Choose-A-NES! (Vote for the next Alternate History AmenNES)

[Xen]

I doubt the Samnites would expand past Italy or even internally. They were warriors, yes, but they also had a bunch of rivals who were probably more than strong enough combined to stop their spread. There is little reason they should start expanding, and even if they did, then the Greeks would probably get involved, with drastic consequences due to the fact that Italy would now be very divided.

the exact same thing coudl be said abotu the Romans durign that period in time.

 

[Insane_Panda]

*samnite empire*

God Allah and Glory sounds fun. So does Pax denied, however.

 

[North King]

the exact same thing coudl be said abotu the Romans durign that period in time.

Not really... The Romans were relatively much greater in power to their enemies than the Samnites were, and the Samnites had a completely different outlook on the world than the Romans.

 

[blackheart]

Xen, the Etruscans were around before the Romans. They didn't have a highly centralized government, therefore they weren't as aggressive in expanding as Romans.

And no, bunching up wasn't a standard tactic. Flexibility was standard for legions.

It's pointless to argue about this, because obviously it can go either way since it didn't happen . Maybe if the Iroquois League wasn't split they could have fended off the colonists. Maybe if the Aztec and Inca didn't think the Spaniards to be gods they would have survived. Maybe if the Mongols didn't lose their army in a hurricane in invading Japan they would still have an empire, etc. Do you see the point?

 

[Xen]

Not really... The Romans were relatively much greater in power to their enemies than the Samnites were, and the Samnites had a completely different outlook on the world than the Romans.

1)the samnitesd wer eon par with the romans; they ended up fighting 4 major wars, and numerour=s lesser fights with the Romans- even carthage couldnt manage what the samnites were ready, willing, and able to dish out at the Romans

2)in that the samnites conqoured for qonquests sake, and the Romans for defence sake, i suppose so.

 

[North King]

1)the samnitesd wer eon par with the romans; they ended up fighting 4 major wars, and numerour=s lesser fights with the Romans- even carthage couldnt manage what the samnites were ready, willing, and able to dish out at the Romans

On par? They had the umbrians, the Faliscans, etc. on their side to fight the Romans, a vast alliance, multiple times the size of the Romans, and still they were defeated!

Admittedly they faced the Romans a few times on their own, but they had the mountains on their side. Also apparently the intelligent generals, too...

2)in that the samnites conqoured for qonquests sake, and the Romans for defence sake, i suppose so.

The Romans conquered for defense sake? Because those Lustainians, Illyrians, Pontusians, Cappadocians, Phygrians, Armenians, Egyptians, etc all were such big threats to Rome?

 

[Xen]

Xen, the Etruscans were around before the Romans. They didn't have a highly centralized government, therefore they weren't as aggressive in expanding as Romans.

A)you have no idea what your talkign about- the etruscans had a long history of expansionism, they expanded thier influnce well into the boundaries of what was then firmlly celtic lands, copnqoured, and colonized themthem, developing the pilum javlin in the process; their influnce upon the celts and germanics was so profuond, that the famed Runeinc alphabet of Vking and Germanic noteritity is actually an import from the etruscans

B)it was a federal republic; each city had micromanagement overitself, but seede3d certian greater rights to the main council of cities

And no, bunching up wasn't a standard tactic. Flexibility was standard for legions.

no, they werent- flexibility only became a hallmark after the cohort was the firmlly established unit of tactics; at that point, tactcs were still left to the individual maniples, and its usefulness expanded little beyond having different maniples take eachothers place on the main battle line; th epunic wars themselves see th ebirth of the cohort, and its superior tacticle flexibility du eto its incresed size, but still relitivlly small size that the legion truelly take on the aspect of one of the greast armies of all time

It's pointless to argue about this, because obviously it can go either way since it didn't happen .

but it cannot- at any single point in time, even if the situation reverses, thie ris already a set number of divergences that may happen, due to prior events still shapeing the history- even if Rome did fall, every one in the med sea woudl still be guided by the principles that guided them in real life, before rome interfered significantlly with them

Maybe if the Iroquois League wasn't split they could have fended off the colonists. Maybe if the Aztec and Inca didn't think the Spaniards to be gods they would have survived. ---- etc. Do you see the point?

not really; most of those deal with culture- this time line dose not, and deal solelly with the military-political aspect of the world, and thierofre is still completelyl subject to eh culture that existed at the time, and the paths it drew for the cultures in their areas, and we can interperet these based on an analysis of history, predominantlyl based on a civlization/nations prior actions

Maybe if the Mongols didn't lose their army in a hurricane in invading Japan they would still have an empire,

of interest to note, a hurricane did NOT destroy the mongol fleets- crappy ships did- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110208

 

[Insane_Panda]

The Romans conquered for defense sake? Because those Lustainians, Illyrians, Pontusians, Cappadocians, Phygrians, Armenians, Egyptians, etc all were such big threats to Rome?

Well according to the Romans they did have the WMD.

 

[Xen]

On par? They had the umbrians, the Faliscans, etc. on their side to fight the Romans, a vast alliance, multiple times the size of the Romans, and still they were defeated!

Admittedly they faced the Romans a few times on their own, but they had the mountains on their side. Also apparently the intelligent generals, too...

dont forget the Ro,ans weren tfighting on thie rown in those wars either- the Osacans, the third most dominat ethnic group in Italy, sided with Rome, as did ,many fo the etruscans; the Umbrians were split betweenn loyalties, and the Faliscans didnt much matter

The Romans conquered for defense sake? Because those Lustainians, Illyrians, Pontusians, Cappadocians, Phygrians, Armenians, Egyptians, etc all were such big threats to Rome?

investigate them yourself- each and every dsingle one of them was either a threat or annexed itself(armenia) to the empire

 

[alex994]

Xen, do note that you have around 1/3 of the posts in this thread.. don't spam so much, your only fanning the flames by responding xen... make a thread for yourself in the history thread where you ppl can go battle it out...

 

[North King]

dont forget the Ro,ans weren tfighting on thie rown in those wars either- the Osacans, the third most dominat ethnic group in Italy, sided with Rome, as did ,many fo the etruscans; the Umbrians were split betweenn loyalties, and the Faliscans didnt much matter

They were examples. For the most part, though, most everyone was against Rome.

investigate them yourself- each and every dsingle one of them was either a threat or annexed itself(armenia) to the empire

Actually, NO, none of the ones I mentioned were direct threats to Rome, in most cases Rome perpetrated the act of war as an excuse for fighting. Oh, BTW, Armenia didn't really annex itself, at least, not without that huge Roman army in their nation, which is an excellent persuasive tool...

 

[Insane_Panda]

It isn't spamming, its all logical arguments. Its not like they are flaming each other.

 

[Xen]

They were examples. For the most part, though, most everyone was against Rome.

hardley; Rome had the two most populous ethnicites in th epeninsula on its side (because it already was th emost populous, and the oscans for most of thier history were on friendlly terms with the Romans) and of all th epeople in Italy, ONLY the samnites were cokmpletelly united agiast Rome, and thats ONLY in samnium proper; most of samniums expansions, such as the famed Sabines of epic tales, sided firmlly with Rome as well


[/quote]
Actually, NO, none of the ones I mentioned were direct threats to Rome, in most cases Rome perpetrated the act of war as an excuse for fighting. Oh, BTW, Armenia didn't really annex itself, at least, not without that huge Roman army in their nation, which is an excellent persuasive tool...[/QUOTE]

ALL of them made militaristic forays into either roman territory direct, or its allies, and so perpetrated an act of war on the Roman state, the exception being egypt and Aremnia- egypt condemned itself by interefering in Roman internal politics, and area any nation generally gets pisse doff at, as th emodern world rather clearlly demostrates

 

[fantasmo]

Here's the weakness in all of your debates:

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! ​

That's right. Anything could have happened, but it didn't. That's the thing about history, there's always unexpected twists and turns. Like why did the general of the Roman army bunch his troops together when fighting Hannibal? Why did Spartacus try to return to Rome? Etc.

Technically, quantam theory dictates that it did happen, an infinite amount of times, each with a different outcome based on every person's choices at the time. So, really, there is a timeline wehre everything they theorise about did happen. Just as there's a timeline wher I'm not a lazy slob.

 

[Xen]

Xen, do note that you have around 1/3 of the posts in this thread.. don't spam so much, your only fanning the flames by responding xen... make a thread for yourself in the history thread where you ppl can go battle it out...

while I do see your tryign to better the situation, and I respect your council, I must respond with a complete cliche'; "my fight is here"

 

[Xen]

Technically, quantam theory dictates that it did happen, an infinite amount of times, each with a different outcome based on every person's choices at the time. So, really, there is a timeline wehre everything they theorise about did happen. Just as there's a timeline wher I'm not a lazy slob.

HOWEVER; this NES isnt based on quantum theroy- it is a carbon copy of our history, and thus cultural developments in out history, EXCEPT Rome is defeated by the samnites; thus quantum theory counts for little; what you propose must be in a different reality, or universe; not this one, for this has already estbalishe ditself with a finite number of immediate possibilties, based on previous events, and actions (thank forum member perfection for all of his quantum knowledge for that response)

 

[North King]

hardley; Rome had the two most populous ethnicites in th epeninsula on its side (because it already was th emost populous, and the oscans for most of thier history were on friendlly terms with the Romans) and of all th epeople in Italy, ONLY the samnites were cokmpletelly united agiast Rome, and thats ONLY in samnium proper; most of samniums expansions, such as the famed Sabines of epic tales, sided firmlly with Rome as well

Only Samnium was fully against the Romans? Once their agressive intent was known, a heck of alot more then just samnium joined, I imagine.

ALL of them made militaristic forays into either roman territory direct, or its allies, and so perpetrated an act of war on the Roman state, the exception being egypt and Aremnia- egypt condemned itself by interefering in Roman internal politics, and area any nation generally gets pisse doff at, as th emodern world rather clearlly demostrates

Umm... No... Few of them made real forays into roman territory... Unless you'd like to dig up some evidence backing those claims, since I recall that few if any actually attacked Rome as the start of war.

Oh, and Egypt pretty much stayed out until Mouisser Anthony practically forced them in, and while they did step in at long last, this was directly after Octavian started portraying Cleo as a demon witch bent on destroying Rome.

 

[fantasmo]

HOWEVER; this NES isnt based on quantum theroy- it is a carbon copy of our history, and thus cultural developments in out history, EXCEPT Rome is defeated by the samnites; thus quantum theory counts for little; what you propose must be in a different reality, or universe; not this one, for this has already estbalishe ditself with a finite number of immediate possibilties, based on previous events, and actions (thank forum member perfection for all of his quantum knowledge for that response)

It can't be a carbon copy if something is different, therefore, quantum comes into play, and we have another universe.

 

[North King]

HOWEVER; this NES isnt based on quantum theroy- it is a carbon copy of our history, and thus cultural developments in out history, EXCEPT Rome is defeated by the samnites; thus quantum theory counts for little; what you propose must be in a different reality, or universe; not this one, for this has already estbalishe ditself with a finite number of immediate possibilties, based on previous events, and actions (thank forum member perfection for all of his quantum knowledge for that response)

Rome being defeated means everything changes, Samnium, even if it did build a empire that big, was a far different culture.

 

[Xen]

It can't be a carbon copy if something is different, therefore, quantum comes into play, and we have another universe.

A)read my post; a carbon copy UNTIL said event (the failing of Rome) took place; this is still well after all the cultures, such as carthage, in question have been estbalished, thus, thier culture still binds them, thier actions, and choices still bind them- your going on the weakest of tangents to try to win the argument, but it cant be won; if your goign to have a universe thus based, you are goign to HAVE to still live by the tentants of it, in this case, that carthage is still ruled by the actions, choices, and culture that ruled it in real life, and made the NES what it is supposed ot be- a revised version fo earths history, the same in every detial, OTHER then Romes failing; while thier may be an infinty of OTHER universes out thier, they are NOT th eparticuler universe the NES is slated to take part in.