Civ-Enabled Policies, ideas thread

[Pazyryk]

This mod system is entirely built including UI, but doesn't have any individual policies yet. I only have a list of Policy names without effects (mostly). So I desperately need suggestions and (possibly just as important) some organizational help.

These appear as a "policy branch" in the lower right corner of the Policy Overview. It is opened when you gain your civilization name. Each civ will see four to seven extra policies here enabled specifically for the civilization. Most are shared by >1 civ but a few (particularly the "row 3" ones) are specific to only one or two civilizations. We could potentially have a "finisher" (when a civ finishes all enabled-policies for their own civ) but I wouldn't worry about that until we have added all of these below.

What I really strongly prefer are simple mechanics that are known to work from base Civ5 or other mods. Or effects that play off Éa-specific mechanics like Morale, KM, Animals, etc. (it's much easier for me to mod my own systems than fix Firaxis' systems that don't work). In general, if it takes more than one sentence to explain a policy effect, it is too complicated. Don't worry if your suggestions seem too obvious. It's true that too many yield effects gets a little boring. But we want the vast majority of these to be simple and obvious (and easy for me to add ). What I'll probably do is take the most completed suggestion list and then intersperse with suggestions from others that I think are simple and interesting.

Some in the list play off Éa mechanics that aren't added yet, like the Underdark related ones for Heldeofol and the Ur civ, or Ice Lords for the (not yet added) Hyperborea civ. It's likely you don't have enough information to know what is needed for these. But feel free to make suggestions on these anyway (it's just less likely to be used).

The list below isn't quite complete. It was designed to fit the needs of the first 30 or so civilizations. It'll fit the needs of most of the remaining except for a few gaps -- i.e., maybe 5-10 more policies to fit some missing civ-focuses which I'll add soon.

Here are the names with prereqs (a few have tech prereqs). The exact position of each policy in the branch window can vary for each civ, but "row" below is usually correct (constrained by policy prereqs). I'll update this OP with effects over time. When it is "complete" with effects that I can reasonably add in a reasonable time frame, I'll add them all en masse for a new mod version. And before you ask: Yes, I'll up the Approach CL level calculation to allow all civs to achieve more total policies in a game.

--"one-offs" (no policy prereq and no policy has it as a prereq)

• Mistics +1 culture and 10% mana/faith from monuments
• Divinators +5 Divination Modifier
• Conjurors (Tech: Conjuring) +5 Conjuration Modifier
• Enchanters (Tech: Enchantment) +5 Divination Modifier
• Illusionists (Tech: Illusion) +5 Divination Modifier

--row 1 (prereq for row 2 policy)

• Woodsmen Recon units gain +15% combat and have no movement penalty in Forests and Jungles
• Nomads +1c for every 3 plots owned by each city (only 1 city can own a plot)
• Pastoralists +1p1c from Pastures
• Hunters +25% production for Hunters and all Recon units
• Archers +25% production for archer and horse-mounted Archer lines
• Seafarers +1 movement and visibility for all Naval units
• Whalers +1f1p1c from worked Whale plots; +1p per owned Whale from Whalery
• Farmers +10%f from Granaries
• Traders +2g for each Trader specialist
• Craftsmen +2c for each Artisan specialist
• Scholars +2s for each Scribe specialist
• Engineers (Tech: Construction) +2p for each Smith specialist
• Herbalists Gain 2 nearby Moly; +3f3m from improved Moly
• Alchemists (Tech: Alchemy) Gain 2 nearby Cinnabar;+3p3s from improved Cinnabar
• Bards +5 Barding Modifier [Barding policy changed to: -20% turns to complete all Epics]
• Missionaries Proselytize action takes 6 rather than 8 turns
• Miners +1p from all mines
• Smelters +50% strategic resources for Copper, Iron and Mithril
• War Tacticians +33% flanking bonus; +33% bonus for adjacent units (stack with other such effects)
• Aristocrats +10% Gold and Culture from capital
• Slavers +25% work rate for Slaves (same as Worker)
• Envoys Differing race penalties for diplomatic relationships reduced by 50% for both full civs and city states

--row 2 (prereq for row 3 policy and has row 1 prereq)

• Forest Lords (Woodsmen) No movement penalty in Forests/Jungle for any units; forest and jungle act as road for the purpose of internal trade routes and caravan travel distance
• Tundra Nomads (Nomads) +1f1p for every 7 Tundra or Snow plots owned by each city
• Desert Nomads (Nomads) +1f1p for every 7 Desert plots owned by each city
• Animal Breeders (Pastoralists / Tech: Animal Breeding) Gain 2 nearby random pasture resources; small per turn chance for additional pasture-resources to spawn
• Horse Tribes (Pastoralists / Tech: Horseback Riding) Gain 2 nearby Horses; +50% Horses strategic resource
• Elephant Tamers (Hunters) Gain 2 nearby Elephants; +50% Elephants strategic resource
• Animal Masters (Hunters) Recon units can take the Animal Master promotion allowing capture of defeated Animal units (civs at peace with Animals can challenge individual units, converting them to hostile temporarily)
• Bowyers (Archers) Gain 2 nearby Yew; +50% Yew strategic resource
• Caravaners (Traders) +50% range for Land Trade Routes
• Sea Traders (Traders, Seafarers) +50% range for Sea Trade Routes
• Ship Builders (Seafarers) +25% production for all Naval units
• Merchants (Traders) +2g per Trade Route; +5 Trade Modifiers for all Merchants
• Millers (Farmers) +1f1p per Watermill and Windmill
• Weavers (Craftsmen) +1g1c per Textiles Plantation
• Brewers (Craftsmen) +1g1c per Brewery and Winery
• Jewelers (Craftsmen) +1g1c from improved Gems and Oysters
• Gold- & Silversmiths (Craftsmen) +1g1c from improved Gold and Silver
• Philosophers (Scholars / Tech: Philosophy) +5 Scholarship Modifier for all Sages
• Astronomers (Scholars or Seafarers / Tech: Astronomy) +33%s from Observatories; +1m for all Naval units
• Divine Scholars (Scholars / Tech: Divine Liturgy) -20% research cost and knowledge maintenance for all divine techs leading to Knowledge of Heaven
• Arcane Scholars (Scholars / Tech: Thaumaturgy) -15% research cost and knowledge maintenance for all arcane techs
• Zealots (Missionaries) Devouts have +5 Proselytizing Modifier.
• Potion Makers (Herbalists) [...wait for potions?...]
• Bakkheians (Bards) Double happiness from Wine, Ale and Spirits luxury resources
• Performers (Bards) +2c from Amphitheater, Theater and Opera House
• Mathematicians (Scholars / Tech: Mathematics) -15% research cost and knowledge maintenance for Mathematics, Coinage, Music, Alchemy, Mechanics, Banking, Chemistry, Engineering, Machinery, Architecture and Steam Power
• Stonemasons (Craftsmen) +1p from Quarries; +20% construction rate for Walls and Castle
• Civil Engineers (Engineers) +20% construction rate for Aqueducts, Sewers, Bath Houses and Catacombs; +1 health per city
• Machinists (Engineers / Tech: Machinery) +20% construction rate for all "construct" units (all siege, Landship and Airship) and Factory
• Architects (Engineers / Tech: Architecture) +1c from all buildings that provide culture
• Weapon Smiths (Smelters) Steel/Mithril Working boosts increased from +2/+4 to +3/+6
• War Strategists (War Tacticians) +5 Logistics Modifier to all Warriors
• Deep Miners (Miners / Tech: Deep Mining) Gain 2 random nearby mine resources; small per turn change for additional mine resources to spawn
• Underdark Denizens (Miners / Tech: Deep Farming) [...need to develop tech branch first...]
• Royalists (Aristocrats) +5 Leadership Modifier for all great people
• Slave Lords (Slavers) -5 happiness; +25% production in all cities
• Diplomats (Envoys) +5 Espionage Modifier (affects actions Cause Intrigue and Incite Revolution which will be in v8!)

--row 3 (has row 2 as prereq)

• Horselords (Horse Tribes) +1m and +20% str/rng for all horse-mounted units
• Ice Lords (Tundra Nomads) +10 hp healing and +33% str/rng for all combat units and +10 city strength on tundra or snow
• Desert Lords (Desert Nomads) +10 hp healing and +33% str/rng for all combat units and +10 city strength on desert
• Master Mercenaries (Merchants) +6 relationship with all full civs (or +20 anchor; -20% decay rate with all CSs) that have hired at least one mercenary from your civ
• Leviathan Hunters (Whalers, Animal Masters) +4 extended range for Whaling Boats; +4g/+2c from Whalery
• Naval Engineers (Ship Builders) +1m, +1 sight, +15% str/rng for all ships
• Advanced Agriculturalists (Millers) +1p per Farm; +1g1c per Orchard
• Exotic Traders (Caravaners, Sea Traders) +1g1c per Exotics Plantation
• Bankers (Merchants) Earn 1% interest on treasury per turn (stacks with other such effects)
• Marksmen (Bowyers) All archer and horse-mounted archer units of level 6 or higher gain the Marksmen promotion providing +33% ranged strength
• Master Weavers (Weavers) +4g2c from Textile Mills
• Master Brewers (Brewers) +3 happiness and +10%c from all cities with a Brewery
• Œnologists (Brewers) +1 happiness and +20%c from all cities with a Winery
• Theologists (Divine Scholars) -15% research cost and knowledge maintenance for all Divine techs
• Crusaders (Zealots) Receive Divine Favor from kills
• Demonologists (Arcane Scholars) Allied demons regenerate up to 15 hp every turn, consuming mana equal to hp regenerated
• Hell Denizens (Arcane Scholars) +2f1p from Blighted resources
• Master Arcanists (Arcane Scholars) -25% research cost and knowledge maintenance for all arcane techs (stacks with Arcane Scholars and all other effects)
• Master Performers (Performers) +5 Barding Modifier
• Master Mathematicians (Mathematicians) +10%p from Workshops; +33% str/rng for all land "war constructs" (includes all siege, landships and airships)
• Monument Builders (Stonemasons) +4c from all plot and city Wonders that have a yield.
• Master City Engineers (Civil Engineers) +2 health from Aqueducts, Sewers, Bath Houses and Catacombs.
• Beastmasters (Animal Masters) All units with the Animal Master promotion can take the Beastmaster promotion allowing capture of defeated Beast units (Griffons, Giant Spiders, and similar).
• Metaphysicists (Philosophers / Tech: Metaphysics) +33%s in all cities
• Cosmologists (Astronomy / Tech: Transcendental Thought) Reveals entire map
• Weapon Masters (Weapon Smiths) All living land combat units gain +1 combat strength per level
• Imperialists (Royalists) Effective population is reduced by 25% for Culture Level and Knowledge Maintenance calculations
• Underdark Lords (Underdark Denizens) [wait for mtn yield mechanism]
• Ambassadors (Diplomats) +6 relationship with all full civs; -25% decay rate for city state relationships

 

[BrokenSky]

You want suggestions for what the policies do, what policies each civ should have or both?

Assuming the first (at least):
Woodsmen: Military units get +10% Woods/jungle combat, +1 food and culture from improved woods and jungle.
Mystics: +1 culture and 10% mana/faith from monuments.
Divinators: GPs (except warrior) gain "foresight" giving 25% retreat chance against stronger enemies. Magic user Divination modifier starts higher and increases faster.
Conjurors: Summons 25% upkeep cost reduction. Magic user Conjuration modifier starts higher and increases faster.
Smiths: Mines on resources get +1 culture, forge gives +1 gold and culture. [if implemented] Created weapons and armour are higher quality.
Diplomats: Resting points with city states increased by 10, City State increase cost 25% less. Increase relations over time with all Civs you are not at war with.
Fairy Friendship: Large diplomacy boost to Fey relations. Small diplomacy boost to pantheistic civs.
Enchanters: +1 Local Happiness from Adepts specialist. Magic user Enchantment modifier starts higher and increases faster.
Illusionists: [If possible:] Enemy unit visibility range reduced by 1 while in your territory [else:] Illusion spells last 20% longer and are 10% harder to dispell. Magic user Illusion modifier starts higher and increases faster.

Can't suggest more now. Need to go; sorry.

 

[Pazyryk]

I'm only asking for what each do.

I'll start moving stuff up that looks easy. If it looks a little harder to implement, I might think about it for a while. Don't be discouraged. More interesting ideas are welcome but they run the risk of rejection for taking too long (thus holding up the whole system). On the other hand, I might like it enough to make the effort.

 

[Doopliss]

I probably need a hobby.

These suggestions vary from sort-of-inspired to very-uninspired, and while I tried to keep them plausible I'm not all that confident in their balance, but it might be easier to tease apart specific policy combos once they have some sort of context.

New suggestions:

Spoiler :

--"one-offs" (no policy prereq and no policy has it as a prereq)
• Woodsmen: If you’re not going to add the “no forest move penalty” to Forest Dominion, this is a good place.
• Divinators (I’d suggest Diviners)/Conjurors/Enchanters/Illusionists: Casters get +5 to appropriate spell school. I don’t see where else you can go with this, unless you want to double down on tech-cheapening.
• Smiths: +1g for every spare Copper/Iron, +1c for every spare Gold/Silver, +1g/c/p for every spare Mithril
• Diplomats: No racism penalties (except with Heldeofol), +10 CS resting point
• Fairy Friends: +relations with Fey/Gods would be fine, conditional on adding some uses for Fey/God relations

--row 1 (prereq for row 2 policy)
• Nomads: +2p/c from unimproved non-resource tiles (it’s okay if it’s not food, right?)
• Pastoralists: +1 p/c from Pastures.
• Hunters/Seafarers: +50% production when building Hunters/Work Boats.
• Archers: +4 Yew, +2 p/c from Yew? I’d be uneasy about making Archers too strong where you can already stack civ bonuses with militarism bonuses.
• Farmers: +1 p/g from Farms
• Traders/Scholars/Bards: +2 to appropriate specialist yield
• Herbalists: +2f/1c from Exotics Plantations, Textiles Plantations and Gatherer’s Huts
• Miners: +1 p/g from Mines
• Smelters: +2 p/g from Copper, Iron and Mithril, 50% more strategic Copper, Iron and Mithril
• Engineers (Tech: Engineering): +20% production toward buildings (Engineering is really late and out-of-the-way for a row-1 policy, though. Maybe just lose the tech requirement and lump it in with Traders etc)
• War Tacticians: +50% to flanking bonuses (more?)

--row 2 (prereq for others and has prereq)
• Tundra/Desert Nomads (Nomads): +1p/g from all Tundra/Desert tiles
• Animal Breeders (Pastoralists / Tech: Animal Breeding, Small chance for pasture-resources to spawn): It’ll be a and a half to balance, but it could be interesting
• Elephant Tamers (Hunters): Double Elephant/Mumakil strategic resources?
• Marksmen (Archers): +15% str/rng for Archers? I said I didn’t want to, but maybe at row 2…?
• Caravaners/Sea Traders (Traders/Traders, Seafarers): +1 trade routes, +50% distance on Land/Sea Trade Routes, can create/move Land/Sea Trade Routes without a Merchant
• Ship Builders (Seafarers): Naval units cost 20% less to build
• Whalers (Seafarers): +3p/g/c from Whales (possibly via the Harbour for distant Whales), or maybe just remove the single-resource stuff entirely.
• Merchants (Traders): Merchant GPs get +2 movement, +5 Trade/Espionage.
• Millers (Farmers): +1f/p from Wind/Watermills? Same thing as the Milling civ, but the stacking could get a bit crazy
• Weavers (Craftsmen): Textiles Plantations provide Fine Cloth luxury, +2 p/g/c
• Brewers (Craftsmen): Vineyards provide Fine Wine luxury, +2 f/g/c
• Philosophers (Scholars / Tech: Philosophy): Scribes provide +2c, non-scribes provide +1s
• Metaphysicists (Scholars / Tech: Metaphysics): Receive a tenth (?) of mana/DF income in science and vice versa (Again, Metaphysics is pretty damned late)
• Astronomers (Scholars or Seafarers / Tech: Astronomy): Observatories provide +50% to city’s science
• Divine/Arcane Scholars (Scholars + Tech: Divine Liturgy/Thaumaturgy): +33% (?) better Lectio Divina/Occultus, more Lectio Divina if they don’t get a mage equivalent?
• Zealots (Missionaries): State Religion gets Enhancer Bonus: +0.25c/+1 ”faith” for each worshipper anywhere? Alternatively, +15% combat strength against civs with other state religions (lumping the Pantheist ones together)
• Potion Makers (Herbalists): Thaumaturges can brew Healing and Strength Potions, which can be given to allies as a once-off ability (Complex, but you can’t have two Potion Making policies without makin’ some potions)
• Bakkheians (Bards): +2c divided among cities for every Wine, Ale and Spirits luxury
• Performers (Bards): Perform generates mod/2 Gold as well as Culture
• Mathematicians (Scholars / Tech: Mathematics): Scribes provide +1p?
• Stonemasons (Craftsmen): +2p/+1c from Quarries, +2 str/+1c from Walls/Castles
• Civil Engineers (Engineers): All buildings which provide food or production provide +1 p/g (or just cheaper, if +1p is too strong?)
• Machinists (Engineers / Tech: Machinery): +30% str/rng for Iron Constructs? They don’t have much that buffs them as is
• Architects (Engineers / Tech: Architecture): +1 g/c for buildings that provide +c?
• Weapon Smiths (Smelters): +1 str/rng to “normal units” at Iron Working, another +1 at Steel Working, another +1 at Mithril Working. Bonus: Weapons can be ‘stolen’ if someone kills the unit in melee
• War Strategists (War Tacticians): Warriors passively provide mod% / 2 strength to neighbouring units (maybe too strong)
• Underdark Denizens (Miners / Tech: Deep Farming): Units can move through mountains (full speed?), only take damage if outside friendly territory (assuming Deep mining doesn’t let you do that anyway. Alternatives include ‘can move at full speed’ and ‘never take attrition&#8217

--row 3 (has row 2 as prereq)
• Forest Lords (Woodsmen): +1f/p on forested resources
• Ice/Desert Lords (Tundra/Desert Nomads): Units gain +15% strength in Tundra/Desert, improved Tundra/Desert tiles gain +1f
• Master Mercenaries (Merchants): Mercenaries gain +25% (too stackable?) strength, with appropriate price hike. Can recall your hired-out mercenaries at any point for a diplo hit with hirer
• Leviathan Hunters (Whalers, Animal Masters): Spawns Barbarian Leviathans occasionally near your cities. Aquatic units get 50% damage against animals (beasts?) and can capture Leviathans by defeating them. Maximum Leviathans (Barb or tame) = owned Whales.
• Naval Engineers (Ship Builders): Ships get +1 move, +1 vision, +15% strength
• Advanced Agriculturalists (Millers): +1 p/f for farms
• Exotic Traders (Caravaners, Sea Traders): Automatically receive 1 copy of every strategic resource (and 1 luxury resource) that a trading partner has.
• Bankers (Merchants): +1 s/p per-turn (split among all cities) for every 100 gold you have stored.
• Master Marksmen (Marksmen): Archers can ‘set up’ to gain range 2 attack
• Master Weavers (Weavers): Cotton Gins and Textile Mills get +4g/+2c
• Master Brewers (Brewers): Breweries and Wineries get +4g/+2c
• Theologists (Divine Scholars): Devouts can no longer level up in Devotion (or Proselytism? I’m not sure what Devotion even does now). Devouts gain the equivalent of one Devotion (or Proselytism) promotion every time they level. Also, Theologians maybe?
• Demonologists (Arcane Scholars): Allied demons regenerate 15% health every turn.
• Master Arcanists (Arcane Scholars): Arcane spells take half the usual time to cast, rounded up. 1 ‘instant’ Arcane spell can be cast per-turn without using up move points.
• Master Potion Makers (Potion Makers): Thaumaturges can brew Potions of Experience and Firebombs. Potions can be brewed 1/3 faster than previously (4 turns instead of 6?)
• Master Performers (Performers): Perform generates the Artist’s full modifier in gold as well as culture, as well as a tenth (carrying over on repeated Performs) of his/her modifier in temporary happiness (10 turns?)
• Master Mathematicians (Mathematicians): Scribes provide another +1p and +1c. Smiths provide +2s.
• Monument Builders (Stonemasons): Smiths gain +3c
• Weapon Masters (Weapon Smiths): Same thing as Weapon Smiths? There are only so many ways you can go with “good swords”
• Imperialists (Royalists or War Strategists): Effective pop is 25% less for culture and science purposes
• Underdark Lords (Underdark Denizens): +1 s/c/p from improved Mountain tiles

Complaints:

Spoiler :

• Jewelers (Craftsmen, +1g1c from improved Gems and Oysters): As you’ve probably worked out if you read the suggestions, I think single-resource yield buffs need to be quite a lot better to justify a policy.
• Gold- & Silversmiths (Craftsmen, +1g1c from improved Gold and Silver): Same complaint. You simply can’t find that much Gold/Silver in any given game, though I guess I might be underestimating it in deliberately small civs.

• Animal Masters (Hunters, Recon units can take the Animal Master promotion allowing capture of defeated Animal units (if combined with the Feral Bond policy, all combat units can take the Animal Master promotion)): I don’t have an alternative, but I don’t like this. Requiring you to invest in rather-weak Recon units or declare war on Animals as a Feral Bond civ, then take a promotion in exchange for some generally-sucky units.
• Beastmasters (Animal Masters, All units with the Animal Master promotion can take the Beastmaster promotion allowing capture of defeated Beast units): See Animal Masters complaints. Maybe if there were powerful beasts around consistently and recon units were better.

• Missionaries (+50% religious pressure from trade routes): I’d prefer +50% or +30% religious pressure (distance?) period, especially since foreign trade routes require Merchants in Ea. Founder/spreading bonuses don’t appear to be a big deal in this mod.
• Crusaders (Zealots, Receive Divine Favor from kills): The closest the Divine trees have to a “mana sink” spell is Mass Heal/Hurt, so an unreliable mana source isn’t so great. How about “No annexation unhappiness and diminished warmonger penalty if the city was not following your state religion when captured”?

• Œnologists (Brewers): I could complain that there are 3-4 policies centered entirely on booze, but it’s mostly just an extreme version of the civ-enabled policies’ nature throughout, since it basically lets you take 6 or 7 policies specialized in something that would normally have 2-4. On the other hand, the civ-enabled policies can be anything, so the game has to on some level be balanced without them. Combine this with a lot of stacking in the civ-enabled policies themselves (Archers + Marksmen + Master Marksmen), which typically float around the civ bonuses in question, and you have a pretty massive challenge to make policies that are meaningful on their own (for the sake of fun, if not balance) without letting civs push their specialization farther than is balance-healthy (say, the archery civ with early Militarism buffs and the three earmarked archery policies). It’s interesting, and it allows a lot more civ variety, but it’s definitely not an easy thing in its current form. An alternative would be to cut a bunch of policies and have civs cast a somewhat wider net with them.

No clue whatsoever:
• Deep Miners (Miners / Tech: Deep Mining)
• Master War Strategists (War Strategists)
• Horse Tribes (Pastoralists / Tech: Horseback Riding)
• Horselords (Horse Tribes)
• Mystics
• Alchemists (Tech: Alchemy)
• Craftsmen

 

[Standiball]

Hunters: Deals extra damage to animals and mounted units

 

[BrokenSky]

Could you extend the jewellers bonus to all resources near which you can build the Jeweller, and have the gold/silver smith, the Master Brewers and any other policy where it seems relevant unlock a "Unique" building which gives a special luxury resource requiring either the relevant resource in city radius or building. In this case, Gold/Silver smith would be:
+1 culture from gold and silver, unlocks the Goldsmith and the Silversmith buildings.
Goldsmith (currency): +1 Happiness, +1 Fine Gold-working luxury. 1 Maintenance. Requires Improved Gold in city radius.
Silversmith (currency): +1 coin, +1 Fine Silverware. Requires Improved Silver in city radius.
Master Brewers would similarly unlock the master brewers building.
Master Brewers (Brewing): +1 Happiness, +1 Legendary (Civ name who gets the policy) Ale. Requires Brewer.

Regarding Dooplis' Weapon smiths/master suggestion, maybe move the +1 strenght at steel and Mithril to master, and add +1 culture from some weapon making building to Weaponsmith?

For Nomad: How about Settled cities start with extra tiles (like Shoshone). At later Terrian relevent policies: Worker units (including Settler) get 50% faster movement over (chosen terrain type) and start with increased bonus land if the city is on this terrain type?

Monument builders -> How about some bonus culture from Wonders, Citadels and Engineer-magnum-opus-wonder-improvement-things?

 

[darkedone02]

Will any of these support the use of blighted/living terrain territories and influence the spreader while hurting those that hate/not support the spreader? I want to see this territoral terrain like it's disciples or fall from heaven 2.

 

[Pazyryk]

Will any of these support the use of blighted/living terrain territories and influence the spreader while hurting those that hate/not support the spreader? I want to see this territoral terrain like it's disciples or fall from heaven 2.

Added Hell Denizens for you: +2f1p from Blighted resources. Will be available only to Stygia and Moriquendi.

Animal Masters (Hunters, ... I don’t have an alternative, but I don’t like this. Requiring you to invest in rather-weak Recon units or declare war on Animals as a Feral Bond civ, then take a promotion in exchange for some generally-sucky units.

Civs at peace with Animals can challenge them (converts them to hostile for duration of attack). "Beasts" include things like giant spiders and griffons, "animals" include more natural animals (although both are spawned by the Animal player).

And if recon sucks maybe we need to fix that, probably for everyone but especially for hunting/nature-themed civs. Perhaps Hunters or downstream policies can help with that? (But I thought the Ranger ability to upgrade to almost anything taking all-terrain promo with it was pretty strong...)



Edit: The suggestions are great! This make me more hopeful that maybe this can be done for v8. I'll keep moving suggestions up as I have time. Keep in mind that the OP will evolve over time, as I digest/combine/discard/reevaluate ideas. I just want to get something in for all the policies first (or at least all that are there for existing civs). Then the list can be looked at as a whole and refined over time.

 

[Vinnz]

What about some policies using your health mechanism? Such as
- + 2 health from a building
- civilization is immune to plague spreading (not from plague itself, just from spreading between cities)

 

[Lplate]

• Policy that gives a civ a chance of having one more great person than is typical for that race.
• Linking with the health suggested policies, one that increases the expected lifespan of the civs great people.
• Wheel of Life: human only policy - shorter lifespan for great people but a new great person is spawned whenever one dies.

 

[Killzerslaul]

Tundra Nomads (Nomads) +1f for every 6 Tundra plots owned by each city
Desert Nomads (Nomads) +1f for every 6 Desert plots owned by each city

these kinds of policies are really weak and so uninteresting. I think +1f for every plot of a certain terrain would be powerful enough to be interesting and push playstyle without being OP.

 

[Doopliss]

these kinds of policies are really weak and so uninteresting. I think +1f for every plot of a certain terrain would be powerful enough to be interesting and push playstyle without being OP.

I agree that per-6 plots is nigh-useless, but +7 food for starting on pure desert/tundra would be a bit crazy. Maybe per-2 plots, 3 at most? It's okay if policies are pretty damned powerful when they're competing with Dominionism, Pantheism and new-Arcana.

EDIT: War Tacticians: Was Discipline so weak that we need 'Stackable Discipline Plus, now with added flanking' at Row 1? I always thought it was one of the most powerful things in Militarism.

 

[BrokenSky]

Maybe for improved plots [terrain type] plots, so the bonus increases as improvements are built, and maybe +1 food per 2 unimproved tile of that type with pantheism opened, similar to how timber is done?

 

[darkedone02]

should there be a tier 3 perk for humans that excel at anything related towards alchemy to become immortal by having the perk of discovering the legendary Philosopher Stone?

 

[Pazyryk]

these kinds of policies are really weak and so uninteresting. I think +1f for every plot of a certain terrain would be powerful enough to be interesting and push playstyle without being OP.

So... would you work any of those plots that have exactly (and only) 1 yield? I'm guessing not. The problem is that the AI will if it's 1 food, even if it means moving all citizens off of mines or specialists. That's why all the +1 yields have to go to a plot that already has a yield (i.e., resource or improvement). And there's plenty of policies with those effects.

The Nomads concept is basically an anti-dense city mechanism. Not just Nomads but the row2 Tundra Nomads and Desert Nomads. Only one city can own a plot, so the benefit is in controlling a lot of land with the fewest cities, without depending on population for the effect.


Edit: Errr... maybe I misunderstood. Did you mean same mechanism I described but 6x stronger? Maybe 2x or 3x is in the real of possible. One city shouldn't get +7 instantly for settling in pure desert (and then +19 food when culture is expanded out 2 rings). But maybe somewhere between that and the +1 (+3 at two rings) is a good idea.

 

[BrokenSky]

Would it be possible to increase the number of tiles a city can work? Add an outer ring I mean? Similar to what that slum wonder from FFH did? I yes, then maybe have nomads increase the city radius by 1 for cities which do not have another city within (say) 4 tiles? Also start with bonus land (either from Nomads or Terrain Nomads)? Then the next level gives +50% (or 100%? to keep up with cavalry?) settler movement on chosen terrain, monuments give 1 bonus culture for each 2 (balancing needed) tiles of favoured terrain in city radius. Then "...Lords" gives civ wide combat bonuses on such terrain?

[what this would mean, game play wise is that such a player could then quickly settle a large area and get a large amount of culture without requiring a large population, but the culture would not increase as the population did, allowing for the potetial for large policy gain, possibly? but at the cost of deliberately not increasing city size of many of these cities until later]

 

[onedreamer]

For the merchant civs I would give them bonus to merchant actions and not trade routes. The issue is that right now establishing trade routes is a long process. Merchant civs could have halved cost for establishing trade routes and/or improved movement for merchants.

 

[Killzerslaul]

So... would you work any of those plots that have exactly (and only) 1 yield? I'm guessing not. The problem is that the AI will if it's 1 food, even if it means moving all citizens off of mines or specialists. That's why all the +1 yields have to go to a plot that already has a yield (i.e., resource or improvement). And there's plenty of policies with those effects.

The Nomads concept is basically an anti-dense city mechanism. Not just Nomads but the row2 Tundra Nomads and Desert Nomads. Only one city can own a plot, so the benefit is in controlling a lot of land with the fewest cities, without depending on population for the effect.


Edit: Errr... maybe I misunderstood. Did you mean same mechanism I described but 6x stronger? Maybe 2x or 3x is in the real of possible. One city shouldn't get +7 instantly for settling in pure desert (and then +19 food when culture is expanded out 2 rings). But maybe somewhere between that and the +1 (+3 at two rings) is a good idea.

yeah I meant just make it 6x more powerful. I'm a little unsure whether I'd still stand by that but I'm leaning towards yes. The current concept is definitely far too weak to justify the "nomadic" playstyle; I'd just ignore it as a strategic factor and choose settlement spots the same way I always do. Doubling or tripling it would start bringing it into the realms of strategic significance; but it would still only be viable on a map with a lot of desert. What are the chance that you'll find a city site with 3 rings of pure desert? What are the chances that that city site has decent resources? There are problems with specialising to a certain terrain type and I think it would take strong bonuses to compensate for that, particularly if you want to encourage a specific playstyle.

Although +7 food in a size 1 city is really powerful, a pure desert city will in the long run have nothing like as much food as a farmed up grassland/floodplains one.
You could only count "pure" plots without features or improvements (except camps?) to prevent "Nomadism" being a viable way to stack extra food bonuses on agrarian cities. You could also limit the bonus to no more than the city's population. That would avoid runaway early growth while still making the policy strong enough to make "nomadic" play viable.

I think the "Desert Lords" and "Ice Lords" policies are exactly the same.. right now they are incredibly weak. I think increasing the bonus to apply for every unimproved featureless tile and limiting it by city pop would bring them to "relevant" status rather than OP. +1 yields for a size 1 city is fine, +7 for a size 7 city is strong but not OP and a size 19 city with full borders will be starting to reach the point where +19 yield bonuses are not so significant either.

 

[Doopliss]

Although +7 food in a size 1 city is really powerful, a pure desert city will in the long run have nothing like as much food as a farmed up grassland/floodplains one.

I don't think it's as "either/or" as you're making it out to be. I often settle cities that only have 1 resource in their immediate vicinity just because it's more convenient, and by the time they can work more it'll already have grown borders enough to work farther ones. Getting an early +5/6 here isn't incompatible with it being a powerful city later. And, of course, the people taking the terrain policies are those who have the terrain to go with it.

You could only count "pure" plots without features or improvements (except camps?) to prevent "Nomadism" being a viable way to stack extra food bonuses on agrarian cities. You could also limit the bonus to no more than the city's population. That would avoid runaway early growth while still making the policy strong enough to make "nomadic" play viable.

A: I'd discourage adding too many caveats to policies. There are a lot of them doing a lot of different things, so they're not a good place to make the game more complicated. Aside from that it might be interesting, though you could go quite a lot farther with quite a lot less of the actual nomad terrain.

B: This goes back to my earlier complaints about stacking, but I really don't want the Lords policies to do what the Nomads policies do (also a problem with Terrain Nomads/Lords as-is). If you have Terrain Nomads you're by definition one policy away from having Terrain Lords, and therefore one policy away from more-than-doubling what the Nomads one did. That is... Exceedingly hard to balance.


On the basis that we'll need Heldeofol policies eventually, and they can't all be master smiths or brilliant strategists:

Spoiler :

One-Offs:
-Guerrillas: Units ignore enemy zone of control

Row 1:
-Marauders: Military units automatically pillage enemy improvements they move on to, regaining health like a Barbarian (possibly less, though)
-Rampagers: Military units gain +20% morale for 10 turns after finishing off an enemy unit
-Veterans: Military units start with +10 XP (Probably on the weak side, unless you plan on buffing promotions)
-Conscriptors (bad name?): All military units cost 15% less to train

Row 2:
-Hordes (req. Conscriptors): Military units automatically regenerate 10% HP per-turn
-Warlords (req. Veterans): GPs gain +4 Combat, all GPs can Lead Charge
-Glory-Seekers (req. Veterans or Rampagers): Units get +20% morale when *not* next to any allies
-Looters (req. Marauders): Receive gold when destroying an enemy unit, more gold when capturing a city or pillaging
-Conquerors (req. Rampagers or Marauders): Melee (all?) units do +50% damage against cities (more?)

Row 3:
-Cannibals (req. Looters): Destroying enemy units gives food = strength divided among cities. Capturing a city gives food = pop size * 6, and population loss due to razing gives 12 food. (too weak?)
-Adapters (req. Conquerors): Can build any structure already in an owned city, even without the prerequisites. (If necessary: Does not automatically destroy buildings in occupied cities)
-Tyrants (req. Conquerors): +1 local happiness for every military unit in or immediately neighbouring an occupied city.
-Shock Troopers (req. Veterans): Units ignore enemy terrain defense bonuses.

 

[Pazyryk]

Nomads is going to be available to only a few existing civs, Fir Bolg and Cruithni (off the top of my head).

Tundra Nomads -> Ice Lords is specific to one civ only (Hyberborea) that doesn't even exist yet. And the analogous desert policies are there for an unnamed prospective desert civ. So it's kind of a moot point anyway.

But keep the ideas coming. I'm probably going to disappear from this thread until I get v7 out in a few days (see thread on Protector Victory). Then I'll come back. I think this will all go into v8.