my happiness and trade possibilities. My soldiers can't get drunk yet though! :beer:
1280AD - Greece = Neuschwanstein, Germany = Taj Mahal, Germany = Great Playhouse
1290AD - Germany = Leonardo's Workshop
1300AD - Took absolute horrible losses attacking Manchester. I was able to capture the city, but lost 10 units! :wow: Ouch! 3 of those were my remaining Chariots, 1 enslaver, and the rest Legionaries. At least now I can concentrate on the remaining 2 cities.
1310AD - Britain tries to enter talks, I refuse. 5 Elite legionaries set up from Edinburgh towards Liverpool as distraction. Units from my new London will attack soon after.

NOTES: Babylon has ALOT of defenders, I was way up north with a worker (traveling via mountain), and there must have been around 100 pikeman that were traveling about near one of their cities.

1320AD - Kyoto = Himeji Castle
1330AD - Korea = Buddhistic Art
1340AD - First Catapult produced. Great, Edinburgh desposed back to Britain :dubious:, probably because I brought out most units towards Liverpool. Back to Edinburgh those units go... only 4 units lost though.
1360AD - My army of around 18 units takes absolute horrendous casulties assaulting Liverpool (Again! :gripe:). Only 7 survive after the city is taken. But at least the city falls... now only Glasgow remains. There is another British city far far up north, but I won't even worry about that city, and will make peace after Glasgow.
1370AD - I am able to take back Edinburgh with my forces.
1380AD - Mongols have been destroyed by another civ :eek: Certain nations are becoming ultra powerful, like Israel my northern neighbor.
1400AD - Korea asked me to leave their territory, and I said okay (a worker was on a mountain); suddenly they declared war on me taking my worker and we had a trade going (so I lost incense). What in the world???!! :run: :scared: Lucky they are some distance, but not way far away.
1430AD - My first leader, Trajan, has come up out of the ranks during the battle against Glasgow! My war against Britain is over, I have obtained the lands I need in order to survive. During peace negotiations :deal:, I gave Britain 28 gold/turn, 43 gold, and an end to this bloody conflict for Literature, Monarchy, Riding, and Seafaring! What a deal! (To compare, normally I would barely be able to get 1 descent tech for that amount of gold)
1440AD - Building the Roman Senate has begun my Golden Age! I really should have changed gov'ts first then built Roman Senate. I will have to waste a couple GA Turns, because Monarchy will result in much better results than being in a GA with Despotism (even with a couple turns lost).
1460AD - Persia = Copernicus' Observatory, Portugal = Magellan's Voyage
1470AD - A couple Korean troops already showed up near my northern most city of Turin. I am massing troops up to that location in preparation of Korea's force. I have an enslaver up in that area, and he witnessed hordes of troops heading down south, including Knights, Pikeman, Musketmen, Longbows, Siege Machines, Swordsmen, War Elephants, and the whole nine-yards. My Golden Age will allow me to prepare a bit more quickly. I must prepare for the onslaught. :think:

Tom
 
why do you have flyingboats as Sea Units ??

I also have costal batteries as sea units and I needed a unit they can upgrade, to. They are seaunits as I don´t want to get them used over land. The flyingboats use Wyrmshadow´s excellent torpedo attack animation. It´s worse enough if they torpedoe coastal towns. I don´t want inland cities be torpedoed by flyingboats. These units should operate over the seas and therefore with the possibilities of C3C in my eyes it was the best to make them seaunits. If I would make them normal planes there would be no use for them in CCM.


Correct me if I´m wrong, but it looks like you have tried to make a certain flying corps that can land on carriers. B-52 and bombers can´t. If I got this correct then I´m truly happy. However the selection of P51 Mustangs landing on carriers doesn´t work .... I think you just tested this area a little. If you like it please enhance it with the proper aircraft that in RL did land on carriers. F86,P47,Mosquito, F5 , F104 among others didn´t land on carriers

The only thing I wanted to avoid is the landing of big strategic bombers and most WW2 tactical bombers on carriers. The AI has a lot of problems to load aircrafts on carriers (that´s why CCM carrriers have a different setting in long range bombardement), let alone to produce and to load the correct planes to carriers.

You are correct about the planes :), but the AI can´t handle it.
 
I got some time issues and cannot continue with my game properly at the moment. Also, I got this error with the 5 year plan wonder. Anyone has the wonder splash?

This wonder was one of the last I added to CCM and it is one of the first for balancing governments in CCM. The wondersplash should be in the wondersplash-folder of the main file: five_year_plan.pcx , but I forgot to add it to the pediaicons file. I will fix that for the next upload. :)

 

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