Combat vs. First Strike

[NwabudikeMorgan]

I had a game where I had two GG's applied to riflemen. I had already used one for a Medic-General
these two generals I decided to Promote Drill 1-4 and the other Combat 1-4 to see if I could figure out which actually has a better effect on combat.

so, does anyone know whether it is better to do Drill or Combat?
(Not talking about combat 1 or 2 to get things like cover, anti-mounted, etc.)

 

[JujuLautre]

It's highly situation dependant. Basdically, combat promos help you to get an advantage (especially on attack), drill promos help you when you already have an advantage.

 

[Iranon]

In most situations, Combat will do more for your odds to win.

First Strike, however, gives you a higher chance to win without taking significant damage if you already have decent odds. As such, it is often superior for fortified defenders or for cleanup troops after collateral damage, and I use it a lot more than Combat.

 

[SpiritWolf]

Strike is good for taking out Monty's jaguar legions

 

[lovetramy]

Strike is good for taking out Monty's jaguar legions

second
but combat for Shaka's though

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

Ok, so If i understand this correctly, first strike allows you a few shots at the enemy with whatever your strength is, and if you have bad strength compared to them, you'll not do that much damage, but if your strength is already high, you'll be basically duck hunting as they'll be super weak. Combat on the other hand is just to level the field for your weaker units, or give equal strengthed units an edge.

 

[JujuLautre]

you understood correctly

For more informations about all this, see the article "combat explained" in the strategy articles subforum

 

[Elkad]

The other point is that combat always works. Some units (knights are the main one) are immune to first strikes, so you can end up with an army that might as well be unpromoted.

 

[Balderstrom]

The other issue, when attacking cities especially - you are better off giving the unit a promotion for city attack, than a promotion against a specific type of unit.

Oddly enough once you give a promotion like +25% vs Archers to a unit, it will almost never get the chance to fight an archer, the defender will be something else besides an archer.
I've actually had a recent game where my odds for a fight were close to 79%+ gave one of the specific promotions to my unit, and my odds went DOWN to ~72% as the defender unit changed to something else.

Which makes the promotion system kinda broken,
+COMBAT : Always get
+CITY ATK: Always get against cities
+CITY DEF: Always get in a City.

All the others for +ATK are almost a moot point, seems like there should just be a
+FIELD ATK: Always get in open-ground.

As well the Guerilla and Woodsman promotions highly favor defenders. No bonus to attack until the 3rd one.
And Guerilla III's attack bonus +25% is less than half of the defenders gain for I & II (55%)

 

[MyOtherName]

Oddly enough once you give a promotion like +25% vs Archers to a unit, it will almost never get the chance to fight an archer, the defender will be something else besides an archer.

You can occasionally use that to good effect: for example, my cover-promoted swordsman might get to fight and weaken that spearman, and now I can weaken the other defenders with my chariots.

And besides, in the medieval era, longbows are very strong, and will often still defend against cover-promoted units... and armies become large enough that you can afford to wait with your cover-promoted until it does face an archer. (And until then, it does guard against a longbow/crossbow counterattack)

 

[Infantry#14]

if I recall this correctly, a first strike gives about +7%, and a first strike chance gives +3% on average.

If 2 identical units fight each other (50-50%), and 1 unit gets a first strike, then the combat odd is about (57-43%).

If you have the luxury of getting up to drill 4 (+3 first strike and 3 first strike chance), thats about a +30% advantage, while combat 1 to 4 gives you 40% strength. So combat trumps drill statiscally. However, if your unit starts at drill 1 (protective), then you should definitely get drill promotions, as drill 4 and combat 3 gives about the same advantage, while drill makes the unit less likely to get injured.


Personally, I kinda dislike how flanking 2 gives immunity to first strike or some mounted units get immunity to first strike. I guess it is ok for early mounted units to have immunity since they cant have cover promo, but flanking 2 promo gets the benefit way too early. Postpone it at least till flanking 3 would be better for first strike units.

Also, there should be like drill 5 and drill 6 that are analogous to combat 5 and 6. Drill 5 should give the same benefit as drill 4 and drill 6 should grant immunity to collateral damage, -50% from bombing damage (airplanes), and of course another 2 first strikes.

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

There are some indepth answers here, so I won't go into it very far (and I also can't go as indepth as other people here )

My rule of thumb:
Combat is better when fighting units of the same era.
FS is better fighting older units.

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

The other thing that makes me like Drill over combat is the reduction to collateral damage, as well as drill 4's +10% vs. Mounted. whereas combat 1-4 are just +10% apiece and it's not until 5 and 6 that the better stuff comes out.

 

[kristopherb]

Its a good bonus Drilled units are good to defend stacks and cities from collateral but it drilled units should not expect to survive more then 2-3 rounds without healling.