Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ

[The_J]

More importantly, why does anybody care what data Steam collects on you, ^>^.

Do you know the word "privacy"?

I mean honhestly, what do you have that is so important that it needs be kept private other than your credit card number which I can near enough gaurentee Steam isn't giving to anyone.

There is enough unimportant data, which i do not want anybody to know.

 

[Senethro]

Do you know the word "privacy"?



There is enough unimportant data, which i do not want anybody to know.

Do you conceal your hair and eye colour when walking down the street?

 

[The_J]

Not quite the infos i really want to hide, but if there was anybody around, who would want to collect these infos, then yes.
I thank good that in the city i live in there are no google cars active. If i saw one, i would definitly want to avoid being on these pictures (i know, the try to anonymize them, but still...).
I've been really upset, that i didn't know that on the train station which i've used a half year, video control including face recognition was going on. That's something i can really get angry about.
I don't know what i would have done if i knew that before.

 

[12agnar0k]

Not really the point though, is it. Point was asking valid questions from the 2k reps, and getting an equally valid answer. As for the "why does anyone care", obviously those of us who wish a legitimate answer to our questions. Hence the reason for the FAQ in the first place.

Ironically, you side stepped the question there, I will ask it again, why do you personally seeming as you attempted an answer, want to know what Data Steam collects on you, what does this matter to you, whether they collect only Email Adresses or Combine Email Adresses with Hardware Specs, i.e Ram and What games you play. How does the difference either way affect you, why are you asking for the answer.

The point that you think is not really the point being I guess that you want the answer for this Question from 2k, no matter its importance, they have said they are still working on the FAQ, what more do you want to know, why do you press the issue, not you specifically but everyone, Rome wasn't built in a day, I'm sure their working as fast as they can, they are you know.... building a game too.

So you know... no matter the importance you want your answer, and I also want mine, PM it to me if you want.

Release what you have now, it's better then nothing. When you have more answers you can just update the faq.

Also still waiting an answer on the deluxe edition disappearing from the pre-order options for a while.

I can answer this for you, they don't need to, It did indeed disapear from a few regions but its back now after someone pointed the error out to Steam. A bug occured I believe and is assumed that when the release dates were changed something was done incorrectly which removed the ability to buy a Deluexe Ed. on steam for a few days. Steam has since fixed the problem, it was minor and no damage is done accept that for a few days some people may not of known a Deluxe edition even existed. Anyone who had already ordered a Deluxe Edition has still ordered it and will still get it, and everyone can now order it again because its back, infact it has been for nearly a week.

A minor error, I believe its assumed to be a simple typo in release date that caused it to vanish and spread panick, but Steam fixed the issue and all is back to normal.

I hope this answered your Query sufficiently.

 

[12agnar0k]

google cars

Lol i'm in a couple Google map pics, I wont say which ones because Im not known for good physical traits. In a couple I look very silly, oh why didn't I decide to stay inside. Not too bothered. Who looks at the Street Maps anyway.

..

As for the other post.

Yes i've heard of the word Private, but thier are some things one would want to keep private, personal stuff, bank account info, real name's & addresses, how you eat a cadburys cream egg (very personal). But other things such as technical aggregate information is what is sold/given to publishers which helps them help us by giving a better game.
I.e one bit of info Steam could pass back, is 85% of players with Civ5 have hardware specs over 2gigRam, this would be useful as they would know what % of thier customers could handle bigger projects perhaps a very ram intensive patch. This is oe of the kind's of information that Steam gives to publishers. Technical Data collected which helps them make better decisions about our game, which benefits us. How private do you consider your help in this Aggregate Data Collection.

 

[Commander Bello]

More importantly, why does anybody care what data Steam collects on you, ^>^.
I mean honhestly, what do you have that is so important that it needs be kept private other than your credit card number which I can near enough gaurentee Steam isn't giving to anyone.

Lol i'm in a couple Google map pics, I wont say which ones because Im not known for good physical traits.

Why does anybody care what kind of pictures of his person are available through Google maps?
What is so important about his pictures that it needs to be kept secrete?

Answer: the quoted poster has some individual and personal reasons why he does not want to have others (for instance, the anonymous crowd here at the forum) know about his physical appearance.

Now, shall we blame him about this?

I mean, shouldn't he just be going with modern times?
Pictures of us are collected each and everywhere, why being concerned about who can see him?

 

[12agnar0k]

Oh Im not concerned I just dont make a habit of posting pictures of myself on purpose, thier are some on the internet somewhere, it'd be easy enough to find out my real name and try to find a picture, if you can figure all this out and find a picture of me and post it here (I give you permission) you can then have a cookie, This is all relevant ... ish.. as it has to do with Privacy and why it is or is not important.

But my preferences on posting pictures of myself is not anything to do with Steam, the kind of data they collect will not be a photo of me in a bath tub with a rubber duck... or will they. STEAM IS EVERYWHERE. FEAR THE STEAM.

 

[The_J]

This blatant hypocrisy makes my brain hurt.
Saying that other people should not care about whatever privat things could be stolen from them, because it's completly unimportant, but not willed to back up this statement with with it's own unimportant data.
*sigh*

 

[The_Coyote]

More importantly, why does anybody care what data Steam collects on you, ^>^.

Ironically, you side stepped the question there, I will ask it again, why do you personally seeming as you attempted an answer, want to know what Data Steam collects on you, what does this matter to you, whether they collect only Email Adresses or Combine Email Adresses with Hardware Specs, i.e Ram and What games you play. How does the difference either way affect you, why are you asking for the answer.

How should someone decide to accept data usage/collectionif he/she doesn´t know what is collected and how the collected data is used in detail and cares abouts this issue. If this question is uninteresting for you - you personally don´t care - it´s no important part of the contract But nevertheless it´s part of the contract and therefore it can be important. At least as long as someone cares about data protection this infos should be available to make an informed decision.

Imagine the situation if you could make an informed decision - and no decision based on the own limited knowledge (not everybody can be statistican, computer scientist, psychologist, sociologist in one persons) and assumptions. I really fear such informed decision.

And most surprising the result could be - after knowing what is collected and how this data is used - someone could accept to Valves data usage.

How private do you consider your help in this Aggregate Data Collection

Again nitpicking in this case - can you say how big this groups are? If they aggregate streetwise (assuming they have such data and always more than 1 person in the groups) would this be still ok for you. The worst case i could imagine if they know that there are at least 2 - 3 with one IP - in this case they could aggregate the data for the IP. Most likely this will not be done - but it´s also possible.

The data is not collected in anonymous way - perhaps afterwards the data is stored removing all PII informations from them so that they can be seen as anonymous. But the only case i can remember to see this guranteed was in the automatic bug report case. In all other cases they can store the data the way they "want". Only their further usage, eg how they give such data to third parties, is limited. And the questions is as how anonymous someone defines the individual informations.

and perhaps you shouldn´t neglect the so called "individual informations"

The privacy policy also claims "Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties". Btw browser fingerprints, unique hardware info would be most likely also fall under the definition of the individual informations - only information which would allow to communication directly (i start too ask myself why there is a directly - what is possible with "indirect communication" ) or reveal your identitiy (should be only the clear name, perhaps also a personal ID) must be removed from the data

Also, but only perhaps (depends on the informations) this potential unique data can also used to merge different dataset. If you want to know what is possible with individual data you should have a second look at the the article linked here and perhaps at this (perhaps biased) articel

____________________________________________________

the kind of data they collect will not be a photo of me in a bath tub with a rubber duck... or will they. STEAM IS EVERYWHERE. FEAR THE STEAM.

I´m quite sure in the bathroom can be steam, so - but i´m not sure if this steam is owned by Valve

 

[2K Greg]

Release what you have now, it's better then nothing. When you have more answers you can just update the faq.

Also still waiting an answer on the deluxe edition disappearing from the pre-order options for a while.

I believe the deluxe edition is once again available for everyone, is it not?

 

[timtofly]

How many online games have full disclosure of important information before it is released? FAQ usually come up after release. Any pre-release FAQ will have to be edited throughly, which IMO would be time consuming.

 

[Nick Danger]

More importantly, why does anybody care what data Steam collects on you, ^>^.

Oo Oo I know the answer.

First, I fully support your right to ask that question.

Now on to the answer, which is: "on account of because".

It's the same answer dad used to give when, as a kid, I asked stupid questions.

I mean honhestly, what do you have that is so important that it needs be kept private other than your credit card number which I can near enough gaurentee Steam isn't giving to anyone.

Since when did folks have an intrinsic right to collect personally identifiable information that is shared with unspecified third parties for undefined purposes?

Since when do people have to justify their wish for privacy?

12agnar0k you've got it backwards. The onus is on Valve.

Or at least it used to be. The time's they are a'changin... thanks to folks like you

You're giving away something valuable (as Google and Facebook and others have proven) for nothing. Someday you may realize this, but by then the genie's out of the bottle.

Heck, try collecting personally identifiable information about valve and steam and its employees and then profit by sharing it with unidentified third parties for unspecified purposes and see how they react.

 

[Drakarska]

Ironically, you side stepped the question there, I will ask it again, why do you personally seeming as you attempted an answer, want to know what Data Steam collects on you, what does this matter to you, whether they collect only Email Adresses or Combine Email Adresses with Hardware Specs, i.e Ram and What games you play. How does the difference either way affect you, why are you asking for the answer.

The point that you think is not really the point being I guess that you want the answer for this Question from 2k, no matter its importance, they have said they are still working on the FAQ, what more do you want to know, why do you press the issue, not you specifically but everyone, Rome wasn't built in a day, I'm sure their working as fast as they can, they are you know.... building a game too.

So you know... no matter the importance you want your answer, and I also want mine, PM it to me if you want.



I can answer this for you, they don't need to, It did indeed disapear from a few regions but its back now after someone pointed the error out to Steam. A bug occured I believe and is assumed that when the release dates were changed something was done incorrectly which removed the ability to buy a Deluexe Ed. on steam for a few days. Steam has since fixed the problem, it was minor and no damage is done accept that for a few days some people may not of known a Deluxe edition even existed. Anyone who had already ordered a Deluxe Edition has still ordered it and will still get it, and everyone can now order it again because its back, infact it has been for nearly a week.

A minor error, I believe its assumed to be a simple typo in release date that caused it to vanish and spread panick, but Steam fixed the issue and all is back to normal.

I hope this answered your Query sufficiently.

Hmmnnn. Apparently your definition of irony is different than mine, and as for side-stepping the question, I rather thought I was succint. My bad, I'll try to address your comments more clearly. Let's start point by point, shall we?

"why do you personally seeming as you attempted an answer, want to know what Data Steam collects on you" - I actually did answer, but apparently you are a little bit confused with definitions of "attempt" and "irony". To re-answer this question; Because I would like to know, Because I'm curious, Because it would be interesting in what specific data was collected. I choose D) all of the above. The reason why it matters to me is that I actually like to make an informed purchase, not blindly accept 3rd party information.

"How does the difference either way affect you, why are you asking for the answer".
The difference either way affecting me is irrelevant. As for "why", because I choose to do so, and because I want to know.

"The point that you think is not really the point being I guess that you want the answer for this Question from 2k" - Your syntax is a little confusing here. I'm going to take a guess and respond by saying " Yes, I actually would like an answer from the 2k rep that has interacted with posters in this forum".

"they have said they are still working on the FAQ, what more do you want to know, why do you press the issue, not you specifically but everyone, Rome wasn't built in a day, I'm sure their working as fast as they can, they are you know.... building a game too".
Ok, let's answer these one at a time shall we?
2k has stated quite a few things in these forums, especially about the FAQ. The current 2k rep also gave a definite time frame ( with a certain amount of confidence I might add) and not only missed said time frame, but doesn't appear overly concerned that fans on this board are disappointed by the miss of the apparent target date.
I want to know when the FAQ is going to be out. I want to know if the FAQ is actually going to answer any of the valid questions put forth to 2k. I want to know if 2k is going to continually blow smoke up my a**. I could go on, but I think you get the point. I press the issue because I'm not a passive individual who is willing to accept what is told to me at face value, and because I recognise the the fact that a lot of individuals will. Not sure as to everyone else, I can't speak for them. Um, realising that i'm an american who apparently doesn't know what transpired in the ottoman/turkish empire, thank you for pointing out that Rome wasn't built in a day. Hmnn, I wasn't aware that PR rep's were actually involved in building a PC game, thank you for enlightening me to that fact. It was my understanding that an official rep from a computer company was of the PR variety, and could possibly answer my ( our) questions, especially considering he posts occasionaly on these boards.

"So you know... no matter the importance you want your answer, and I also want mine, PM it to me if you want". - I don't really believe I stated that my questions were "important", merely that they had certain validity in inquiring an answer from the 2k rep. As for you wanting your answers, perhaps if you PM 2k Greg he would be able to give you what you seek. I'm certainly unqualified to give answers on 2k's behalf.

 

[Drakarska]

I believe the deluxe edition is once again available for everyone, is it not?

Not to start any type of open confrontation here Greg, But you seem to only answer questions that are usually already generally known. What about the first section of his post? are you planning on answering that?

No offense, but for rep who is seemingly supposed to interact with us poor slobs in the forums, you seem to take an extremely selective timeframe in communicating with us. Or did I totally misunderstand what your job title meant when first introduced to the community.

 

[2K Greg]

Not to start any type of open confrontation here Greg, But you seem to only answer questions that are usually already generally known. What about the first section of his post? are you planning on answering that?

No offense, but for rep who is seemingly supposed to interact with us poor slobs in the forums, you seem to take an extremely selective timeframe in communicating with us. Or did I totally misunderstand what your job title meant when first introduced to the community.

I am not going to release the FAQ until it is complete and verified. Yes, it's taking a long time. The different departments discussing the answers have been taking quite some time talking to each other. I'm terribly sorry it has taken so long. I understand your frustration and I think it's justified. There's sadly nothing more I can say but it'll come when it comes. I know it's not the answer you want to hear; I know you want to have a hard date, but I just don't have one.

I also understand your frustration at me not interacting with you guys as much as you'd like. I hope to rectify that going forward! The reality is that I've been very busy in this new position and I'm still getting used to everything here. It's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs, reading the forums and refusing to reply

Man, I can't believe I've been here a little over a month already! It feels like only a couple weeks.

 

[nerd]

I am not going to release the FAQ until it is complete and verified. Yes, it's taking a long time. The different departments discussing the answers have been taking quite some time talking to each other. I'm terribly sorry it has taken so long. I understand your frustration and I think it's justified. There's sadly nothing more I can say but it'll come when it comes. I know it's not the answer you want to hear; I know you want to have a hard date, but I just don't have one.

I also understand your frustration at me not interacting with you guys as much as you'd like. I hope to rectify that going forward! The reality is that I've been very busy in this new position and I'm still getting used to everything here. It's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs, reading the forums and refusing to reply

Man, I can't believe I've been here a little over a month already! It feels like only a couple weeks.

You can take my questions off your list to answer. I no longer care what or if you answer. The situation is clearly one of blowing smoke, and my trust in any answers you might now supply has dwindled to zero.
I have gotten so tired of self-appointed experts answering for you, and your silence when they do, with mostly obviously unsupported opinions often self-contradictory, without you even moderating the wrong information that I would no longer consider any statement by 2K of any value. This same loss of trust applies to my trust in the quality of the game being produced.
It is rare that the PR department actually manages to drive potential customers away, but it is true in this case.
Will I give you my money with this uncertainty? Of course not!

 

[Drakarska]

I am not going to release the FAQ until it is complete and verified. Yes, it's taking a long time. The different departments discussing the answers have been taking quite some time talking to each other. I'm terribly sorry it has taken so long. I understand your frustration and I think it's justified. There's sadly nothing more I can say but it'll come when it comes. I know it's not the answer you want to hear; I know you want to have a hard date, but I just don't have one.

I also understand your frustration at me not interacting with you guys as much as you'd like. I hope to rectify that going forward! The reality is that I've been very busy in this new position and I'm still getting used to everything here. It's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs, reading the forums and refusing to reply

Man, I can't believe I've been here a little over a month already! It feels like only a couple weeks.

Lol, rigghhhtttt.... Nevermind. I was going to wax sarcastic, and I even had a beautiful response all set to put forth to print. But we both know it would be pointless, don't we. it is blatently obvious that 2k is more concerned with it's profits than any meaningful dialogue with it's fans ( including the 2k forums, I might add). Pity really.

Just out of sheer amusement Greg, the 90k + fans over on Facebook that are eagerly awaiting some tiny morsel of info for Civ Nation ( or whatever the correct name for it is), are you involved with that as well? or is some other PR rep wizard responsible for the similar lack 2k efforts towards it's fans?

 

[12agnar0k]

Drakarska

The Irony, point was aimed at "You are annoyed at Greg not answering questions and then you proceeded to not answer my question I asked" I can't remember what the first answer you gave to my question was, but you say you thought you had answered me and indeed you now have so no longer is it Ironic.

"The point that you think is not really the point being I guess that you want the answer for this Question from 2k"

- Your syntax is a little confusing here. I'm going to take a guess and respond by saying "Yes, I actually would like an answer from the 2k rep that has interacted with posters in this forum".

Oh I agree I read my own questions before reading your answers, I tend to forget what I say while using multiple threads with multiple topics. When I re-read this I was a bit baffled as to what in hell I was drinking or smoking at the time when writing that. But after long seconds of deciphfering (bad spelling) you indeed guessed correctly.

thank you for pointing out that Rome wasn't built in a day.

Your welcome, I do like to remind people of erronious facts from time to time.

I wasn't aware that PR rep's were actually involved in building a PC game, thank you for enlightening me to that fact. It was my understanding that an official rep from a computer company was of the PR variety, and could possibly answer my ( our) questions, especially considering he posts occasionaly on these boards.

Well I assume this 2k Rep isn't some fountain of knowledge, to get some of your questions in the FAQ answered he will need to confer with colleagues who would perhaps be busy building the game . This is why I said they would perhaps need time to make and complete the FAQ.

As for you wanting your answers, perhaps if you PM 2k Greg he would be able to give you what you seek. I'm certainly unqualified to give answers on 2k's behalf.

I was refering back to the first point on Privacy and my question as to why you wanted to know, which you were indeed qualified to answer and indeed answered. Thanks very much for your time.


...


@ Nerd, Nothig wrong with self-appointed experts answering questions... well nothing wrong other than the fact we were asked not to use this thread as such. If you wish to know why?, I will refer the answer to very comic Nick, "on account of because". Unless ofcourse the self-appointed expert is also a publically-apointed Idiot. In that case his "Expert Answers" aren't quite so expert.

 

[Rebel44]

I am not going to release the FAQ until it is complete and verified. Yes, it's taking a long time. The different departments discussing the answers have been taking quite some time talking to each other. I'm terribly sorry it has taken so long. I understand your frustration and I think it's justified. There's sadly nothing more I can say but it'll come when it comes. I know it's not the answer you want to hear; I know you want to have a hard date, but I just don't have one.

I also understand your frustration at me not interacting with you guys as much as you'd like. I hope to rectify that going forward! The reality is that I've been very busy in this new position and I'm still getting used to everything here. It's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs, reading the forums and refusing to reply

Man, I can't believe I've been here a little over a month already! It feels like only a couple weeks.

As someone who work as Tech Support I understand your situation and I dont have any problem waiting litte bit longer.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: I can completly understand the frustration of some people here, but: Stay civilized and stop the blaming!