If I come off racist here Im not going to apologize because this is my opinion and I have a right to it. But anyway if we want to compare how legitimate the choices for Civs are I just have one point to make about the Iroquois. Most westerners associate culture with an ability to make frikin huge buildings I do think this is a very common misconception culture isnt measured in how tall your structures are but in my opinion how you present yourself to future generations. Having little or no written language we today cant judge the Native Americans against many European civilizations. The winners write the history and writing none themselves we conclude the Native Americans are the losers. The truth isnt politically correct.
Changes to some annoying name errors, plus Canada civ
- Thread starter Wyz_sub10
- Start date
GenghisVick
Chieftain
Canada is a large country but I would hardly consider them expansioist! Most of their land is tundra!!! I really don't see why anyone would want to include Canada other then the national pride reason.
You're right - just for the national pride reason.
I'm surprised that so many people pounce when someone introduces a new civ. What's the big deal? I'm sure someone playing in Malaysia wants to introduce a Malaysian civilization. If it helps them enjoy the game, more power to them.
I made civs and unique units for Spain, Vikings, Mongols, Arabs, Incas and Canada, but only included the Canada made here because 1) adding new civs does not work properly and I didn't want to replace a whole batch of civs, and 2) file size limitations.
Anyway, it's a little pathetic to see people up in arms over home country mods.
I'm surprised that so many people pounce when someone introduces a new civ. What's the big deal? I'm sure someone playing in Malaysia wants to introduce a Malaysian civilization. If it helps them enjoy the game, more power to them.
I made civs and unique units for Spain, Vikings, Mongols, Arabs, Incas and Canada, but only included the Canada made here because 1) adding new civs does not work properly and I didn't want to replace a whole batch of civs, and 2) file size limitations.
Anyway, it's a little pathetic to see people up in arms over home country mods.
Canadria
Chieftain
I'm glad.
As to the rest, I agree that there are alot more Civs that would be better suited for the game, that being said I think that having the Iroquois is a good idea, although it should have been called something different. 6 Nations or 1st Nations would be a much more appropriate name. I say it was a good idea because there are civs representing all areas of the world old and new. Withought anything from Old North America, it would be lacking.
As to their culture, they were more culturally and artisticly diverse and advanced than the so called "advanced" people that conquered them.
There is a huge difference in my mind between someone who builds huge building and someone who cares about the people in their civ. The natives didn't see a need to advance past where they were. That was a choice.
brrrrrett
Chieftain
Okay so the Iroquois were still running around in buckskin and firing bows and arrows at well drilled troops with rifles in the 19th Century but the whole wondorus beauty of all the Civ games is that no history is absolute and nothing is yet written. Maybe if the Iroquois had YOU as their leader things would have been different and it would have been the Iroquois crossing the Atlantic in ironclad to pound the docks at Plymouth. Each Civilization certainly had the potential to rule the world when their first tribe put up camp. Even the English, the Chinese and other acknowledged greats once lived in holes in the ground and banged rocks together for fun. And as we all know only too well, what is better in Civ than the warm lucious feeling one gets when a heavy lumbering modern armour unit does mortal combat with an eager sweaty spear man. Mmmm.... carnage!
dannyevilcat
DESTROYER OF FURNITURE
Of course that's the reason. I love my country, but it has no natural business being a "civilization" along with Egypt or Rome.
Expansionist still stands for me though. Look at Russia... also vast amounts of tundra (although Canada is NOT mostly tundra.)Yes, expansionist ability simulates population growth too, which isn't totally fitting for Canada, but the scout is a good surrogate for european explorers.
What are you talking about? Where you there? Where you an Native American? of course they wanted to exand technologically thats why when Europeans came here they traded for guns. and saying they were more cultually advanced thats a laugh take a trip to the Vatican and then compaire culture. I bet you cant name one natvie american art peice. Dont portray people as something if you have no proof to back it up.
I think the prevailing theory is that there was no stimulation for advancement in the Americas as there was in Europe.
There is a "pinwheel" theory of technology that says that a culture acquires 9 things from other cultures for every 1 thing it produces itslelf. This was certainly true for European cultures. Add to that a social and political environment promoting competition and new ideas, plus neighbouring countries creating a new for defence, and it's not hard to see why technology advanced as it did in Europe.
One need look no further than the late Ming dynasty in China to see what happens when a country stops interacting with other nations.
That's basically the position the Americas were in. The Eurpeans had a huge head start with better opportunities for agriculture and domestication.
There is a "pinwheel" theory of technology that says that a culture acquires 9 things from other cultures for every 1 thing it produces itslelf. This was certainly true for European cultures. Add to that a social and political environment promoting competition and new ideas, plus neighbouring countries creating a new for defence, and it's not hard to see why technology advanced as it did in Europe.
One need look no further than the late Ming dynasty in China to see what happens when a country stops interacting with other nations.
That's basically the position the Americas were in. The Eurpeans had a huge head start with better opportunities for agriculture and domestication.
Tarquelne essentially made this point already, but Civ is a game of "might have been." You get to make the choices that give a Civ its alternate history.
Using your criteria, many of the Civs (e.g., the Egyptians) should not be included because they did not "stand the test of time."
Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary:
Main Entry: civ·i·li·za·tion
Pronunciation: "si-v&-l&-'zA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1772
1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained
b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place.
IMHO, the "anti-anyone else" community should maybe brush up on their english. Check out a dictionary or two when they have time.
Canadria: Impressive! Where did you find that list?
The rest of you: Why should Canada, USA, or any other "modern" nation meet a more stringent criteria of "civilization" than that which is applied to older nations?
What do they write in European history books anyways? A bunch of barbarians from somewhere called North America saved us? They are NOT a civilization I tell you! They were barbarians that saved our glorious civilization! Uh huh... Tell me more please.
PS. someone teach me how to install a mod. I'm as close to computer-illiterate as it gets, and I'm a little curious about this Canadian mod pack.
:frog:
I would like to say the same thing to you, but do not want to damage my credibility.
A quote from Native American Religions by Arlene Hirschfelder and Paulette Molin (Facts on File, New York, 1992, ISBN 0-8160-2017-5) is instructive:
".....the North American public remains ignorant about Native American religions. And this, despite the fact that hundreds of books and articles have been published by anthropologists, religionists and others about native beliefs......Little of this scholarly literature has found its way into popular books about Native American religion..."
Yet Natives culture and religion should be valued. They have made many contributions to North American society:
an awareness of concern for the environment
food staples such as corn, beans, squash, potatoes and sweet potatoes
the design of the kayak, toboggan and snowshoe
the original oral contraceptive
cotton
over 200 drugs, derived from native remedies
It is ironic that the wine that is the Christians' most sacred substance, used in the Mass to represent the blood of their God, has caused such a trail of devastation within Native populations. And the Natives' most sacred substance, tobacco, has caused major health problems for so many Christians.
Of course, you would have to read the entire contents to get a real understanding of how grand North American culture was before we destroyed their civilization.
muppet,
To install, unzip the files to a temp directory. Copy the civ3mod.bic into the main Civ3 directory (it will overwrite the existing one).
Then copy the two .txt files into the the Text folder. (I might have left them out of the zip, dammit...here's a new zip)
I could not fit the unique unit into the zip file. So to get the unique unit:
- Go to the Art/Units folder in Civ3.
- make a **copy** of the 'Settler' folder and name the copy 'Voyageur'
- in that new folder, leave everything the same except rename settler.ini to voyageur.ini
As for the pcx files, I cannot get them to work properly, so you may as well not worry about them (the game will use defaults). (FYI - they go in the Civilopedia/Icons folder)
To install, unzip the files to a temp directory. Copy the civ3mod.bic into the main Civ3 directory (it will overwrite the existing one).
Then copy the two .txt files into the the Text folder. (I might have left them out of the zip, dammit...here's a new zip)
I could not fit the unique unit into the zip file. So to get the unique unit:
- Go to the Art/Units folder in Civ3.
- make a **copy** of the 'Settler' folder and name the copy 'Voyageur'
- in that new folder, leave everything the same except rename settler.ini to voyageur.ini
As for the pcx files, I cannot get them to work properly, so you may as well not worry about them (the game will use defaults). (FYI - they go in the Civilopedia/Icons folder)
I have update the Canada/name mod with the civilopedia entries that I might have omitted from the first version.
The updated post is found above this one, or at the beginning of the thread.
Also, check out Apolyton for the new civ city/leader name list being done by darkangel and myself. (new cities and leader names for the original civs in the game)
The updated post is found above this one, or at the beginning of the thread.
Also, check out Apolyton for the new civ city/leader name list being done by darkangel and myself. (new cities and leader names for the original civs in the game)
happybudda
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2001
- Messages
- 1
Here's some food for thought. What about the Polynesian peoples? They are most definitly the most ancient "civilization". While they did not contain the most orginization, they were definitly very advanced when they made their move. I'd love to a see a Polynesian mod. I probably won't go to this board anymore, so any questions or insults you toss my way will most likely go unheard.
?????
Why would you assume people will insult you? In a poll on what 10 new civs would you like to see added I asked for an Australoasian civ (polynesian/melanesian).
I think such a mod would be a good idea (with a marine specialty unit - perhaps an ocean going trieme).
Why would you assume people will insult you? In a poll on what 10 new civs would you like to see added I asked for an Australoasian civ (polynesian/melanesian).
I think such a mod would be a good idea (with a marine specialty unit - perhaps an ocean going trieme).
the_chip_monk
Chieftain
Guys, regarding the Iroquois civ debate... consider a different criterion.
The question is not "Was this a great civilization to stand the test of time". The question is "Does playing this Civ make for a good piece of alternative history?" By that metric, clearly the North American First Nations, as represented by the Iroquois, clearly qualify.
Regarding the Canadians civ, well, realize that America is really a recent extension of the English civilization... so really, it's a Home Country Civ. Same as Canada, Malaysia, or Lebanon... but as a large country there's a lot more people intrested in playing it, so it goes in the original game. For me, conquering the world with rampaging legions of Mounties is fun, if utterly unrealistic (one of Canada's defining qualities is that we have zero interest in ruling the world or indeed _anybody_ else, so even if we were to somehow in a position to enter on such an enterprise, we would no longer be the country I love).
-Phil
The question is not "Was this a great civilization to stand the test of time". The question is "Does playing this Civ make for a good piece of alternative history?" By that metric, clearly the North American First Nations, as represented by the Iroquois, clearly qualify.
Regarding the Canadians civ, well, realize that America is really a recent extension of the English civilization... so really, it's a Home Country Civ. Same as Canada, Malaysia, or Lebanon... but as a large country there's a lot more people intrested in playing it, so it goes in the original game. For me, conquering the world with rampaging legions of Mounties is fun, if utterly unrealistic (one of Canada's defining qualities is that we have zero interest in ruling the world or indeed _anybody_ else, so even if we were to somehow in a position to enter on such an enterprise, we would no longer be the country I love).
-Phil
In Civ3, you start out with one lonely settler and not with a fully developed civ. That settler finds a small village, and through the passing of time, forms a civ. So in that since Egypt, China, and India are all civ that started around 4000bc.
unknown
Chieftain
First of all, as said before, America is simply in the game to please the large American market. Maybe the game developers thought the American population would purchase or enjoy the game more?
Who knows? Who cares? If you want a game that will perfectly dictate history then look else where, it's a stratagy game not a simluation.
Second, so why can't Canada be in the game? Cause some of you uneducated people out there think we Canadians still live in icegloos and hunt for our food? People who are unware of Canada's accomplish can do nothing but trash on them? Look back some posts and you'll see a long list of Canada's achievement... we're not just about ice and fishing.
Either way... I don't consider Canada much of a great civ in the sense of huge buildings and whatnot... but hey.. I'd enjoy the animated mounties take over the world hehe... but my FINAL point is that --- IT'S A GAME.. enjoy it... THE DEVELOPERS ARENT HISTORIANS... It's for fun... people arent meant to be educated with this software... they arent suppose to really learn about culture. So stop pounding on the historic errors... I'd be more instersting in fixing the gameplay bugs.
Who knows? Who cares? If you want a game that will perfectly dictate history then look else where, it's a stratagy game not a simluation.
Second, so why can't Canada be in the game? Cause some of you uneducated people out there think we Canadians still live in icegloos and hunt for our food? People who are unware of Canada's accomplish can do nothing but trash on them? Look back some posts and you'll see a long list of Canada's achievement... we're not just about ice and fishing.
Either way... I don't consider Canada much of a great civ in the sense of huge buildings and whatnot... but hey.. I'd enjoy the animated mounties take over the world hehe... but my FINAL point is that --- IT'S A GAME.. enjoy it... THE DEVELOPERS ARENT HISTORIANS... It's for fun... people arent meant to be educated with this software... they arent suppose to really learn about culture. So stop pounding on the historic errors... I'd be more instersting in fixing the gameplay bugs.
Canadria
Chieftain
Was I there? By that logic no civilization in the game belongs because none of us were here more than 100 years ago so we can't quite be sure.
Interesting point you have made... Europeans came here and traded for guns. First off, FEW tribes traded for gones and there were no trades on a national level. Additionally, not all Europeans traded for guns. How many swiss people came over here to trade for guns. Since you may make sweeping generalizations without logic so will I.
The people of Malta didn't come here and trade for guns.. Therefore no European came and traded for guns.
This is my favourite... All right here is a list from my personal Knowledge.....
Like the totem pole I can see out my window.....
How many people are there that have dream catchers.....
The Salish Long Boats.......
Coastal Long Houses...
The collection of pottery I have
The thousands of painting I have seen in people homes or businesses
Wooden statuettes..
Jewelry...
This is some
Name me a piece of art from the Zulus or the Aztecs or the Persians or the Russians or the Babylonians or the Romans.
Just because you are uneducated, don't assume the rest of us are. I also find it interesting that artisticly, the Aztec style of art was very similar the Six Nations, yet you don't debate them belonging.
Sounds like another product of the Revisionist History taught by the American public education system.
Canadria
Chieftain
I personally would love to add all possible civs. I fugure the more choice, the better the varied game will be...
Bring them on.....
