AJ11
Emperor
The standard saves don't have those information. Therefore, the programme will break as it tries to look for those data.
Civ4 is the best
- Thread starter BrokTheFanatic
- Start date
The standard saves don't have those information. Therefore, the programme will break as it tries to look for those data.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I sincerely hope you are not a programmer because this is simply wrong.
The game knows the difference between saves from the various mods. If you attempt to load an FfH save from a standard game (or vice-versa), it will prompt you to switch to the appropriate DLL. There is no reason whatsoever why the K-mod couldn't also recognize the difference between two types of saves either and load the game accordingly. Just like an imaging programme knows the difference between a .jpg file and a .bmp (and, BTW, a good programme will recognize the difference by the contents of the file, not the extension) and load the file in the right way.
Still, I suspect the answer to my question is 'No'. Not for the reason you gave but because the mod never gets a chance to load the game at all. The main programme will already have switched the mod out and loaded the 'right' DLL instead. And we don't have the code for the main programme so it can't be changed.
It takes someone with knowledge of the SDK to answer my question. You, manifestly, are not that person.
AJ11
Emperor
I sincerely hope you are not a programmer because this is simply wrong.
The game knows the difference between saves from the various mods. If you attempt to load an FfH save from a standard game (or vice-versa), it will prompt you to switch to the appropriate DLL. There is no reason whatsoever why the K-mod couldn't also recognize the difference between two types of saves either and load the game accordingly. Just like an imaging programme knows the difference between a .jpg file and a .bmp (and, BTW, a good programme will recognize the difference by the contents of the file, not the extension) and load the file in the right way.
Still, I suspect the answer to my question is 'No'. Not for the reason you gave but because the mod never gets a chance to load the game at all. The main programme will already have switched the mod out and loaded the 'right' DLL instead. And we don't have the code for the main programme so it can't be changed.
It takes someone with knowledge of the SDK to answer my question. You, manifestly, are not that person.
You obviously don't know how the xmls are set up.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
WTF do XMLs have to do with saves? You should stop embarrassing yourself.
AJ11
Emperor
Where do you think the definitions of the variables are defined? Where do you think the AI gets its intelligence from? Where do you think the global warming variables are?
Ans: The xml files.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
You seem to have forgotten the topic - which was whether the K-mod could correctly load saves from other Civ variants. As I said, you need to stop embarrassing yourself.
Hint: assuming the main programme gives it a chance, it can.
AJ11
Emperor
Really? Is that why the FFH2 mod that I was playing with crashes when loading a pre-mod FFH2 save, asking for variables that are not there?
I don't know why this conversation about save files is still carrying on - but let me just tell you what I know.
In my experience writing K-Mod I can tell you this: changing xml does not prevent save games from loading. The game will still load, and most things will be correct. The only problems with changing xml entries mid-game are that some units & buildings might be confused about what their stats should be. For example, if you build a cathedral with +50% culture, and then change the xml to be +100% culture; when you load your save game you will still only have +50% culture. ... if you then have that cathedral destroyed by espionage, you'll lose 100% culture, leaving you with -50% culture! so.. in that sense, changing the xml does invalidate save games, but usually the effects are very minor and not worth worrying about.
On the other hand, changing the dll to add completely new xml entries can break save games entirely. ie. break them to the point where attempting to load the save will cause Civ4 to crash. The changes I've made in K-Mod are like that; and it isn't just new xml; I've also made the game save completely new information which has nothing do with with the xml. For example, I've given the AI some basic tactical memory of which parts of the map are strongly defended by its enemies. That memory is completely unrelated to any form of xml, but it is included in the save game.
Although its true that K-Mod could have been programmed to recognise which kind of save-file it is loading, and convert the save accordingly; it has not been written to do that. The reason is that I just deemed that to be a low-value feature. It would take quite a bit of work to convert some of the old data into the new data, and I just don't think it's worth it. I don't really see it is a huge loss if people have to start a new game to play on my mod. I personally wouldn't want to switch from standard BtS to K-Mod mid-game anyway.
By the way, the current version of K-Mod is able to load and play save games from previous versions of K-Mod. That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about loading save game from unmodded BtS with K-mod; and I'm saying that although it would be technically possible for me to write a mod which could do this, the current version of K-Mod cannot do it, and I have no intention to write that feature.
In my experience writing K-Mod I can tell you this: changing xml does not prevent save games from loading. The game will still load, and most things will be correct. The only problems with changing xml entries mid-game are that some units & buildings might be confused about what their stats should be. For example, if you build a cathedral with +50% culture, and then change the xml to be +100% culture; when you load your save game you will still only have +50% culture. ... if you then have that cathedral destroyed by espionage, you'll lose 100% culture, leaving you with -50% culture! so.. in that sense, changing the xml does invalidate save games, but usually the effects are very minor and not worth worrying about.
On the other hand, changing the dll to add completely new xml entries can break save games entirely. ie. break them to the point where attempting to load the save will cause Civ4 to crash. The changes I've made in K-Mod are like that; and it isn't just new xml; I've also made the game save completely new information which has nothing do with with the xml. For example, I've given the AI some basic tactical memory of which parts of the map are strongly defended by its enemies. That memory is completely unrelated to any form of xml, but it is included in the save game.
Although its true that K-Mod could have been programmed to recognise which kind of save-file it is loading, and convert the save accordingly; it has not been written to do that. The reason is that I just deemed that to be a low-value feature. It would take quite a bit of work to convert some of the old data into the new data, and I just don't think it's worth it. I don't really see it is a huge loss if people have to start a new game to play on my mod. I personally wouldn't want to switch from standard BtS to K-Mod mid-game anyway.
By the way, the current version of K-Mod is able to load and play save games from previous versions of K-Mod. That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about loading save game from unmodded BtS with K-mod; and I'm saying that although it would be technically possible for me to write a mod which could do this, the current version of K-Mod cannot do it, and I have no intention to write that feature.
AJ11
Emperor
It prevents the mod from loading, actually. You get an xml error and get kicked back to desktop if you screw something up in the xml.
uat2d
ಠ_ಠ
If there's one thing you should learn is that AJ11 is always right, even when he's wrong.
Moderator Action: Instead of trolling AJ11 with a comment like this, why not prove how he is wrong by discussing the thoughts in his post. It is fine to disagree with each other by discussing ideas. It is not fine to discuss other posters in this way.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Moderator Action: Instead of trolling AJ11 with a comment like this, why not prove how he is wrong by discussing the thoughts in his post. It is fine to disagree with each other by discussing ideas. It is not fine to discuss other posters in this way.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
AJ11
Emperor
Why don't you try putting in a variable that isn't in the class definitions and see what happens when you try to load the mod?
attackfighter
Emperor
They get their intelligence from a sea sponge. There's a mod that increases it to jellyfish levels, however.
AJ11
Emperor
That sounds... messy... Your poor computer...
Why would I bother doing that? We're not talking about making invalid xml. We're talking about a fully made mod, with completely valid xml. Obviously it doesn't crash.
Furthermore, the save format is not determined by the xml. One can make a mod which adds new xml fields without breaking save compatibility.
As for the suggestion that the AI gets its intelligence from the xml - that's absurd.
AJ11
Emperor
Why would I bother doing that? We're not talking about making invalid xml. We're talking about a fully made mod, with completely valid xml. Obviously it doesn't crash.
Furthermore, the save format is not determined by the xml. One can make a mod which adds new xml fields without breaking save compatibility.
As for the suggestion that the AI gets its intelligence from the xml - that's absurd.
I suppose the unit build probabilities and the like is elsewhere, then. My mistake. I thought I saw them when I was tinkering with FFH2's xml files.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Thanks for the explanation. However, I'd like to point out that what's wanted is not the ability to switch in mid-game but rather to load a 4000BC file and play from there. For example, to take a game posted to the Noble's Club and play it with your mod. In terms of programming complexity, it probably amounts to the same thing though.
I think there is a way to get around the save incompatibility for starting new games. The trick is that although the save games themselves are not compatible, the world-builder scenarios are compatible (as far as I know). So what you can do is this:
- Open the save-game without any mods
- Open the world builder and save the map as a scenario.
- Exit that game, and open K-Mod.
- Select your scenario from the Play a Scenario menu.
- ???
- Profit!
Similar threads
