CFC team sign up

[Sommerswerd]

If they all know about it and agree before hand, it's ok. Ask any lawyer.

No, it most certainly is not OK

A bunch of you guys, Caledorn, Provo, damnrunner and others, still need to do the whole Group Memberships thing to get access to the Private forum. You guys have all done it before, but if you need instructions check the "How to get Access" thread in this forum

 

[Evil Bob]

I haven't actually signed up for Team Civfanatics... I'm just a group member to test the access permissions!

 

[Sommerswerd]

I haven't actually signed up for Team Civfanatics... I'm just a group member to test the access permissions!

Thanks for letting us know. Since everything seems to be working, I went ahead and removed you Thanks for your help.

 

[YossarianLives]

Hi Sommerswerd, 2metraninja and team CFC. I am hoping to join your team for MTDG III.

I don't have personal mp experience, but I lurk a lot of the games at Realms Beyond, and have read some of the games here at Civ Fanatics. I am currently making my way through Team Amazon's subforum from the last MTDG. I find these games extremely entertaining, and would love to participate in this one. I'll contribute however I can, and will be active in discussions as long as you want my input/feedback.

Regarding the discussion above, I'm not on any other teams! I did ask at Realms Beyond, but they are keeping their sign-ups limited to more active members.

Well, I'll go request access to the private subforum now, but wanted to say something in here first. If there is anything else you want to know before approving my request, let me know!

 

[talonschild]

I am most certainly also in, but will likely have little to contribute. Am still on Noble, after all. But, I'd still love to take part, and see what I can learn.

edit: After reading the Jobs Required page, I've been inspired to volunteer to conduct polls as requested by the Ministers and Justice of the Court, and also to translate to French should we play anyone French.

 

[grant2004]

Hello all, it's been a while since I played a DG, but this sounds interesting. These are always a good opportunity to improve your strategy by discussing it in detail with the other players, so definitely count me in.

 

[YossarianLives]

I just saw the "wishlist" on the CFC roster page. I speak Spanish, so I can help translate, I can give diplomatic feedback (I'm a Political Science major and have some insight to how members of team rb think), I can definitely look up mechanics questions, and can even try my hand at deciphering some of the demographics numbers. I wouldn't call myself an expert in any of these areas, so you may not want me taking the lead, but like I said in my first post, I really want to participate in this game so I will help in any way I can.

 

[Provolution]

Well, update the list with my profile name please.

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK I added you but you have to go to group memberships to get access to the subforum. I cant give you access unless you request it.

 

[talonschild]

Hey, Sommersword - does that mean you'll approve my request to join?

 

[cav scout]

So it looks like team RB is being really cautious about who they allow access to their private team forum. I guess this has been a problem for them previously and its now raising a few red flags for me...

We all want a multi-site game free of any sort of questionable conduct. But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

So I think Team CFC should consider limiting private forum access to people who have a reputation or a decent post count here at CFC.

I know alot of people post on multiple sites but I consider CFC to be my home base. I want to make sure my teammates feel the same way and will be 100% faithful to our team. I know that limiting membership based on post count is a litmus test but I can't think of any other way.

 

[Sommerswerd]

So it looks like team RB is being really cautious about who they allow access to their private team forum. I guess this has been a problem for them previously and its now raising a few red flags for me...

We all want a multi-site game free of any sort of questionable conduct. But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

So I think Team CFC should consider limiting private forum access to people who have a reputation or a decent post count here at CFC.

I know alot of people post on multiple sites but I consider CFC to be my home base. I want to make sure my teammates feel the same way and will be 100% faithful to our team. I know that limiting membership based on post count is a litmus test but I can't think of any other way.

This.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Another thing... I know some people play alot of MP and so know a bunch of people though they dont post much. If you fall into this category and if you are well known on CFC you probably share a mutual friend of someone on the team. Look at the friends of some of the confirmed members for people you know and see if they want to help the team and/or vouch for you to whoever they are friends with.

 

[talonschild]

Pity. Looks like I won't be on the team, then, barring a leap of faith, seeing as I'm new. I do, of course, claim innocence - I have no account on other forums.

Let me know if anything changes.

 

[Krill]

So it looks like team RB is being really cautious about who they allow access to their private team forum. I guess this has been a problem for them previously and its now raising a few red flags for me...

We all want a multi-site game free of any sort of questionable conduct. But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

So I think Team CFC should consider limiting private forum access to people who have a reputation or a decent post count here at CFC.

I know alot of people post on multiple sites but I consider CFC to be my home base. I want to make sure my teammates feel the same way and will be 100% faithful to our team. I know that limiting membership based on post count is a litmus test but I can't think of any other way.

It's called trust, in your fellow players. RB doesn't have it and it seems like you aren't sure either. Why are you willing to exclude a bunch of players A from the game because you don't know them and think they might cheat but trust a bunch of other players B that you don't know either to not cheat? And this restriction is only there to stop B from cheating in the first place, so you don't even trust them to not cheat?!

 

[Caledorn]

It's called trust, in your fellow players. RB doesn't have it and it seems like you aren't sure either. Why are you willing to exclude a bunch of players A from the game because you don't know them and think they might cheat but trust a bunch of other players B that you don't know either to not cheat? And this restriction is only there to stop B from cheating in the first place, so you don't even trust them to not cheat?!

Please, Krill, let us handle our team as we wish. AFAIK you are not even participating in the game, so I don't see the need for you to return every now and then writing things that appear to be for no other purpose than sowing discord?

I don't know you at all, and I'm sure you're a splendid guy - but even though your point is valid, the way you say it is less than diplomatic.

 

[2metraninja]

It's called trust, in your fellow players. RB doesn't have it and it seems like you aren't sure either. Why are you willing to exclude a bunch of players A from the game because you don't know them and think they might cheat but trust a bunch of other players B that you don't know either to not cheat? And this restriction is only there to stop B from cheating in the first place, so you don't even trust them to not cheat?!

The second half of your sentence does not make much sense to me, so I am not going to answer it, but on the first one, I am going to tell you why we decided to put restrictions and not accept all players. It was strange coincidence that the same day when at RB was discussed possible spying on other teams and you wrote at RB that "CFC will accept anyone", we got 2-3 absolutely new CFC accounts signing up to be part of CFC team talking nonsenses like "we are here to see how CFC will beat all the other teams" WTF!?! You guys never registered at CFC, but you are well informed that there is a MTDG organized and you know who the other participants are and you wait to see CFC (which you never cared for till now to ever register) to beat the other teams? To me this smells bad and I am considered reasonable. Imagine how this smells to the more suspicious ones.

And btw, Caledorn is right - begone in peace and find yourself enjoyment somewhere else

 

[Krill]

It's a fairly simple point. people want to play in the game, read other people's posts and interact with them. There isn't anything suspicious about peoples motives there.

However, your statement is that the player restrictions is because you think that they are spies for other teams, as per Cav scout:

But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

Now, this explicitly states that you think your competitors will cheat, by creating new logins on CFC, and joining the CFC team. So to stop this from occurring you are stopping new posters from joining this team.

Hence, you do not trust your competitors.

But you are still going to play the game, and these competitors whom you do not trust will have other opportunities to cheat, for example pre-game agreements. You are not able to stop any of these with current rules, nor with an admin, but this is a tangential issue, and not the one that I am posting about.

This rule then has the effect of stopping new posters from joining the game.

There are precisely 2 options here. Accept that you are playing with people who can cheat, and trust them not to, or not play. Because if someone wants to cheat they will do, and creating this rule isn't going to stop it.

It was strange coincidence that the same day when at RB was discussed possible spying on other teams and you wrote at RB that "CFC will accept anyone", we got 2-3 absolutely new CFC accounts signing up to be part of CFC team talking nonsenses like "we are here to see how CFC will beat all the other teams" WTF!?! You guys never registered at CFC, but you are well informed that there is a MTDG organized and you know who the other participants are and you wait to see CFC (which you never cared for till now to ever register) to beat the other teams?

There isn't anything suspicious about this at all. A bunch of lurkers on RB have lurked games without creating logins, because they haven't had to, to lurk the games there. Then you come along and create a thread in the main forum saying there is a new demogame starting, and would RB like to play in it. So you informed the lurkers there is a game starting in the first place! RB creates a private forum that these lurkers can't see, they create logins and ask to join so they can lurk. Straightforward motives there.

Then, one week later RB publicly decides to not let any new players join, and I say on that day that CFC will take new players. The lurkers read my post then come over here and ask to play, because they want to play in the game, and RB won't take them.

The fact is that the lurkers didn't ask to join this team until RB refused them: they didn't try to join multiple teams, they haven't tried to cheat, and AFAICT, they have been perfectly respectable.

Please, Krill, let us handle our team as we wish. AFAIK you are not even participating in the game, so I don't see the need for you to return every now and then writing things that appear to be for no other purpose than sowing discord?

Um, you a mod? I didn't think so.

You seem to misunderstand why I'm posting here. You seem to think I want you to have a bad time and a bad game. Actually, it's the opposite, I want you all to have a good game so there will be a next time for demogames, so I might play in that one. I'm not playing in this one for many reasons, and yes, one of those reasons is that I do not want to play on these settings. That has no effect whatsoever on why I've posted here in the last 2 weeks: I'd have made the same posts if I'd have played on any of the teams. All the posts have been about the same thing: stopping new players from joining the game, and lack of player trust in each other, and both centred on the same issue. Ultimately I have no control over either of these, but the issue does need highlighting and for everyone in hte game to reflect on what they can do to control these thoughts, because they are a very real potential problem as the game progresses.

A good example is what happened with Memphus, and how that caused that game to unravel. All because of a lack of trust in each other.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I was going to say "Hey guys this thread is for CFC signup not blah, blah, blah...etc", but then I thought "Well the ""How to Join the Private Forum thread really makes this one redundant, so theres no harm in mucking this one up a little, and why be so self-righteous anyway? And TBH who am I kidding anyway? I am just as interested in arguing/debating this issue ad-nauseum/to-the-death as anyone." Plus all the points about Krill not playing etc, have been made and re-made and he obviously doesn't care... he wants to argue about this...so...

You've come to the right place buddy Welcome to the Sommerswerdzone... Where nothing is too trivial to spend 10, 20, 50 posts and 7,000 words arguing about

So to get us started on the right foot... I conceed to pretty much everything you said in your last post, but that brings us full circle to this point which I want to discuss... WHY DID RB RESTRICT ACCESS? To me this is the only issue. IMO, RB restricted access because THEY DON'T TRUST those lurkers who were trying to join. So if they don't trust them, why should I?

As everyone can imagine I have LOADS more to say, but lets just start with that. I want some d@mn good reasons why I should trust someone who an experienced player like LP (or other veterans on RB) do not trust. Not one reason, mind you... MANY reasons... because I have MANY reasons not to trust, and I would similarly need many reasons to cancel those out.

And please don't waste time with an appeal to some BS sense of "faith in my fellow players" nonsense. As I have said before, these games have cured me of that, BTS MTDG II in particular. I trust the people I know, or ones that have been vouched for by people I know, period, just like in RL.

Last thing... This is unrelated really, but I was thinking Krill, if you feel really strongly about it, you could go over to CDZ, who AFAICT is not fielding a team (maybe you already have an account there) and form a team and invite all the lurkers who can't find a home to join your CDZ team. Shabbaman can give you join permissions and then you can accept whoever you want to... just a thought

 

[Krill]

So to get us started on the right foot... I conceed to pretty much everything you said in your last post, but that brings us full circle to this point which I want to discuss... WHY DID RB RESTRICT ACCESS? To me this is the only issue. IMO, RB restricted access because THEY DON'T TRUST those lurkers who were trying to join. So if they don't trust them, why should I?

This is a really good point, and one you should actually address to RB: I had no idea they were going to straight up ban people from playing.

This is what they posted publicly:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost.php?p=251566&postcount=52

1) This is an overtly competitive game, and we're approaching it with a more competitive spirit than most RB events.

2) Our fellow players do not all share our sportsmanship and sense of fair play. There have been instances of cheating in past demogames, as well as similar instances in other civ games from players on some of the other teams.

3) We need our subforum to be a place where people can be totally candid. Several players have indicated they would feel a chilling effect on what they would be willing to post or discuss with unlimited entry to the subforum. Of course most people would prove trustworthy, but past experience has shown a mere suspicion of compromised information can be unsettling to players.

1) is a non sequitur. This is a game where most players do not know each other, so being competitive isn't an excuse to play with people you don't know. FWIW, the majority of the players on RB have not played with each other either, they have just played in games on the same forum.

2) is the same point as above, with the same counter argument. The specific example that RB are referring to is Calanthian, which I explained and linked to in the other thread; I personally do not believe that Calanthian would cheat again, to put this into context.

3) is effectively a trust issue on the part of the players on RB, and a misunderstanding. They are thinking in terms of global lurkers, and not in terms of team mates which the new players would be. They are using experiences gained from playing PBEMs and PB games with open threads for anyone to look at, and transferring them to this game with locked fora. The players do not understand the difference, whereas I think that the players on CFC will understand more about demogames having hosted them continually now for about 6 years IIRC. Being candid in a forum is still possible with or without new players there, but RB players think that players on other teams would cheat and spy on the forum. Same argument as point 2.


Hence I think that RB is being illogical in not accepting new posters, and that their paranoia is not a reason for other people to feel or do the same that they have done.

If it comes down to a straight forward "I will play with people I trust" ideal, then why are you playing with so many people on other teams that you have no experience with?

I conceed to pretty much everything you said in your last post

You trust them not to cheat, and you don't know them. You don't know the new posters, but you don't trust them. It is an illogical position to take.