Senethro
Overlord
Given the state that most games are released in these days, its a smaller pain to let Steam sort your install/patch out for you than to play an unpatched game. Remember how Civ4 drew black terrain on a bunch of ATI cards?
Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ
- Thread starter 2K Greg
- Start date
I quite clearly said that yes you can.
Other than for "overprotection" of your private data, and to avoid accidentally going into online mode for your "overprotection" or to avoid breaking mods, I don't really see the purpose. Though it is your choice if you don't want to allow something access to the internet, sometimes If I dont like a programme I won't let it contact its owners for whatever reason it has, "HAH! take that software". If you wish to do the same with Steam then fine.
Yeah did on my old laptop but thats cause the ATI card lacked some pixel shading or something. Was an old laptop considering it had a dedicated card.
Waasnt much fun not knowing the sea from the land
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Yes, and it was really a hassle in those days to find out about the right patches and where to install them, right?
Or let's talk about the last (?) C3C patch (1.22f ?). Wasn't that the one which without announcing it killed one tech, thus making old saves obsolete?
And which one did re-implement the submarine bug?
How happy we would have been in those days if only we would have had a software denying us to go back to a former patch level.
Senethro
Overlord
Is there a point to your sarcasm or is it just a reflex now? I think the problems of Steam are easier to live with.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
That you would like others to have to live with the problems of Steam is not really new for us, but thanks for pointing it out once again.
There would be less upset over the automatic updates policy if it were an option, rather than forced. The problems of Steam may be easier for you to live with, but that opinion does not hold true for everyone else.
I dislike automatic updates myself because I'd rather be able to perform the update at a more convenient time, rather than potentially spending more time updating than playing in a crunch. Tell me an update is available, but don't force it on me.
Their is the "turn off automatic options" option, it is not forced. Unless you try to play the game in online mode, because of multiplayer incombatibilities you need to update to play multiplayer, Steam is a multiplayer encouraging software, 99% of Steam users use Steam because they play multiplayer. Thus by loading a game in online mode the software automatically checks to see if you are updated and if you aren't updates you, so you can play online, choosing to load the game in online mode on Steam is basically requesting to have your game updated.
If you do not wish to update the game, then you must play in offline mode. Which restricts multiplayer but allows you to play singleplayer even on an old update. Say if you prefered it before Lord of the Rings updated the game so that "Archers with Fire Arrows" weren't overpowered, instead you could keep the old update and spam Fire weilding archers all you like. This option is available to you, you are not forced to update, but the "process" of choosing your option to not update is to load steam in offline mode, instead of simply not updating it. Not really any trouble for you to load in offline mode to avoid updates.
If you do not wish to update the game, then you must play in offline mode. Which restricts multiplayer but allows you to play singleplayer even on an old update. Say if you prefered it before Lord of the Rings updated the game so that "Archers with Fire Arrows" weren't overpowered, instead you could keep the old update and spam Fire weilding archers all you like. This option is available to you, you are not forced to update, but the "process" of choosing your option to not update is to load steam in offline mode, instead of simply not updating it. Not really any trouble for you to load in offline mode to avoid updates.
I seriously doubt your 99% claim - it won't even be close to that figure since there are plenty of games that simply require steam for activation, regardless of whether the user uses MP 
Actually you'll have a hard time showing even a majority of Steam users playing MP - much less using Steam because of MP.
That said: offline mode is the only way to reliably keep it from updating - it does however also restrict other use - such as installing mods through the mod browser as stated by 2k.
Actually you'll have a hard time showing even a majority of Steam users playing MP - much less using Steam because of MP.
That said: offline mode is the only way to reliably keep it from updating - it does however also restrict other use - such as installing mods through the mod browser as stated by 2k.
At what point did "I want to play online" become "I want to update my game"? It's not the same. It's nowhere near the same. There are plenty of valid reasons why you wouldn't want to update your game, even in a multiplayer context. Steam makes no distinction between the two, and that complicates things unnecessarily.
Have you tried playing some of Valve's own games, like L4D2? You'll have a client update forced upon you for the weekly mutations. Alright, I can't complain too much about that - except that the servers aren't forced the update, so you likely can't play without someone in the lobby hosting it locally, meaning your latency is usually terrible.
That's about the point where I give up and skip playing for the next day or so until the server administrators get around to updating the servers. Whereas with nearly every other multiplayer game, I can download the update and hold off on installing it until the server I usually play on updates, and my game time is almost uninterrupted.
Except it is trouble to load in offline mode. People keep touting offline mode as the solution, but it's not. It's absolutely ridiculous to have to go offline to play a game without updating when I'm online in a chat room with some friends on Steam already. I already have games on Steam, multiplayer ones like TF2 and L4D2, and I shouldn't have to restart Steam to enter offline mode every time I want to play Civilization without updating - assuming I can even do so, since it's stated in some places that you have to be fully updated when entering offline mode or the game is unavailable (I haven't tested this myself, so I'm not 100% certain of whether or not that is actually true).
Everyone acts as if this is some sort of one-time deal, like you can just set it to offline mode once and you'll never have to deal with it again. It's not. Steam bugs out and you need to log back in? Hey, there's an update! Have to reformat? Check it out, that game you just installed has updates! Buy another game that uses Steam? Oh look, there's an update available for that other game you own, time to update!
Steam has, at present, absolutely terrible support for the offline player. Nearly every feature is meant for use while online - even the offline mode is meant to be used while you're online. And it's even worse if you use a combination of online and offline modes, because now you're being pushed multiple updates at inopportune times.
@Ori
The majority of Steam games are multiplayer, with few exceptions.
Civilisation for example is a majority played Singleplayer game, so that would be one of the few exceptions.
Seeming as most of Steam users are those who play the multiplayer games then most use Steam for the multiplayer games, this will change however if any mainly single player games come with Steam works, like civilisation, it will certainly bring some Steam singleplayers to the community.
I said 99% as a reference to "most", it could be anything over 50%, I'm sure Steam with their "spyware data mining" as some call it, would actually know the answer, Something that can't be said about games previously.
@Whiner, IDSL or w.e your name is.
Moderator Action: Warned - trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
I never said you wanted to play in online mode or that you didnt, I don't pretend to know your mind I only answered your question that you asked.
You shouldn't want to update some games and not others, either play Steam always in offline mode and avoid all updates or stop moaning and play online and accept the updates, "to fix bugs". All mods get updated by thier makers if the mod creater wants to have it work properly or work with a new update, so thier is no reason to not update your game, eventually all mods will be updated to the new version. I recommend simply keeping all your games updated so they work properly, but meh do what you like, don't complain however when you have to take an extra step to avoid a step made automatically for 95% of the community who want working games.
Multiplayer has to update the game if you don't want to segregate the online community. Into "updated" and "non-updated" groups. Having seperations in multiplayer is just stupid you will end up after fixing all the bugs in a game X reports every week of players posting fixed bugs because they were to stupid too update.
Stop your windbagging, I gave you the answer you asked for, pointless whining is not appreciated.
"Steam bugs out and you need to log back in?". wrong, just keep it always in offline mode, have your firewall block the application, it will never be able to "log in" by accident or other means.
"Steam has, at present, absolutely terrible support for the offline player." Steam is an online multiplayer community, your not supposed to be "an offline player", its simply a solution if you dont have access to the internet, or if you are massively overprotective about data mining or auto updating.
"Have you tried playing some of Valve's own games, like L4D2?" Yes they work fine, like most games that exist, they generally don't have any problems.
The majority of Steam games are multiplayer, with few exceptions.
Civilisation for example is a majority played Singleplayer game, so that would be one of the few exceptions.
Seeming as most of Steam users are those who play the multiplayer games then most use Steam for the multiplayer games, this will change however if any mainly single player games come with Steam works, like civilisation, it will certainly bring some Steam singleplayers to the community.
I said 99% as a reference to "most", it could be anything over 50%, I'm sure Steam with their "spyware data mining" as some call it, would actually know the answer, Something that can't be said about games previously.
@Whiner, IDSL or w.e your name is.
Moderator Action: Warned - trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
I never said you wanted to play in online mode or that you didnt, I don't pretend to know your mind I only answered your question that you asked.
You shouldn't want to update some games and not others, either play Steam always in offline mode and avoid all updates or stop moaning and play online and accept the updates, "to fix bugs". All mods get updated by thier makers if the mod creater wants to have it work properly or work with a new update, so thier is no reason to not update your game, eventually all mods will be updated to the new version. I recommend simply keeping all your games updated so they work properly, but meh do what you like, don't complain however when you have to take an extra step to avoid a step made automatically for 95% of the community who want working games.
Multiplayer has to update the game if you don't want to segregate the online community. Into "updated" and "non-updated" groups. Having seperations in multiplayer is just stupid you will end up after fixing all the bugs in a game X reports every week of players posting fixed bugs because they were to stupid too update.
Stop your windbagging, I gave you the answer you asked for, pointless whining is not appreciated.
"Steam bugs out and you need to log back in?". wrong, just keep it always in offline mode, have your firewall block the application, it will never be able to "log in" by accident or other means.
"Steam has, at present, absolutely terrible support for the offline player." Steam is an online multiplayer community, your not supposed to be "an offline player", its simply a solution if you dont have access to the internet, or if you are massively overprotective about data mining or auto updating.
"Have you tried playing some of Valve's own games, like L4D2?" Yes they work fine, like most games that exist, they generally don't have any problems.
they hit 25 million user accounts ("active accounts") at some point last year - they don't actually say how many users use it for multiplayer - ~10% are online as unique users per day from their stats page - they do not say how many of those actually play mp and not just are online with an sp game, but even if you make that part 99% - you could easily have 90% of accounts using offline mode. (Edit: of course the per day stats is undercounting players - since no one is online every day - so per month would be best, and no one knows how many "active" accounts are really "active" - so these numbers are essentially guesswork )
For whatever reason Steam doesn't give this stat - but I would remind you that steam has been selling mostly SP games, like the Civ games, for a while - so its hard to actually claim that their system is predominantly used by MP players, this is just not supported by available data. Its very well possible of course, but the opposite is possible as well.
It doesn't change the way it works - but the argument that its for the sake of MP is not necessarily the best explanation. In fact with games that do not use Steam exclusively the auto-update may even be a factor in creating MP problems. The auto-update could just as well be part of their DRM mechanics that surely work best if all activated games have all current files and they don't have to worry about games with outdated files needing DRM support.
)For whatever reason Steam doesn't give this stat - but I would remind you that steam has been selling mostly SP games, like the Civ games, for a while - so its hard to actually claim that their system is predominantly used by MP players, this is just not supported by available data. Its very well possible of course, but the opposite is possible as well.
It doesn't change the way it works - but the argument that its for the sake of MP is not necessarily the best explanation. In fact with games that do not use Steam exclusively the auto-update may even be a factor in creating MP problems. The auto-update could just as well be part of their DRM mechanics that surely work best if all activated games have all current files and they don't have to worry about games with outdated files needing DRM support.
If I go into steam and search for MP games and then SP games, I get 17 pages worth of MP games and 40 pages worth of SP games.
What are you using as your evidence to claim most games on Steam are multiplayer, agnar0k?
What are you using as your evidence to claim most games on Steam are multiplayer, agnar0k?
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
We will come back to the "whining" part later.
The next quotes are quite remarkable, since their intonation we've heard again and again from the side of the supporters.
Obviously, there seems to be a pattern.
"You should not have your own ideas", "you should not have your own opinion" is a mantra we've listened to often enough now in all these debates.
And at which time these updates of the mods will happen is beyond our control. It is up to the spare time and ressources of the modder and it may take weeks.
And it should be left to the decision of a reasonable player, whether a certain patch delivers relevant improvements or not, so that he would like to update just now, sometimes later or whenever he wants.
What for heaven's sake is it that people are "recommending" to transfer such decisions to an obscure software?
And here we come to the core of the problem:
It is not because it would be more or less convenient for the mp gamers, it is because constant updating makes things easier for the support crew.
This may not be a bad thing per se, but the support crew serves the users, not the users are to serve the support crew. At least it has been that way in less "modern" times.
Once again the "whining" thing.
To me it looks like we're having here somebody who cannot tolerate that others dislike his favourite plaything.
Since they conduct such "heresy", it is all right and allowed to call them names - but in all honesty, that kind of behaviour is not appreciated either.
Back to topic...
Things like this shouldn't be necessary when running a software which is forced upon you.
Software should make things easier for the user, not more complicated. If it makes things more complicated, then we have identified a faulty design.
There is no point in defending faulty designs.
Even better.
"You are not supposed to be an offline player"?
"you are massively overprotective ..."?
So, meanwhile in the imagination of some people we have reached a state in which others tell what I am "supposed" to do with my computer, my games?
To me it reads like
"Thou shalt not be an offline player" and "thou shalt not be 'overprotective'"
What would be next?
"You're not supposed to run games which are older than...?"
"You're not supposed to buy games from other companies"?
"You're not supposed to think that all 'animals are equal but some are more equal'"?
...
"Thou shalt not have any other service before me"?
Actually, Sir, your quoted statements indicate that you're having a major problem with people who want to make their own choices. Seems to be worth the effort to take a minute and think about this attitude, hm?
Using the Steam Store's Advanced Search option, there are 1467 games under the 'Single-player' category and 600 games under the 'Multi-player' category. Even after allowing for overlap between the two categories, it should be obvious that the majority of Steam games are not multiplayer.
I'm sorry, what question did I ask? Looking at my last post before your reply, I can't see a question, though judging from your reply it seems like you thought I was asking about disabling automatic updates. Disabling automatic updates doesn't prevent forced updates, it just defers them until a later time.
Who are you to decide how I should handling updating my games? Patches don't always fix bugs; sometimes they introduce new ones. Forced updates offers no alternatives if your game fails other than 'wait until the developer fixes the problem'.
The mod-makers don't exist at your beck and call. How many mods for vanilla Civ4 were never updated for the expansions? Sometimes they aren't able to maintain the mod because of real-life concerns, and if updates are frequent due to DLC or whatnot, maintaining that mod may become a job of its own.
The problem is that I can't actually avoid updating, I can only put it off until something breaks. And Steam doesn't ask me if I want to update by default, so unless I pay careful attention it'll be easily messed up. Designing for the least common denominator has left knowledgeable users out in the cold.
This is the part where I know you have no idea what you're talking about. You think over a decade's worth of online gaming hasn't taught the industry a few lessons? Steam is the only platform that makes the updates mandatory, everyone else notifies you that updates are available. Sometimes they don't even let you play online until you update, but they don't force you to begin updating on the spot, nor do they lock you out of playing the game until the update is complete, even if you cancel the update.
You must not have read what I wrote. When I say you need to log back in, I mean you need to log back in. Because Steam relies on that ClientRegistry.blob file to see whether or not you can play that game, and sometimes you have to delete it because Steam bugged out. Which means you need to log back in, because that's where your user credentials are stored.
Even ignoring the fact that there are more single-player games listed in the Steam Store than multi-player games, just because Steam was designed for a multi-player audience does not excuse them for their handling of single-player. If Steam is going to offer Civilization 5 as a primarily single-player game, then I'm going to judge Steam by its merits primarily as a single-player platform; the multi-player benefits are not the main attraction.
If you've honestly played Valve's multi-player offerings like TF2 or L4D2, you would already know that they don't "work fine" unless you're willing to overlook the glaring issues that arise whenever an update is released. No other platform locks you out of your own games when there are updates available. Simply downloading the update becomes a game of chance as you restart Steam to find a download region that isn't overloaded. Yeah, it works "just fine" if you ignore the problem and skip playing until the next day instead. I'd like to be able to play the game I paid for, though.
Blue Smarties
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2010
- Messages
- 7
@ori: Thanks for the welcome!
@isndl, Commander Bello: As I understand it, so long as I only have one game at a time on Steam, and I keep Steam in off-line mode, I shouldn't have to worry about being forced to patch? But as soon as I go back on-line (e.g. I want to play my first MP game of Dawn of War 2), it will immediately patch that and any other game I have held with Steam? At least Windows gives me the option to not patch automatically (but will let me know that there are updates available for when I have the time/bandwidth to download). Why does Steam feel it is un-neccessary to offer this facility?
@12agnar0k: I am predominantly a SP gamer. I am not ashamed of this and I have no wish to join the MP community at the present time; I don't get a huge amount of time to myself and I certainly don't get enough time to regularly MP game on the internet. I want to spend my free time playing the shiny new game I've just spent a lot of money on, not waiting for the auto-update to complete. I've spent the same amount of money on the game as you have. Why should my experience of the game be significantly less enjoyable than yours just because I don't want to do what you want to (and you seem to think I should)? From the stats above, even when treated with a healthy dose of scepticism, there appears that there are significantly more SP gamers than MP gamers out there. Why should we all be forced to patch as soon as that patch is released (not necessarily at a convenient time for us, the majority consumer, either) only for your (the minority's) convenience? Your main argument is centred around the MP servers having to cope with multiple versions of the same game; I won't be joining you on that server, so why does it matter my game is not the same version as yours? And even if I was going to join you, surely it's not too difficult to prevent me from playing on your server until I'm all patched and ready to go? On top of that, from the comments left here it seems to be carnage on the MP servers if you hit them just after a patch for a popular game has been force-fed to all and sundry. How can you think this is a good system? And why do you think it would be poorer for a little pop-up stating "New Patch available for Game. You will not be able to play MP until you update your Game. Install now (y/n)?" Wouldn't this make your life easier too?
@isndl, Commander Bello: As I understand it, so long as I only have one game at a time on Steam, and I keep Steam in off-line mode, I shouldn't have to worry about being forced to patch? But as soon as I go back on-line (e.g. I want to play my first MP game of Dawn of War 2), it will immediately patch that and any other game I have held with Steam? At least Windows gives me the option to not patch automatically (but will let me know that there are updates available for when I have the time/bandwidth to download). Why does Steam feel it is un-neccessary to offer this facility?
@12agnar0k: I am predominantly a SP gamer. I am not ashamed of this and I have no wish to join the MP community at the present time; I don't get a huge amount of time to myself and I certainly don't get enough time to regularly MP game on the internet. I want to spend my free time playing the shiny new game I've just spent a lot of money on, not waiting for the auto-update to complete. I've spent the same amount of money on the game as you have. Why should my experience of the game be significantly less enjoyable than yours just because I don't want to do what you want to (and you seem to think I should)? From the stats above, even when treated with a healthy dose of scepticism, there appears that there are significantly more SP gamers than MP gamers out there. Why should we all be forced to patch as soon as that patch is released (not necessarily at a convenient time for us, the majority consumer, either) only for your (the minority's) convenience? Your main argument is centred around the MP servers having to cope with multiple versions of the same game; I won't be joining you on that server, so why does it matter my game is not the same version as yours? And even if I was going to join you, surely it's not too difficult to prevent me from playing on your server until I'm all patched and ready to go? On top of that, from the comments left here it seems to be carnage on the MP servers if you hit them just after a patch for a popular game has been force-fed to all and sundry. How can you think this is a good system? And why do you think it would be poorer for a little pop-up stating "New Patch available for Game. You will not be able to play MP until you update your Game. Install now (y/n)?" Wouldn't this make your life easier too?
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
I am not a Steam specialist, since I am dealing with that topic just since it has been announced to be needed for Civ5 (which is the reason why I will not buy Civ5 although I wanted to get it on release day).
There are contradictionary statements regarding the question if Steam will update all of your games or if you will have the chance to exclude some from the update procedure.
It seems to be safe to say that if you excluded Civ5 from updating (in case this would really be possible), then you shall never ever again go online with it - or you will have to update, since going back to the so-called "offline mode" requires a complete update
crazyeye. But, as I said, there are different statements regarding this topic, and some of them I don't believe.
I honestly tell you to be biased against Steam, so I have to ask you to make up your own decision, I cannot be of much help in that.
Senethro
Overlord
I take it this is a Freudian slip and not the original sentence you had in mind?
As for Steam and updates, its game dependent. When in Offline mode it doesn't care, but often when Steam has been online, discovered a game has an update out, it will not run that game in Offline mode until its fully up to date.
So, don't put Steam into online mode after an update unless you've got some spare time to let it complete the download. If the computer goes months between going online this could lead to very large patches.
Senethro has the gist of it. When in offline mode, nothing happens. When entering online mode, you may or may not automatically download a patch depending on the game-specific setting. If you try to start the game while in online mode, you will certainly start downloading the patch immediately, and cannot play your game until the patch is completed.
Going back into offline mode is a little tricky. Some sources state that you need to have all your games fully updated in order to be able to play your game offline, but I'm not certain how rigorous this check is (it might be possible avoid it by pulling your ethernet cable instead of using the "Go Offline" button; I don't know how Steam works exactly in this regard). Unfortunately, there's no easy way to test it.
Like I said earlier, Steam wasn't designed for offline players. It assumes that it can run online persistently so that it can download patches in the background. If you can, it (usually) works great. If you can't, well, Steam doesn't work so well for you. Right now, we're stuck with it either way if we want to play Civ5.
Not true, if you don't wish a game to update without your permission then go to game options and choose "do not automatically update this game", if you have automatic updates on then as soon as Steam logs on, (which can be as soon as you start your computer instead of as soon as you want to play a game) everything is updated so as to keep your games bug free
I too mostly play Singleplayer games as of the last few weeks, I have been addicted to Civ4 to get me in the spirit to play Civ5
. I still play Steam in online mode so I keep all my games both single player and multi player updated.MP combatibality isn't the only reason, its also ensures any bugs with earlier versions are fixed, you don't as a support team want to fix a bug only to have 90% of your consumer base not bothering to update their game and continue to post bug reports on a bug that is fixed. I continue with more examples if need be.
I have a single player game currently I played a few times and then stopped because of an annoying bug crash, hopefull this bug is eventually fixed so I can play again, if I never updated this game again that would not be the case.
Fact is though, if you want to play an old version you have this choice by turning off automatic updates and playing the game in offline mode.
I have seen issues with Steam and Steam servers before, but I don't think they were caused by updates. Unless they were very poorly done updates which may of caused problems, if an update isn't bug riddled, it usually just solves problems and not create them. Which isn't really the point, as automatically updated or not, the problem would still exist when the game is updated, and its dumb founded to segregate players in MP over who has or hasn't updated, even if this is just "for support's benefit".
No, I can give you the example why very easily because without noticing it, as its supposed to be, a game updated today.
Thier is a button showing you downloads/ipdates in progress, and completed updates/downloads you just made.
That is the time when I turned my PC on, I went to get some food and a drink after that, I just woke up at midnight, yes I am a strange creature and am giving you too much information, anyway, so half an hour later I came up here and have been on firefox for nearly 2 hours doing my daily routine's. Now say I decided I wanted to go play LFD2 right now, If I has the option that you wanted me to have I would have to wait after clicking play now for the game to update so I could shoot zombies online, by Steams current method of updating it was done without my knowledge or concern minutes after I turned my PC on. If however you don't wish to have it update automatically then you can turn this feature off and update before playing the game wasting your time.
.....
If anyone is waiting for a reason to try the Steam app, you can do so prior to buying Civ5, just download a free game, or demo.
Heres a free game, http://store.steampowered.com/app/630/
You can see if you like the Steam App on your PC without buying a single game.
Best way to see if you want Steam is to test it, don't rely on other peoples opinions.
.....
As for the "more single player games than multiplayer games" on steam statement.
Most of the games in the "multiplayer" search - showing 1 - 25 of 651, also have single player modes so will also come up in the "single player" search, showing 1 - 25 of 1546. Also thats to say nothing of how many people play what game type.
I don't think I can find a "how many people play multiplayer / single player statistic." But I can find a "how many people are playing what game right now" And you can see the top of the list is predominatly multiplayer games. Though it could very well be that tomorrow is the day that 50 million single player civ fans all play the game and dont do so on any other day
.Heres a list of the top 100 games played today, the top of the list are all multiplayer games. Though quite a lot of the multiplayer games have singleplayer options so you cant be sure they arent all playing single player, but meh you can be fairly sure most people are playing multi player, especially with the counter strike games
.Spoiler :
So this goes part way to my "guess" as thats practically what it is, that Steam is full of gamers playing multiplayer, after all it is Steams focus.
Steam is a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer and communications platform developed by Valve Corporation after all.
........
As for "thou shalt not have your own opinion" as Bello decided I said, its not that thou shalt not, but rather thou is wrong to do so. You may have the opinion that the moon is made out of blue cheese, your welcome to your opinion, it doesn't make it right however.
I don't want to get boggled down into definitions of words because its a very argueable matter, but the term "shalt" is used in a different context than we currently use the world should. Especially in the bible, which is what you refer to. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" this is not a suggestion, "you shouldn't really do that man," it was used contextually as an order "YOU WILL NOT KILL". Where as today, we use should as a suggestion, you should not do this or that, though technically you can still use "should" as an order we generally use the word "must" instead. I.e "You must not have the opinion that the moon is made of blue cheese." I hope I have made myself clear, I should have
.To clarify, if you were under the impression that I was ordering you not to have certain opinions you were misinterpreting what I say trying to say, I was only saying that your opinion was misguided.
.............
@ISDNL
"I'm sorry, what question did I ask? Looking at my last post before your reply, I can't see a question, though judging from your reply it seems like you thought I was asking about disabling automatic updates. Disabling automatic updates doesn't prevent forced updates, it just defers them until a later time."
Actually saying you asked a question was wrong on my part, actually what you did was make an incorrect assumption and then I corrected it. It seems I will have to repeat this process again
"Disabling automatic updates doesn't prevent forced updates, it just defers them until a later time."
No, Wrong. If you permentally disable the automatic update process then you never have to automatically update. Unless you choose to update.
"The mod-makers don't exist at your beck and call. Maintaining that mod may become a job of its own."
Note: I did say "IF, a mod maker wishes to improve his mod, or have it work on an updated game then he will update it eventually." To be honhest, a mod maker shouldnt have to update his mod because an update screwed it up, the updates to a games core should be done in such a way that mods are not affected if this is at all possible.
You must not have read what I wrote. When I say you need to log back in, I mean you need to log back in. Because Steam relies on that ClientRegistry.blob file to see whether or not you can play that game, and sometimes you have to delete it because Steam bugged out. Which means you need to log back in, because that's where your user credentials are stored.
Actually I did read it, and read it again after reading this, and then read this again. I came to the conclusion you did not say what you meant to say.
But now you have I can answer efficiently.
If you go around deleting Steam files yes then it may very well "bug out" or "stop working" in which case you will need to either log in because you did a little damage to your files but not enough to stop it loading, or replace the Steam folder with a new download of the Steam app. Which will probably require re-installing all your games. Possibly. Which will require you to log in. Also replacing the Steam.exe will cause you to log in to online mode by default till you choose "go offline" again.
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Also I would like to ... not appologise per say, but state, I may of called you a "whiner" after only scimming your response because the post seemed rather whiney. Not that you commented on my remarks, it was bello who did that. However after reading the response properly it seemed to actually contain things I could make a response too, I did consider removing the whiner comments at that point but it seemed like too much work so I left them in
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