Challenge-I-08

So, having low water vs. high made a huge difference - no huge waves of barbs.

Being in a corner helps.

Multiple cities help, too... but they do make for more places to defend.

Bad idea: send a stack out hunting without a stack at home.

I've tried just about every variation I can think of. Had some games go as late as 1600AD even - and a lot of that depends on how long you can stay unknown. But generally when the AI get siege units and have met me and march them across the map, I can no longer stay on the offensive, and inevitably end up getting rolled.

But I always have trouble in games where the goal is a concerted and sustained war. (Strike and consolidate; rinse and repeat... that's my play style usually). Not ever any chance to consolidate here. I'll have to take my game up another notch to finish this one.
 
My thoughts on this, after having finished one:

1) I went low sea - most everyone else seems to have gone medium. That's probably smart - low land allows the AI to expand a lot, which is a pain. On the other hand, the AI teched really slowly, probably because they expanded and crashed their economy, so maybe it wasn't such a bad plan.
2) These settings cry out for a specialist economy. I did much of a my research at 10-30% science, powered by representation specialists. I didn't make a single cottage (which, btw, is the first time I have ever run an economy this way)
3) Espionage and spies are your friend. I ran into a lot of walls, and spies taking them down helped
4) I never researched education. I did get curaissers. Once you get curaissers vs. longbows, don't bother with trebs. Just kill cities. trebs slow you down
5) Don't keep that many cities. I kept way too many.
6) Kill a civ completely. I let isabella hang around while I dealt with a closer civ and I ran into weariness problems.
7) Build statue of zeus - it's better for you to not have to deal with weariness.
8) Keep a stack at home and watch the approaches. Late in the game, pericles snuck a stack along the southern edge. fortunately, he was way behind in tech and the cap was making 1 turn curaissers, so it was dealt with pretty easily, but it worried me some.
 
Domination 1762AD

Well, which is it:
a) I'm a whole lot better player now than when this Challenge series started
b) I got a funky map that by freak of fate finally gave me an easy game
c) I read other peoples logs and copied what they did right
or the answer I think is right...
d) All of the above. ;)

I think having a tech path that gave me what I needed WHEN I needed it was a key parameter. Maces right when the enemy is mounting serious stacks of melee. Currency right when the economy is in the red. Math just as the Pyramids needed chopping. etc.

I followed the tech path of the leader(s) and marked at what points they got what wonders, and marked at what points they founded cities. I followed this with only minor modifications to suit the situation along the way. The only deviation is that I never got Stonehenge until I captured Thebes, but this was not important. I got GWall (Raging Barbs), Pyramids, ToA (by GE), Oracle (CS-Sling) and U of Sankore (by GE). I was planning to take out first opponent with Axes, but decided without Cats that would be a lot of losses, so I choked Izzy instead, pillaging her metal. (I did not have iron until I capture Madrid much later, and only have copper because I settle StP 8-10 tiles away.

I was suprised that although I bordered 2 AI, they didn't really send stuff my way until I was able to get Machinery (basically beelined after CS), and then it was easy to handle. I was suprised that I could run Caste System (rather than slavery) up until that point (after CoL). My slider was on 0% science the whole way, but I still led the board in tech... but the board only had 3 AI (Izzy, Mao, and Ramses). I was suprised no contact from any others until Mao is dead. It was the funky map... Peri and Wang were in a corner that was inaccessible without galleys, and I never saw them... and when I did I figured planting settlers and killing the barb nation (and building wealth) would get the win faster than an amphibious invasion because by now they are in tech parity (knights, trebs, maces, pikes, LB's). On my side of the map (roughly 80% of the land area I think), I never faced even a longbow until I was more than half way done with the barb cities.

Too easy, after all that frustation I had with this one earlier. Stacks that survive >95% are so much simpler to work with... you can build wealth as needed instead of just units and more units. I was centered in the AI on my side, though Asoka was cut off by barbs and didn't find him until late (and noted big barb city named Bombay):lol: He only had 3 cities when I got to him, and one was brand new.

I took it to Izzy first, then on to Mao. Mao is down to 3 little cities when Ramses settles on my southern borders with a settler he squeezed past a barb city. I then opened a second front and actually finished Egypt (3 whole cities) before I was able to mop up Mao. Wang and I start making rude gestures across the gulf, but that is all. Asoka falls, and I find mountain barrier preventing access to Greece and Korea.

Peri would have eventually won a culture victory if I let this drag on until 1950 or so, but I had other plans. Killing barb cities is like shooting ducks in a pond when you own the GW. Judicious micromanagement inside cities enabled me to keep settling without crashing the economy... I had planned for a golden age at the end if it became a crisis... but since it never did my last GE went unused.

Lots of GG's: first three were settled in three of my settled own cities, so that all units start with 2 promos. Fourth was made a super-medic, and then I settled the rest. Never built the Heroic Epic since I was too busy building wealth in my production cities, and already had enough units anyhow. I was in slavery in the end to whip courthouses (chop aided whips). I had built the Confu shrine so I spread the religion a bit once the endgame strategy was decided upon.

Nice to see that I have the fastest Domination victory posted. ;) Even nicer is that this entry is not in last place (yet). Now on to Deity and the completion of this challenge series!

:woohoo:
 
My thoughts on this, after having finished one:

1) I went low sea - most everyone else seems to have gone medium. That's probably smart - low land allows the AI to expand a lot, which is a pain. On the other hand, the AI teched really slowly, probably because they expanded and crashed their economy, so maybe it wasn't such a bad plan.

Just curious... on the boreal map I used, the sea level is set at high seas and is greyed out (cannot be changed). Am I missing something?
 
Just curious... on the boreal map I used, the sea level is set at high seas and is greyed out (cannot be changed). Am I missing something?

The map-setup keeps this setting from the previous map ... whether it really changes the level of the water or not, I do not know ...
 
Just curious... on the boreal map I used, the sea level is set at high seas and is greyed out (cannot be changed). Am I missing something?

What you can do is change the map to pangea or something, then change the settings, then change it back to boreal.

I think it does make a difference - on high water, I'd get 3 or more barb archers eating me before i could get the wall up, on low water, I wouldn't see a barb for a long time.
 
The map-setup keeps this setting from the previous map ... whether it really changes the level of the water or not, I do not know ...
The technique above does change the sea level; for instance on rainforest, you can sometimes have access to seafood in little oceans with the high seas setting.
 
woohoo!! out of curiosity, why ToA?

I got a Great Engineer and ToA was the only wonder that was available (or would become available for a very long time). IIRC Buffy said it would give me 1 hammer, 1 gold, and 1 culture (+GM points). I probably should have just settled him for +6 beakers and +3hammers... but I was actually following a recipe that had produced the ToA right after MetalCasting. It might even have been your game? Or perhaps someone elses. Certainly it offered little improvement in any of the foriegn trade... but perhaps its value was denied from my rivals?

The main deviation from my early game was unlike the 1st place submission, I was unable to get BW from a hut on the first turn (had huts turned off, actually).

The tech path was this:

BW-Wheel-Mason-AH(Great Wall)-Writing(library by whip/found StPetes)-Myst-Agri(found Novograd; SH should have been here but Egypt got it first and I was still working on Pyramids anyhow)-Math(bulb)(Pyramids)-Poly-PH(found Rostov)-CoL(Oracle had to hold at 1 turn until CoL done 8-12 turns later)-CS(by Oracle)-Pottery-MC(ToA by GE)-Construction-Currency-Ironworking-?Machinery-Archery...

You might find some similarities to the game logs from one of the top submissions.:mischief:

I regen'd until I got stone in the start, since that's the only way I can think to meet this schedule. First stone start I got had no food, but then I hit this one with 2-deer, 1-sheep, stone, and gems (turned out to be 2-gems in bfc after I settled and defogged the remaining tiles). So I was actually able to follow the tech schedule faster than the build schedule, but tried to keep them in sync as much as possible. I was ready to resign if I failed on any of the GW/Pyramids/Oracle(CS-sling).

StP went far to get the copper (after StP's first border pop I had 3 tiles of road outside GW protection keeping the copper hooked up). Ended up touching Izzy's cult borders.

I did not build any cottages until after 1000AD (took me that long to find any green tiles!). Settled most GPeople except the engineers (1-ToA, 1-Sankore, 1-bulb 3/4 of Engineering, 1-settled, 1 held at end for Golden Age that never was used). Only national wonder built was Forbidden Palace (in Shanghai) since I waited so long for Literature that NE/HE would have been waste of hammers. Never got to Education.

Specialist economy alone is sufficient, especially with Sankore and the +2 beakers per Confu building that they offer. Shrine with market/grocer/bank is quite powerful, also. Cottages are optional -- good for pillaging income, not much else. ;)

I still think the map was very weird. The land in both NW and SE corners was blocked off (NW was galley accessible but had to go the long way around the bay, and SE was totally locked in by mountains and uninhabited). I only had to deal with 4 AI. I never had contact with more than 3 living AI at the same time, even! Take a look:

View attachment 243291

I had no idea you could manipulate sea levels on the maps where it is greyed out!!! Learn something new each day. However... I still would have chosen High Seas if I planned on a GWall strategy. Like you say, it makes the barbs even bigger nuisance.
 
huh - I did build the ToA. Musta been for the GP points. I actually built a bunch of wonders - Wall, Pyramids, Stonehenge, ToA, GLib, Parthenon, Oracle, plus NE and HE.

I dunno - looking back, I'd probably just use the ToA and GLib hammers for maces. Statue of Zeus was one I wish I had built, same as MoM. Golden ages would have been useful in this one for the production boosts.
 
huh - I did build the ToA. Musta been for the GP points. I actually built a bunch of wonders - Wall, Pyramids, Stonehenge, ToA, GLib, Parthenon, Oracle, plus NE and HE.

I dunno - looking back, I'd probably just use the ToA and GLib hammers for maces. Statue of Zeus was one I wish I had built, same as MoM. Golden ages would have been useful in this one for the production boosts.

Funny... based on your comments I was kind of disappointed that I never got a shot at building the SoZ. However, since I didn't met its owner (Greece?) until its was settler-planting time in the 1400's or so, it would have been a complete waste for me to build it. I didn't need extra war weariness on the AI since they never got longbows, x-bows, or maces. Wang and Peri combined battles: Korean caravel defeats Russian galley. That's it.:cool:

Should have just turned off research completely at about 1Ad. Oh wait... I did turn off research at about 1 AD, or even earlier... but the techs just kept coming. So my later techs were kind of randomly picked. Built maybe 5 or 6 knights. 1 pike. Rset was maces and cats, later trebs. :crazyeye: Not what I expected from earlier tries. Thank goodness Wang never got the idea to put his 60+ maces/trebs/pikes/knights on a galley.:lol: I had most of my cities with 1 (or fewer) defenders at the end.
 
Trying this again after a few weeks layoff:

Popped Bronze Working on the first turn. I'm in the corner with 3 seafood and my capital is on a hill. I don't feel the need for the Great Wall, despite Raging Barbs being on. Is, beelining for CS-slingshot, then machinery, then a mace and cat attack a pretty good plan?

 
Only one way for the AI to come. If I could get a 2nd city up near the deer, it would be an ideal chokepoint. An AI has a city where it says "Masonry 10", but that AI hasn't discovered me yet. Time to run away. Lacking copper, still planning to build Pyramids and Oracle for CS-sling.

 
Sure, I can build GW, Pyramids possibly Oracle, too, but then I have no defense when the AI shows up.
 
get a start with stone and 3 or 4 deer, maybe a gem. hunting, masonry, BW. then get writing for a couple of scientists for an academy and a bunch of settled scientists. Never need a cottage ;)

If you get a lot of barb archers, try more land. I found that at high water, I got overrun a bunch - at low, no barbs came near me. I dunno about medium.
 
Sure, I can build GW, Pyramids possibly Oracle, too, but then I have no defense when the AI shows up.

I found that if you don't build the GW, someone else will... and if it is a neighbor the barbs will seem like raging even if you didn't turn on that setting. Its much cheaper than building all the units otherwise needed as escorts and barb defense (not to mention the cost of having your land pillaged). Normally, I'd forget the GWall in a military type game because killing them is cheap XP for your units. But your units will get plenty of XP in this one. In fact, enough fighting will be inside your borders to make up for any barb XP you miss. And with Asoka in there, the barbs are likely to do much of the job for you if you let them rage.

But the map is pretty important... anything you do can look brilliant if you get the right map.
 
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