Complete realism mode!

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

I just think it wouldn't be fun to be Greece when 200BC kicks around and kills you.

Or Mali when Europeans kill you.

Or the Mesoamericans when Spain comes.

Baldyr found a solution. It only affects the AI.

 

[I_am_sin7]

Edited.

 

[alcibaides]

Complete Realism for history buffs!

See I had this brilliant idea after a riveting game going for the UHV as Greece on Viceroy (I'm not that great at this game). I noticed that the Romans had built Pompei, and being an avid classicist I knew the sorry fate of this city, and thought how brilliant it would be if I could have it buried by a volcano at 69 AD every single game.

Well yes, there is no way to avoid the eruption of Vesuvius as that is a natural phenomena, so that would make sense. It should happen every game.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the AI followed historic patterns to the letter (as far as gameplay allowed). For intance, Rome conquers Carthage and Greece around 200AD, every game. Germany, Rome and Japan get a defensive pact, then end up at war with Russia, England, America and France (And perhaps some others, I only know teh big players.

You mean 200 BC right? Well what if you play as Greece and then you capture Rome in 300 BC, how could Rome then come and conquer you? Any small change that you make to history will change everything dramatically.

Unless you are super religious and believe that Jesus would have been born from any virgin that lived around 1st century Palestine, then if the Romans had never conquered Judea, established peaceful trade across the Mediterranean, introduced a single language across much of the known world, crucified Jesus, and expelled the Jews from Judea after the destruction of their temple in Jerusalem, then the Abrahamic religions might not have ever become so dominant in the Western World. This means no rise of Islam, no Arabic language across the much of the world, no Crusades, no Spanish reconquista and therefore possibly no conquest of America (at least certainly not precisely in 1492 when the Spanish completed the reconquista), no persecution of Jews in Europe (they might have simply stayed in Judea), probably no World War II, etc.

All history would have changed simply by taking out Rome early on, the same could be said for virtually any other ancient civilization.

Of course you might say that there are certain forces that would have happened no matter what, such as the large scale migration and invasion of peoples and plagues. So perhaps the Plague of Justinian and the Black Death were unavoidable.

Also, perhaps the migrations and invasions of:

• Germanics into Europe (6th century),
• Arabs into the Middle East (7th Century - not necessarily under Islam),
• Turks into the Middle East (11th Century),
• Mongols everywhere (13th Century),
• and sporadic migrations of Berbers into the Mediterranean from the Sahara from time to time

are all part of much larger forces than would have happened no matter what armies happened to have prevailed over whom within the core area of the known world. But aside from these incidents, most of history would have turned out totally different just because one civ early on prevailed over another.

Perhaps a more realistic version of Rhyes would just model these more generic movements of peoples and be less specific?

 

[Leoreth]

Funny but all those incursions you name are already represented in RFC in some way.

 

[alcibaides]

Funny but all those incursions you name are already represented in RFC in some way.

Yes, they are. With the exception of the first one, the Germans appear about 400 years too late.

But the point is that the Rhyes game might be more realistic if these were the ONLY spawnings, seeing as most of the other spawning rely heavily on previous events for them to happen. I.e. There would be no "Spanish" civilization speaking a romance language and following a Judeo-Chrsitain faith if the Romans had not conquered both Spain and Judea. There would be no "American civilization" if the British had not colonized North America. And as for the Portuguese and Dutch civilizations, well suffice is to say that if certain European royals had chosen different spouses or decided slightly different courses of action in wars, these nations might never have existed.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, but what is your point? Making these events dynamic would lead to nothing happening in most situations ... the game just isn't able to reproduce all historical prerequisites for most civilizations.

 

[alcibaides]

Yes, you are right. But there are some possible ways around it.

For example, some civs such as America, Spain, Portugal, etc. could still spawn, but their city names, religion and stuff could be based on who ever was last in their spawn area. So for example, if the French, Vikings, Spanish, Arabs, or Carthaginians went and colonized North America instead of the British, then America could still spawn but with French, Viking, Spanish, Arabic, or Punic city names and religion. Just a thought...

Or alternatively, when you start a game, you could customize the game and choose which civs you want to include.

 

[SalmonSoil]

I have abandoned this idea. Just so you know.

But Gareth, here is your problem. You could make RFC like you describe, but the problem is that's not why people play it. Talk as much as you want about how much we love alternate histories, we still want Europe to be Christian and the Middle East to be Muslim. We want America and Turkey to spawn at the right time. We want the game to contain recognisable fragments of real world history.

 

[Dumanios]

Yes, you are right. But there are some possible ways around it.

For example, some civs such as America, Spain, Portugal, etc. could still spawn, but their city names, religion and stuff could be based on who ever was last in their spawn area. So for example, if the French, Vikings, Spanish, Arabs, or Carthaginians went and colonized North America instead of the British, then America could still spawn but with French, Viking, Spanish, Arabic, or Punic city names and religion. Just a thought...

Or alternatively, when you start a game, you could customize the game and choose which civs you want to include.

Britain: Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Atlanta
France: Philadelphie, Nouveau Marseilles, Boston, Atlanta
Spain: Filadelfia, Nueva Sevilla, Boston, Atlanta
Holland: Philadelphia, Nieuw Amsterdam, Boston, Atlanta
Portugal: Filadélfia, Nova Porto, Boston, Atlanta
Germany: Philadelphia, Frankfurt-auf-Manhatten, Boston, Atlanta
Scandinavia(Danish): Philadelphia, Nye Jorvik, Boston, Atlanta
Russia: Filadelʹfiya, Novyĭ Kiev, Boston, Atlanta
Rome: Philadelphia, Nova Eburacum, Bostonia, Atlanta
Greece(Modern Greek): Filadélfeia, Néa Kórinthos, Vostó̱ni̱, Atlánta
Turkey: Filedelfiya, Yeni Ankara, Boston, Atlanta
Arabia: Fylādlfyā, Jdyd ar-Ryāḑ, Bwsţn, Ātlāntā
Babylonia(Arabic): Fylādlfyā, Bghdād al-Jdydh, Bwsţn, Ātlāntā
Egypt(Arabic): Fylādlfyā, al-Qāhrh al-Jdydh, Bwsţn, Ātlāntā
Carthage(Arabic): Fylādlfyā, Qrţāj al-Jdydh, Bwsţn, Ātlāntā
Mali(French): Philadelphie, Nouveau Tombouctu, Boston, Atlanta
India: Philāḍēlphiyā, Na'ī mumba'ī, Bōsṭāna, Aṭalāṇṭā
China: Fèichéng, Xīn tiānjīn, Bōshìdùn, Yàtèlándà
Mongolia(Chinese): Fèichéng, Xīn Khanbaliq, Bōshìdùn, Yàtèlándà
Japan: Firaderufia, Atarashii Ōsaka, Bosuton, Atoranta
Aztecs(Guessing): Filedelphian, New Tampico, Bostlan, Atlantan

The Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians, Carthaginians, Malinese and Mongolia could use these examples in their own languages, as could the Aztecs. The Persians, Mayans, Incacs and Khmer have no city names as well.

 

[Leoreth]

Germany: Philadelphia, Frankfurt-am-Manhatten, Boston, Atlanta

LOL! It would be "Frankfurt auf Manhattan", I guess. "am" is only used in connection with rivers. "Frankfurt am Hudson", maybe. But it wouldn't be called Hudson in this case, I guess

 

[blizzrd]

Yes, they are. With the exception of the first one, the Germans appear about 400 years too late.

There are Horse Archers and Axemen that represent Germanic tribes at about this time.

 

[alcibaides]

Ok I stand corrected then. But the main point I was trying to make is that a "complete realism" mode is actually less realistic because any tiny change you make to history would have dramatic repurcussions later on.

Unless you take on one of the later spawning civs. Then it would be cool if everything is as it was in the real world when you spawn.

Has anyone done any kind of mod or made a scenario like this? I.e. if you play as Rome, then you would find that Alexander had already done his conquests and the whole of the Mid-East was Greek. Or if you play as Spain you find the Arabs are controling Southern Spain and all of North Africa.

Currently if you play as Rome and you want historical realism you have to think of the Babylonians as the Seleucids and the Egyptians are the Ptolemids.