Civilization V - The one thing I honestly miss from Civilization 4!

[trueblue]

I dont think there is a mod, no. unless anyone else is aware of a mod that changes aspects of Civ5 so that it is more like Civ4...

 

[master__jj]

Correction: vassal states did not give you any research, money or units. They just were your vassals: they stood next to you in combat and you could give them (limited orders): try to attack the city of Rome, for example. Made the endgame a lot more interesting imo. I miss them... a lot.

 

[sparkyal]

I'm sure no one will like this comment, but honestly, I like puppeting more than the vasal states. It works with the CIV V game engine better than vasals would. My reason for saying this is that the idea of a puppet city is that you add LESS unhappiness until that city is ready to join your empire. and with them you can create a "buffer" zone for any "would be" attackers. I think it is better than the vasals.

The original post seemed open to other ideas to discuss...like.. THE UN is not cool. honestly, this is one change that i think hurt the game. I would prefer if the system was back to how it was before, with the city states acting as non permanent members of the security counsel or something like that.

 

[PhilBowles]

While puppeting cities works, if you are working on the edge of unhappy/happy, the extra 5+ unhappiness from puppet cities can destroy your economy.

A population would happy when finding out they just acquired a vassal state, I think.

Didn't the US effectively do that in Iraq? Didn't make a lot of the homegrown population happy...

Having said that, and while Civ V has removed the need to destroy whole civs to claim victory in a different way, I also miss vassal states, and when I started playing remember looking for the option to demand vassal status from minor rivals... I'll grant that in Civ IV vassalage was mostly thematic rather than of practical use (they'd rarely acquiesce until down to one or two cities and few or no units, by which time you could just conquer them if you wanted to - and if you were too battered from the war to do that, of course they wouldn't agree to be vassals...), but as mentioned it made the game feel more politically and diplomatically rounded.

I also liked how you could create a Vassal State colony on another continent (think the American colonies when playing as a European power). Having to actually take over the entire world is somewhat unrealistic and can also create a micromanagement nightmare on larger maps which makes it less fun to finish those games. On a side note, having to only take over all the capital cities makes Domination VC much easier than the Conquest VC in Civ 4.

Definitely true, but even so on higher difficulty levels in Civ V any other surviving cities will build up forces to relieve a capital under siege - I lost a game to that recently. So unless you have overwhelming force going in, you need to take other cities as well, especially if they are between you and their capital (crossfire from two cities in range to shoot your units is not pleasant).

 

[Brigg]

Not Civ 4, but I miss the ability to draft an army. Perhaps you could only draft an army you upgraded or disbanded...

 

[Morpheas]

There is a mercenaries mod to hire armies from city states.

 

[dilettante]

I miss vassalage as well. I used to love when a few civs would start to emerge as leaders with vassals behind them, either through friendship or war. Then usually there would be a point where there is a huge world war between two huge alliances, with the loser's empire often crumbling as vassel states start two withdraw from the pact.

This! Sooo much this!

Question for the modders on the Civ5 forums: Is the above really difficult to achieve or can it be done with a few tweaks without requiring the .dll SDK?

 

[robacus]

Vassalage and Drafting are what i miss the most from civ4

The whole mechanic for puppeting cities is broken in my opinion, its essentially implies that every single intervention by a foreign power in another state has caused unhappiness. *insert historical examples here*. I find it very tedious and unrealistic to have to work on my overall civs happiness because I took over 1 city. this is part of the issue with the late game i couldnt stand the last time i played.

Drafting was just a handy little feature i only rarely used in the most dire of circumstances. one of the best games I ever played of civ4 was me getting hammered by Gandis professional and more advanced armies, before I drafted every single able bodied man and woman from all my cities to hold back the tide. after it was over and we had a peace treaty, all my cities were back to 5pop lol

Going back to Vassalage, it would be much, much easier to vassal someone and let their puppet government take the stick from their local pop, then to continue to worry my pop getting upset because im conquering land and resources for their benefit.

in civ4, the vassal conditions were set so precise, i cant remember the numbers, but it was accurate and it worked, most importantly.

 

[krazybastid]

Bottomline anyone who thinks civ5 is better than civ4 beyond the sword is a marketing troll Moderator Action: Please don't troll around here. . I haven't played civ5 but from the research i've done. It is clearly obvious that Civ4 Beyond the Sword is the best Civ. I liked 3 alot I liked 2 alot. But with Civ4 BTS it blows the others away while taking the best parts of 3 & 2 in regards to espionage.

 

[robacus]

Bottomline anyone who thinks civ5 is better than civ4 beyond the sword is a marketing troll. I haven't played civ5 but from the research i've done. It is clearly obvious that Civ4 Beyond the Sword is the best Civ. I liked 3 alot I liked 2 alot. But with Civ4 BTS it blows the others away while taking the best parts of 3 & 2 in regards to espionage.

All of this.

BTS should have been the standard 5 was held up too.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

Bottomline anyone who thinks civ5 is better than civ4 beyond the sword is a marketing troll Moderator Action: Please don't troll around here. . I haven't played civ5 but from the research i've done. It is clearly obvious that Civ4 Beyond the Sword is the best Civ. I liked 3 alot I liked 2 alot. But with Civ4 BTS it blows the others away while taking the best parts of 3 & 2 in regards to espionage.

QFT

And mods, saying the word troll does not necessarily mean your trolling, I know you love giving your warnings and bans but he's just stating his opinion for gods sake.
I realize that you'll prolly give me a warning too (like I care) saying that you should take up problems like this via PM'ing the mod in question, which mind you I have done several times, giving my opinions and facts in several paragraphs but have never gotten back anything longer then 3 or 4 words amounting to "I don't agree.".

If your going to tell people to PM you to talk about problems please take the system seriously yourselves, or the people who you made this for won't either.

Moderator Action: Such behaviour is not appropriate for this site, and you know how to deal with it. Do it the next time.

 

[cman2010]

the main think I miss is a good ai, this one is just to crazy with diplo, and not effective in millitary.

 

[Morpheas]

QFT

And mods, saying the word troll does not necessarily mean your trolling, I know you love giving your warnings and bans but he's just stating his opinion for gods sake.
I realize that you'll prolly give me a warning too (like I care) saying that you should take up problems like this via PM'ing the mod in question, which mind you I have done several times, giving my opinions and facts in several paragraphs but have never gotten back anything longer then 3 or 4 words amounting to "I don't agree.".

If your going to tell people to PM you to talk about problems please take the system seriously yourselves, or the people who you made this for won't either.

This.

Back on topic, because talking about anything negative about mods results in a deletion. Reminds of Soviet Russia. Anyhow.
Moderator Action: Public discussion of moderator actions is not allowed in this forum. If you want to complain, then do it via PM.
^Point

I think the issue is, when they switched from stacking to no-stacking, it required a LOT more strategy. And when that happened, I don't think they upgraded the AI at all.

I don't play Civ4 just because of the lack of hexes (huge fan) and huge lack in graphics. Although the kicker is the stack'o'doom.

EDIT: The micromanagement in Civ4 was horrible as well

 

[Babri]

Bottomline anyone who thinks civ5 is better than civ4 beyond the sword is a marketing troll Moderator Action: Please don't troll around here. . I haven't played civ5 but from the research i've done. It is clearly obvious that Civ4 Beyond the Sword is the best Civ. I liked 3 alot I liked 2 alot. But with Civ4 BTS it blows the others away while taking the best parts of 3 & 2 in regards to espionage.

There is a Rants thread. I would suggest u to discuss cIV Vs ciV etc there.

QFT

And mods, saying the word troll does not necessarily mean your trolling, I know you love giving your warnings and bans but he's just stating his opinion for gods sake.
I realize that you'll prolly give me a warning too (like I care) saying that you should take up problems like this via PM'ing the mod in question, which mind you I have done several times, giving my opinions and facts in several paragraphs but have never gotten back anything longer then 3 or 4 words amounting to "I don't agree.".

If your going to tell people to PM you to talk about problems please take the system seriously yourselves, or the people who you made this for won't either.

I don't think that mod would object that if u post it in the right thread & in civil tone. Right now we are discussing the possibility of introducing vassals NOT cIV Vs ciV which has already been discussed countless times.

And I would like to clear some misconceptions about vassal states.
Features :-
- A weak civ can submit to a stronger civ as vassal with their own choice or forced by the strong civ through war for some convincing. (capitulation).
- Master can demand all resources from the vassal. If the vassal refuses, he declares war on the master.
- Vassal population suffer a happiness hit while master pop gain some.
- Master has to pay some extra gold depending upon their no. of vassals.
- Vassals have to vote for master in UN & vassals are counted as owned by master when considering domination.
If I missed something, plz mention.

 

[Itstoearly]

I miss having an era-specific soundtrack, which is sad since the really put a lot of effort in to the music in Civ 5

 

[Tabarnak]

Since your major point is the stack of doom, i think there is some mods that add maximum stacking for civ4. Kind of Mupt mods.

 

[Xiao Xiong]

One cool thing about vassal states was that they could leave and become independent again under some conditions.

If it were brought back in civ v the exact conditions could change, but it's fun. I also recall if your empire became too unhappy some cities might break away and form a new civ.

I think it should be combined somehow with the puppet system, where your puppets are grouped under their old leader and have the same penalties as now.

 

[aziantuntija]

ah so you just want the perks from having the cities and not the cons? in essence making the game easier? like getting units for nothing!

Yeah, its much easier to win wars than giving 1000 gold to a city state .

EDIT: I also miss vassal states and more over I miss colonies, just tweak them to suit civ5. I WILL PAY EVEN IF IT WOULD BE JUST THEM IN DLC!

 

[kirie]

I though vassal state in civ4 also giving your city unhappiness depends on how well your vassal

Since your major point is the stack of doom, i think there is some mods that add maximum stacking for civ4. Kind of Mupt mods.

great idea though no matter how I look they are not ready for it now, they should at least try to fix ai on diplomacy first. this game should be released 5 years later

and rather than no stack of doom I bilieve its better just to make cannon stronger rather than injury several unit it should be able to injure all unit in same tile.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

I am not knocking Civ V but I think Firaxis threw out the baby with the bathwater in making changes from Civ IV.


1. I liked the method of villages growing over time. It was far more interesting than constructing a farm or a trading post.

2. The cultural borders. I preferred how they used to be more fluid with adding different buildings. Now they are fixed unless you use a culture bomb (once they are established).

3. Espionage. Fact of life now missing.