Civ Tier list (civ 4)

[Mr_Trotsky]

The stele is a good building it’s just culture victories are under appreciated. Thirty hammers for a building that has half the culture modifier of a cathedral but can be built with mysticism, without a religion and without three temples being built to unlock it is a bargain.

I guess it would be even better on a leader that was better suited for culture but Zara’s not terrible.

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

Zara must be up there in the race for all around worst uniques

Top of my head, worst uniques is a fight between the US and Portugal

 

[floydmcw]

Top of my head, worst uniques is a fight between the US and Portugal

Germany's are worse. At least America's uniques are useful when you finally get them.

 

[SittinDown]

I decided to waste [too much] time thinking this through.

Super:

• Inca
• India

A:

• Egypt - War Chariots. [Also AP Cheese, early priest if wanted]
• Native American - Great for not dying to barbs.
• Rome - Praetorian.
• Spain - Conqs / Citadel = fun.

B:

• Arabia - Both are okay-ish and slightly improved versions of things you might use.
• Aztec - Sac Altar is appealing. Cheaper and lets you whip more. Jaguar isn't that impressive. (Upgraded from C)
• Byzantine - Same as Arabia. Same type of units too.
• Dutch - Dike is cool, but comes too late. The Galleon is a nice improvement, map dependent.
• China - Cho-Ku's make crossbows mildly relevant. Fun factor.
• English - Redcoat is ok. The bank is barely an upgrade to a rarely built building.
• Greece (Pericles only) - The Odeon with Pericles is pretty solid, and cheap. It's a little pricey for Alexander. I'm not impressed by the Phalanx.
• Japan - Samaurai are fun in some situations (like always war). Shale plant - too late.
• Korea - The catapult boost is okay pre-longbows. Pretty useless after. The uni boost is pretty meh, and doesn't synergize with the leader. Might be a nice little boost on a philo leader.
• Mali - Skirmisher is ok. Mint is not much better, but you're gonna build forges anyway.
• Mayan - Holkan offers guarnteed safety. Ball court is pretty good happines per hammer. (Upgraded from C)
• Mongolia - Ger + Keshiks = Mongolian horde fun. Gets a boost for having a unique feel to it.
• Persia - Immortals. Not quite as good as war chariots.
• Vikings - B on archipelago. Enjoyable synergy between berserkers and free navigation boats. They're not that great, but it's fun and feels very viking-y on the right type of map. On a pangea, D tier.
• Zulu - Impi is okay in some situations. The barracks with econ bonus synergizes well with an Aggressive leader. (Upgraded from C)

C:
[Aztec, Babylon, Ethiopia, France, Greece (Alexander), Holy Roman, Khmer, Mayan, Ottoman, Russia, Sumer, Zulu]

D:
[Celtic, Germany]

F:
[America, Carthage, Portugal]

 

[Fippy]

Zulu should be higher imo..Ikhanda is really good, and Impis are def. useful.
On lower levels they are great rushers too.
Aztec feels a bit underrated as well (Sac Altar).

Why F for Carthage?

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

Agree about Aztec and Zulu although on the whole it’s a very good list, with which I only have minor quibbles, and it was clearly a very valid use of time!

Carthage is interesting. I think you can make a good case for the F rating. The unique unit takes one of strongest base units in the game and makes it, in most situations, worse and harder to rush with. I’m sure the Cothon could be very powerful on the right map but I generally only build harbours as health buildings when industrialising and by that point I’ve probably finished teching. Therefore, the increased hammer cost relative to a harbour is a bit annoying and the extra trade route is pretty inconsequential. In that situation - the most common one for me - it’s likely worse than the default building.

 

[floydmcw]

I disagree with a lot of these ratings (which is why these threads are fun! )

Native America isn't really A tier. Survivability is great but having both the UU and UB serve that purpose, without synergizing, is overkill.

Maya (rated as C) is straight up better than Arabia (B) and might be A tier. Resourceless unit that keeps you safe from barbs for a good amount of time; a 3-happiness building. That's way better than some minor bonuses to a unit you can't use because all the AI cities have 1 billion % defense, or a building that requires 6+ surplus food to make effective.

Sumeria is at least a B, maybe an A. Vultures are extremely strong and the Ziggurat is your recovery mechanism after an early rush.

Khmer feels like a D. 1 food is nice but aqueducts aren't needed till factories (Sury is Expansive and gets bonus health). The Ballista Elephant is consistently on lists of worst UUs.

My head says Portugal is an F but it is fun to play say Earth 2 and colonize the New World long before everyone else. It's hard to carry colonists with a 2 capacity though.

 

[pigswill]

Spain's an odd one, both UU and UB are good but mutually exclusive.

The Celts UU and UB are pretty naff.

 

[SittinDown]

Good discussion. Good thoughts from people. I agree with some of the objections. I was a bit rushed to get to bed and didn't think through a few of the lower tier ones.

I completely forgot to add in the Greeks from my ranking spreadsheet.

I like Native American as A for Diety or big land areas. Probably dips down a good it outside of those situations. But I think the UU / UB boost Sitting Bull a lot compared to what he'd be if he had something like America's UU / UB.

Maya (rated as C) is straight up better than Arabia (B) and might be A tier

I can see a solid B there. I think I got that one wrong. Pacal's traits are so good he doesn't usually need the holkan as much as SB needs his UU / UB, but it does make him a pain to be neighbors with. Holkan grants easy defense, and the ball court is a lot of happiness / hammer. Arabia is a meh upgrade to some good stuff (knight, library). Maya is a good upgrade to some meh stuff (spear, coloseum). but I'll give Maya the nod, because the Mayans actually makes Spears and Coloseums worth using. I think the Knight is an okay unit, in some situations, and the Camel Archer makes it (very) slightly better. Though I'm skeptical that Saladan really plays well into an engineering offensive. But it was two okay boosts to a decent unit, and a commonly built building, so you get something for nothing.

Sumeria is at least a B, maybe an A

I'm not as big a fan of Vultures, though I haven't tried them in a good while. The Zig is good because it's cheaper, but I think the Priesthood unlock is a bit of a trap - not sure it's that useful to build courthouses earlier than CoL.

Zulu should be higher

Now that I think more on it, I think a B would be better. Impi are kinda neat, especially on rainforest maps. The econ bonus on the cheap barracks is a solid boost.

Aztec feels a bit underrated as well (Sac Altar).

Fair. I forgot that the Sac Altar is cheaper as well last night. Jaguars always seemed underwhelming when I've tried them. I don't have a good feel for them.

Portugal is an F but it is fun to play say Earth 2

Yup - I've played a few games on Terra with Portugal just to try it out, and I always want the Carrack to be better. But it's usually just better to bash your neighbors than colonize the new world. On a big map it might be a bigger win - I usually max out at standard size maps. It is fun though. Maybe F is a tad harsh, but on most maps, pretty bad.

Why F for Carthage?

I like Hannibal, and Carthage, but the UU feels like a worse HA. The Conthon is not too bad. I guess I just don't like that they took a good unit and made it worse. It's been a while since I last tried to use Numidians though, so maybe they're not as bad as I think.

 

[antimony]

Is Salon the only UB possibly worse than the default building?

 

[civac]

It simply has a bonus so it's better. Not a good bonus but by the time you can build observatories the GP pool impurity is not important anymore.

 

[antimony]

I think depending on the current situation with GPs and golden ages, it goes from marginally good to marginally bad, and of course at that point the game is mostly done anyway.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Here's a question: What are the UBs that objectively aren't great but you're fond of anyway? I've always had a soft spot for the Assembly Plant, I enjoy how quickly a coaled-up Freddy can industrialize.

Also a big fan of the Hammam. +2 at an Aqueduct's cost isn't the best value in the world, but it does a beautiful job of scratching my perfectionist city-sculpting itch.

And I love the Feitoria and Dike. Yeah, yeah, they come too late to matter, they take forever to pay for themselves. Fine. But have you considered that big tile yields make monkey brain feel good?

 

[Henrik75]

fast worker terrace and quechua definitely at top but what's more interesting is the A tier category which situationally can save your game.

I would put both byzantine uniques in there since knights die horrible to rifles but cataphracts can actually take them head on with combat 2 pinch, and hipodromes save your butt from that gross late game war weariness. I'd also put skirmishers in there because they're such a huge step up from regular archers; guaranteeing safety from early dows and barbs in an economic matter. I would also put the overtuned uniques in there such as praetorians war chariots etc etc. Maya civ has strong uniques as well, big happiness boost on the building and a strong resourceless 4 str unit without the need for archery in the early game for defense or choking. Spanish uniques are awesome since you get buffs to the two strongest units in the game (cuirs/cannons) but starting techs suck sadly.
Also the Zulu uniques are pretty damn good too. Most of the others probably all sit around C and B tier with jaguars at the bottom but sacrificial altar being top tier.

 

[Tecumseh1]

Pretty much everyone agrees the best unique units are Quecha/Immortal/War Chariot/Fast Worker/Praetorian/Conq, but I'm more curious how people would rank the rest of them. I'd maybe put the Hwatcha next cause Koreans are my fav civ

Terrace is best building, after that in no particular order I'd probably put the Ziggurat/Rathus/Sac. Altar, and the Hammam/Ikhanda/Ger, and then the rest of the UBs fall off pretty hard

I suck at wars so fast worker for me. I'm practicing my cultural victories with Gandhi these days

 

[Fool's Gold]

Here's a question: What are the UBs that objectively aren't great but you're fond of anyway? I've always had a soft spot for the Assembly Plant, I enjoy how quickly a coaled-up Freddy can industrialize.

I read that as "coked-up Freddy" - look, coke's a type of coal anyway...

As per my previous tongue-in-cheek post: the Forum. I'm a bit too obsessed with building Augustus's "city of marble" in Rome and this UB feeds into that tendency along with his traits. Yes, I know the Wonder Economy strategy is obsolete (pun intended).

 

[ArchGhost]

Top of my head, worst uniques is a fight between the US and Portugal

What? Portugal's Uniques are way better. At least they do something additional in a timeframe you might actually get some novel use of them.

SEALs are actually dope for late game amphibious invasions, they are just, y'know, Marines -- a unit that comes very late, cannot be upgraded to and has to be built fresh (I always laugh when the AIs get Industrialization for this reason if my Tanks are already rolling, they have to take up build queues to make Tanks or Marines, no BS mass free upgrading Infantry for them!) , and is entirely overshadowed by lower/same tier/ higher tech like Artillery, Tanks, or Bombers/Nukes/Mech Inf. The Mall *is* pointless though.

Why F for Carthage?

Yeah why? The Numidian is a great improvement over HAs for cracking Spears or very high defenses (PRO archers). Arguably as good as the Keshik overall depending on terrain, definitely better specifically for breaking fortified positions or dealing with spears if you are too late cutting off metal. Nums are so slept on...don't underestimate free Flanking or the +melee combat power with Barracks for essentially 3 promos per unit out of the gate -- get a Stable too and that's C1 + Flanking + Shock (30% withdraw and -75% of that spear's +100% bonus) or C1 + Flanking 1 + Flanking 2 ( -50% of a spear's bonus and 50% withdraw!) en masse. They smoke Axes, in the open or defending in cities, like nobody's business too. Very good for HAs with no other support. Cothons meh for Hannibal though, better on EXP civ with Unrestricted Leaders.


Without going into each and every one, that B tier is overinflated. Based on Uniques alone Arabia, England, Korea, Vikings and Japan don't belong there (too high), Sumeria should definitely be in there and near the top of it if not in bottom of A, Zulu should be higher in that tier near Sumeria, etc.

EDIT: whoops I thought I saw Babylon in B, not C :EDIT Also perplexing why Babylon in B but not Ottomans, who have better versions of both Uniques (earlier building combining health + happy and stronger resourceless defense unit) lol. And I think someone else pointed it out already, but Maya is pretty much = Native America based on Uniques alone, which means either Maya needs to go up or NA needs to come down to the other non-Inca guaranteed barb defenders (Maya, Mali, Babylon). The Dog is definitely the best of them and Bowman the worst, but the Totem is basically pointless while Ball Courts and Gardens aren't. Skirms are roughly the same as Holkans even if the Mint sucks. etc etc.

Here's a question: What are the UBs that objectively aren't great but you're fond of anyway?

Hammams and Dikes, similar to you. Dikes are just impressive sounding on paper (and the fact they can be built in any coastal city unlike Levees which require a river settle too helps) and appeal to min-maxing tendencies. I played an Ottoman game way back when where I did an Elepult attack with the Heroic Epic churning out an Elephant per turn in the capitol with Hammams whipped into outlier cites being slaved and I was thoroughly impressed by them.

Sorry didn't figure out how to directly quote in an edit