CFC Fantasy Baseball Keeper League 2014!

[El Justo]

i do not want to drop out but i also do not want to go into a full debate on the stats. we did that ad nauseam. tweaks, ok. but no full on discussion. i don't want to sound like a ass but this is a sticking point for me. the other stuff, so be it. i trust illram will put something together that is fair.

 

[onejayhawk]

So. what is the status. Are we waiting for Y!, which is overdue?

J

 

[El Justo]

i think Y! launchs when pitchers and catchers report.

 

[illram]

Once Y! launches I will provide login info and start recruiting the final 3 or so people we need. PM me your emails.

If anyone knows anyone else who is interested send them my way.

 

[onejayhawk]

They announced that 30 Jan 14 was launch day.

J

 

[classical_hero]

I think that EJ should start up the official thread very soon.

 

[El Justo]

in the next few days i will

 

[illram]

Join us CH! Gooble gobble gooble gobble one of us one of us....

 

[dgfred]

I may be a dunce but I still don't understand why you need all that off-season figuring.
Why not keep the 5 guys you want and draft from lowest finish to highest the next season.

You are going to keep some very young and some vets is my experience.
Like in my keeper league I have to decide to keep guys such as Kinsler and C.Lee... as opposed to some young studs I picked up this year. I've had those 2 since we started about 5 years ago. We keep 5. I have had Votto for 3 years too .

Keeping managers interested that don't really care or don't really like their teams is tuff enough without them having to actually use their brains IMO.

If a few of your managers are barely playing... anything extra will likely make them quit.
OR
They are not going to be too good if they don't really pay attention all year and in the off-season. Some of you will kill them every season.

Anyway... just my thoughts. I personally don't like to think that much .

All the best, Fred

 

[El Justo]

simpler is better imo, no doubt. plus, it leaves room to evolve, if that is something that is wished for.

 

[classical_hero]

Join us CH! Gooble gobble gooble gobble one of us one of us....

I'm only doing one league for each sport, if there is one available. I did two last year and I found that too much work to do from this far away.

 

[illram]

Keep 5 without any value system to me is really a different type of keeper league. Basically every owner keeps their best 5 forever and ever. Your team is "yours" and you become attached to it, which is good, but the bad part to me is that good and lucky drafters are permanently rewarded, poor or unlucky drafters are punished. It violates my second rule of a fun keeper league. (Bad teams should have chances to catch up and good teams can't just sit tight forever). For instance dgfred, you can keep Votto forever in your league, until he becomes the worst of your top 6 people. So if I have a lucky draft this season and happen to pick 4 or 5 studs (it happens, although rarely to me) I am set for years. Or if i pick a choice sleeper like Trout, I am set forever. In fact in your league fred, have kept Votto, Kinsler and C Lee for 3 (5?) years... under this system that would be impossible. So in this system good players go back into the pool for each draft, so each draft is interesting and bad teams have a chance to get back into it. Sacrifice a little simplicity for a lot more fun, in my opinion. Simpler is not necessarily better... (

If the system has a value component then the keeper system is no longer about keeping the "best", it becomes more of a team building dynasty type league. Late round picks that will payoff which you will keep longer than first or second round studs gain more value. The end of the draft becomes almost interesting as the beginning. Trades are more dynamic, as keeper trades have additional components to them. (For instance in a more dynasty type league, you might actually trade Votto if you're out of contention for a big haul of prospects. In a keep 5 system there would rarely be an incentive to trade a guy like him unless you're basically just betting his time if over and you have 5 others better than him). There is more thinking. Not a whole lot more, but a little more. The fun type of thinking. Which for me is the draw of a keeper/dynasty league. For instance if you had a good draft in 2012 and you picked up Braun, Trout, Kemp and McCutchen, (possible in 2012) you're pretty much set for a while under a straight keep 5 system. Under a value system eventually all those guys would become too expensive, in one way or another, and you would have to decide on which to keep. For instance in this system eventually you'd have to choose 2 of those 4.

It's really not a lot of work, you can basically check in once during the off season to figure your keepers if you wanted. That level of effort would be enough to compete every year. As commish I would keep the records of everyone's teams so you could basically rely on me to do the record keeping if you wanted.

 

[dgfred]

Drafting last place to first place basically solves that problem of league equality.

You don't keep guys 'forever'... like my decisions this year with Kinsler and Lee. There are also injuries.

IMO it is called a keeper league because you keep your guys from year to year... they are your team. Guys you picked because you wanted them... not just lucky or unlucky at draft.

I was just wondering about all the stuff anyway.

 

[illram]

I'm sure that is a fun league... but this is different and I encourage you to try it with us. I think you will like it because I know you're a good fantasy player.

 

[El Justo]

butter him up why don't you

while i appreciate the complicated nature of keepers, it will absolutely scare some people away. that's all i'm sayin'

 

[illram]

I know. That's OK. We only need 8 or 10. We have 6 so we need 2 more.

I think if people try it, they will find they enjoy it, and if you are already an experienced fantasy baseball player you will enjoy it even more. And if you're new to fantasy but like baseball, you will also find this very rewarding. E.g. Owen if you're reading this, a dynasty type league like this is a great place to show off your fancy SABREstats wizadry.

 

[illram]

League is up. Register here.

If that does not work, PM me your email. I haven't edited any settings yet, I will do that later.

edited front page with final rules (subject to edits solely for clarity)

 

[KMRblue1027]

I'm in now.

 

[sanabas]

i'm out if the stats are up for debate. we spent years refining and to have one dude come breezing along saying they "aren't very good" is laughable compromise couldn't hurt, you know

I'm fine with compromise. I'm not saying 'you must use all my preferred stats or I won't play.'

It's a different league, it's trying to get a long-term keeper league up & running here, I don't see how trying to make it a carbon-copy of the non-keeper league settings will help that. Personally, I'm not a big fan of playing in multiple leagues that feel the same, I'm much more excited to add a new league that offers a different challenge, e.g. auction & roto.

I'll cope with just about any combination of stats that gets decided on. I'll be vocal and opinionated while setting things up/discussing them, and then once a decision gets made, I'll shut up and play. For a brand new league, attempting to offer players an alternative to, or even better be an addition to, the yearly redraft, I think discussing the stats is quite reasonable, and a better idea than just importing them from another league. Which is why I said I don't like the stats, and we should discuss them and use better ones.

I really, really don't like using two stats that count essentially the same thing, and so using both W & QS is a sticking point for me. I'd prefer QS to W, I think it's more skill and less luck than W, and it matches up nicely with the other pitchers, it gives all 3 types their own individual success stat (QS, HLD, SV).


I don't like that a pitcher's value comes from 2/3 or more rate stats, but the batters' value comes from volume stats only. I would prefer to see something like OPS included as a batting stat, maybe to replace total bases.

If keeping batting and pitching stat numbers the same is a concern, then I'd remove W, keep QS on the pitching side, and remove hits, walks, total bases on the batting side, and replace them with 2 rate stats that count the same thing, AVG & OPS.

That'd leave it as 7x7, would just be tweaking the redraft league's stat categories, and address both my major concerns. Still not the stat package I'd prefer, but certainly a compromise I can live with.

I'd also prefer to see the IP limit come down from 40 to 30. I think for practical purposes, you need to be aiming for maybe 15 IP above the limit, as you don't want to risk a start getting skipped, a reliever getting a few less IP than expected, etc. Would hate to see someone lose all pitching categories because they put in a full lineup but only got 39 IP due to unexpected events.

Something not covered in the OP: weekly or daily roster changes? I assume weekly, but I might be wrong.

 

[illram]

Yes weekly, definitely.

I think lowering the IP is a good idea. There are more SP slots so the reason for a high IP minimum is largely moot. (I.e., no gaming rates stats by loading up on elite relievers.)

stats wise, for continuity and other reasons it is CFC stats this year. I do agree as to the general point of not having redundant stas. I agree stats could use some tweaking but not enough to change it this year. Any rules are up for debate for 2015 if enough in the league support it.