City Worker Professions also requiring Equipment [OPEN]

[canexpthat]

I read the thread but I may have missed it.

Why it ok then to buy buildings? Is that not 'beaming' of goods?

Maybe not the right thread for my opinion here, but I also am not a fan of beaming buildings to get the non-hammer resources (stone, clay, tools). But I'm ok with beaming to get the hammers just because Civ games have always had that sort of option.

 

[raystuttgart]

Why it ok then to buy buildings?

I do not like that feature as well and never use it.
That is why I had implemented "Construction Supplies" as alternative.

But AI really needs to hurry construction sometimes.
Also it was already in Vanilla and some people like to use it ...

So I simply ignore it in my own games.

 

[raystuttgart]

I do not like "beaming" goods.
Only normal shipping with transports is immersive to me.

This here is by the way the post where I already answered to "beaming goods".
And I had also written there already as well that I hate the "hurry feature".

 

[OzzyKP]

Would it be possible to implement these professional equipment not as one time cost, but as resource that is used in production. For example you would need 1 tool per 1 lumberjack per 10 turns. These numbers are random and can and should be changed to balance things out.
And now, if you don't have tools/guns(hunter)/artisan equipment you either get malus and smaller production by 10%,20%..50% (depending how long your worker use old and damaged tools) OR providing right equipment is increasing production by certain amount.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm split on how to vote in the poll. I'm quite wary of further complexity/micro-managing, but I very much support advancing triangle trade and requiring players to buy resources from Europe. That's realistic and adds a new strategic dimension to the game. Maybe RedFox's suggestion would be a better way to implement it? Tools break and wear out after all. Provisions get consumed. I also like his idea that being improperly supplied doesn't make working impossible, it just makes it less efficient. To translate that into the real world, yes the Farmer could farm without a plow, etc. He could cobble things together with sticks and rocks, but he'd have much higher yield with proper iron tools.

 

[Nightinggale]

I see some issues with colony professions "eating" tools.

• It will be micromanagement hell with the current transport system
• Players will be hurt even more if they start somewhere without ore (it's bad enough as it is right now)
• It will likely be unbalanced because this will mainly hurt players, who are already struggling, making it even harder to catch up

I get what you are saying and it is indeed realistic. However I'm far from convinced it will make for good gameplay.

 

[devolution]

What @Nightinggale said and I'd also like to point out how AI-unfriendly this feature would be (However it would probably end up being implemented so that the AI would ignore the tool requirement which is highly un-immersive IMHO)

 

[Schmiddie]

I like this concept in principle and it would certainly be very immersive. However, I still have some concerns about the effort for the player.

If the AI cheats here (which it probably will), then it puts the player once again behind the AI, which will then rush away, especially in higher difficulty levels - even if you only ever have to equip the professions 1x (and the tools may come back into storage later when the profession is abandoned or changed).

You might have to absorb the extra effort somehow - e.g. with promotions for the city professions - even an expert might get better the longer he practices a profession. One could introduce 3 time-dependent promotions per profession, which could then lead to more products.

 

[raystuttgart]

You might have to absorb the extra effort somehow - e.g. with promotions for the city professions - even an expert might get better the longer he practices a profession. One could introduce 3 time-dependent promotions per profession, which could then lead to more products.

I am not a fan for Promotions for City Professions.

1) It would result in even more Yield spam ... which I would not like ... as there are enough bonusses already.
2) You would end up with incredible annoyance to pop-out workers from the City so they can be promoted ... very bad usability.
3) We already have learning by doing that allows Units to become Experts ... and this would be a competing / conflicting concept.
4) It would cause unnecessary micro-managment for hundreds of Units to be promoted once you have many cities.
5) 3 promotions per Profession would result in roughly 300 new Promotions ... an absolute mess in XML and very bad for performance.

So please no, trust me players would get annoyed by it soon ... it would scale very badly with the amount of Units in Cities.

 

[Schmiddie]

Point for you.

However, if we find no chance for a balance for the downside this feature has it would become a "no go" for me. It will definitely hurt the development of the colonies of a player badly and the player should not be able to compete with the AI anymore unless he finds 2-3 gold ressources.

 

[Nightinggale]

I do not like the complexity of citizen promotions. It adds complexity for the player and for the code. On top of that I suspect adding it in code might done within reasonable time, but getting it to work flawlessly and well balance will take ages.

 

[raystuttgart]

I do not like the complexity of citizen promotions.

We already agreed not to do it.

 

[Schmiddie]

The longer I play again the more I like this feature to be implemented. Maybe we can give it a chance to be implemented (the details still can be discussed) if we ever implement new bigger features.