Conquests: Fall of Rome strategy/tip thread

[BrianJ]

I'm creating one thread per conquest in order to discuss strategies and experiences with each conquest. I'm curious to see what people think is the best civ to play for each one, as well as the easiest and toughest. I'd like to see some straegies and tips for each civ.

 

[thetrooper]

In this scenario - no time to loose!

Each Roman civilization will earn at least 250 Victory Points (VP) per turn, allowing them to get near the 35,000 VP goal for this conquest by about Turn 100. Both halves of Rome must be eliminated from the game by this time or one of them will be able to claim victory.

Ed Beach, BreakAway Games

I have played all civilizations except for the Huns. My personal rank:

1. Franks
2. Vandals
3. Ostrogoths
4. (Sassanids)
5. Celts
6. Anglo Saxons
7. Visogoths

Sassanids in parenthesis as they can´t follow the barbarian tech tree (unless you succeed in "steal technology").

Grab some decent land and research as fast as you can along the barbarian path:

Barbarism: Raider 2/1/1
Marauding: Marauder 4/2/1 Collateral Damage (to targeted tile)
Pillaging: Pillager 6/2/1 Enslavement (worker); Collateral Damage
Sacking: Warlord 8/2/1 Enslavement (marauder); Collateral Damage
Barbarian Leadership: Scourge of God (Wonder) Creates Warlord every 5 turns; Allows larger armies; Increases chance of military leader.

Tech trade like crazy (contacts and WM for roman techs).
I expand until I get Pillagers, then build them en masse. About this time Western Rome usually declares war on me. Send Pillager stacks (8-10) to the nearest VP locations. Raze the cities unless they fit your building pattern. Fortify the VP locations and build fortress there. Bribe the other barbarian civs into war. Why do I prefer the weaker attack of the pillager (6) compared
to the warlord (8)? Because they enslave the enemy (33%) and give you a worker (Don´t waste your own population). Your goal is to weaken w and e Rome (remember their victory points every turn). Pause if you run out of momentum (demand techs for peace treaty). 8 cities down is enough to wipe out a civ. Keep an eye on F8 - the victory status screen. Your pillagers and warlords are attackers, their defence is bad. Keep at least two together for "bombardment" when attacked. Once you have destroyed the romans, go for the other barbarian civs and track down every VP location on the map!​

 

[stachnie]

I have tried Huns, Ostrogoths and Sassanids at Regent, these last are favourite. They start next to a a lot of luxuries. their core cities are quite developped and they don't have plague. Now I play them at Monarch and I am about to win quite easily.

I have built more workers to develop land (esp. connect luxuries), low-food cities build some defense, contacted Byzantines, bought their contatcts, traded techs and luxury for WM, luxury and gold with Romans and Byzantines to reach new era ASAP, explored North (contact with Huns and Ostrogoths). There were a few cities with low production but high food - after they built Workers I switched to Migrants. 2-3 core cities built infrastructure (Library, Colosseum).

After entering new era I discovered the tech required to Justinian's Leadership (free barracks) and got a SGL and went after Christianity and Monasticism. Then I made some money, stole Barbarism from Celts, bought other available Barbarian techs (incredibly cheap!) and started to build Scourge of God plus palace prebuild for St Peter's Bassilica (I love these free temples). I managed to get both (I needed Gold from Romans and Silver from Byzantines or vice versa) and then Hagia Sophia (not very useful - just for fun), in the meantime some high-production cities were producing Heavy Cavalry and Warlords. Romans declared war so I paid some other civs to attack them and make them busy. After some time they were destroyed by Franks.

When I felt my army was ready (a nice bunch of Heavy Cavalry and Warlords) I tricked Byzantines to declare war to me and I destroyed them. I managed to capture Alexandria with the Great Lighthouse so I had all available wonders Then expansion to North: now I am crushing Huns, Ostrogoths were destroyed by someone else and, in general, whole world is in a war. The game is over: although I lack almost 20 k VP to win I am the strongest, St Peter's Bassilica expands my borders, have 4 armies and a lot of gold (it would be a nonsense to research Future Techs) so I may upgrade all captured Marauders to Warlords.


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.

 

[thetrooper]

Some of the experts have done succession games for this scenario.

Post #6 in this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78821

 

[boogaboo]

I've started (only 30 turns now) my first time on this conquest as the Huns. (Emperor)
They start in the most isolated place on the map with 12 horsemen and 12 migrants and can expand west, north and south a LOT.

I'm gonna take the expansion and use it to build me an empire, then get my points from conqering other nations.
The only problem I can see is if Rome won't be destroyed by the AIs without my help...
Anyone knows if the AIs are going to actually win Rome without me??

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

They can. Especially Franks and Celts, since AI WRome tends to settle new, badly defended cities in reach of them.
Onw thing is important, though: Your Barbarian allies need a longer period of peace in the early game; otherwise, they can't get enough cities up, and especially don't connect sufficient resources (Iron!). And without Iron and Horses, the cannot overcome the Legions.

 

[DBear]

trooper, why do you dislike the Visigoths? I find them the best, because they are in reach with both halves of the Roman Empire. That way you don't have to rely on the other barbarian tribes to take out the other empire.

 

[boogaboo]

Thanks, DocT!

I hope this will come true.
I don't think anyone should lack iron or horses.. they're all over the place.

LUX TIP:
I'm doing one "funny" thing - I have only furs (lots of them, up north), but I have 2 other luxuries (2 silks and Ivory) on the east edge of the Sassanids, and I think I could have taken them both if I had settled there at the start..
Now I can Only take 1 (Ivory) since I sent one migrant from the first wave of BUILT migrants there, not one of the migrants I start with...
I could have taken both and leave the Sassanids with one silk so they have only Ivory to "complain" about.
Still, a long road should be built in noman's land.

@DBear - You are talking to someone who wrote his post 6 months ago.. keep in mind he may not answer.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

There are oodles of resources, but still the AI in wartime mode has troubles in connecting them (see the ERome and WRome RBCiv games).

 

[thetrooper]

DBear, boogaboo: After playing a little more, yes the Visigoths are quite good. Maybe the best. As boogaboo said, I posted a long time ago. Things may change

 

[boogaboo]

Great thread you put there, TheTrooper!
I need to read all of it... AFTER I finish the game..

 

[Emperor_Basil]

Is there a patch that will allow someone to play as E or W Rome? I have beaten it as several barabarian powers, and thought that a real challenge would be to play as either Roman Empire, for the following reasons.
1. Imperialism is CRAP!!!! - no MP's, rampant corruption, VERY limited unit support, and WW - not sure if it is hi or low.
2. You start stretched out across the entire map, which only exacerbates the corruption of Imperialism,
3. You can only smash so many barbarians before they start building pillagers, and
4 . The cities you start with are underpopulated, and in some cases, underdeveloped.

 

[thetrooper]

Emperor Basil: If you kindly ask Doc Tsiolkovski (see post #9). I know that he has played as one of the Romans

 

[thetrooper]

Eastern Roman Empire

Western Roman Empire

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Emperor_Basil: If you read the whole threads, you may find the finally suggested tweaks. While some of them are only meant to make that scenario even harder, by all means give yourself one or two more Harbors in Asia Minor. That's just a pita...
And, be prepared for a challenge. Winning Napoleonic Europe with a 4-city-Civ like Sweden is definitely easier .

 

[Emperor_Basil]

My dear Doc_Tsiolkovsky,
It was *definitely* a challenge - fortunately, the stupid AI worked in my favour - Sassanids changed to Imperialism at the first opportunity (chuckles evilly), and they didnt send attempts to pillage my colonies - wasted Legions there :-(. Did a lot of dancing around Jerusalem, and was rewarded with a MGL!!!!! (joy!). Emperor Justinian kicked ass, heh heh... Regular (13/13) Emperor Justinian can wipe out large Persian forces of Spearmen, horsemen and Archers very quickly. The Huns blind-sided me : they waited until my troops were fully committed against the Persians until attacking (and taking, worse luck) Cappadocia and Iconium. Fortunately, I managed to turn Nicomedia into a Legion factory (9 turns), this added to judiciously hurried Legions elsewhere and Heavy Cavalry units turned the tide without losing Ancyra.
Oh, it seems that Western Rome is a corpse :-(. Not one settler the entire game, and they couldn't even hold what they started with. I had to send precious Legions to save Northern Italy. W.R. ended the scenario on 7 cities lost(Britain, A. Treverorum, Aquileia, and Milan - twice!)

The Order of Ops was as follows:
1. Establish colonies - Egypt and the Sinai
1= Establish new cities - Greece and W/Turkey
2. Reinforce Judea and Syria
2= Ally with Goths vs Vandals and Huns
3. Send troops to W.R.'s aid
3= Mass workers for improvements, for productive cities and many resources.
4. Build St. Peter's Basilica (free temples do wonders for the people AND the budget)
4= Go on the offensive vs. Persia. Make sure that W.R. doesnt fall - you DON'T want those Warlords attacking your cities
5. Build Justinian's Leadership.
6. Enjoy your victory (VP's)

Final roll-call

Anglo-Saxons - killed.
Celts - Conquered Britain, were foiled by my navy in making forther progress.
Franks - Lost 5 cities, allied with W.R. and E.R. vs Anglo-Saxons and Vandals.
Huns - Lost 2 cities, took 2 E.R. cities, lost them too. No significant progress thereafter.
Ostrogoths - Lost 6 cities to various Bbn foes, allied with W.R. and E.R. vs Huns.
Sassanids - Failed to take a single city(including Nisibis!), lost 4 cities to Emperor Justinian.
Vandals - Hammer W.R. for quite some time (taking Milan and Aquileia), ultimately destroyed by Visigoths
Visigoths- Ally with E.R. and W.R., hammer Vandals into submission

Eastern Rome - loses two cities(Iconium, Cappadocia - I was sensible enough to burn them to the ground rather than retake them), recolonises Greece, Bulgaria, Western Turkey, hammers Sassanids, hammers Anglo-Saxons (ultimately destroying them), props up W.R.

Western Rome - loses 7 cities, fails to establish any colonies, despite lavish help from Estern Rome. Does an excellent job of keeping the Western Barb's off my back!

P.S. It took 5 tries!

 

[boogaboo]

Well, I'm now at about mid game through with {Huns, Emperor} , but am also starting to worry -
My real concern is.. no one attacks the Romans - east, west, I don't care.. the AIs are looking like true nato members instead of fighting!
It will be hard to reach the East, just because of the HUGE distances.

I got the Scourge of God, and I'm a few turns from St. Peter's something, which will finally give me (tons of) culture, which I currently have NONE.

I had 1 city sneek attacked, but I won't reach 8
I went on and expanded until the Ostrogoths were an easy target for 8-city-ERADICATION!
The screenshot shows them gone .

There are no victory point locations in my far proximity..
Only with war will I get more and more points, but still must kill the Romans!
Let us pray the Romans will die before 35000 points

 

[thetrooper]

My real concern is.. no one attacks the Romans - east, west, I don't care.. the AIs are looking like true nato members instead of fighting!

That's annoying. In most of my games I have to initiate wars - either me or the Romans.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Now, why should the others attack Rome by themselves? Of course, you have to sign MAs...
Also, it doesn't make much sense in VP scenarios to kill off weak AIs (it doesn't really hurt, but you gain nothing by doing so; a distraction).
And from looking at the map, I think you try to play a VP scenario like a HoF attempt - wth do you need all those cities for??? And 50% luxury tax???
A complete waste. 2x OCN is enough. Then, launch your Warlords - they'll need some time to reach the theatres. After that, focus on HCavs to catch up. And build Raiders in unconnected cities near the frontline, and upgrade them in a city with iron.

@Emperor_Basil:
Congrats .
I really enjoyed that scen as well, simply because I did have to learn new tactics. It indeed is something different...

 

[boogaboo]

@DocT - Generally, you are correct on the size of my empire.
I build for each city a courthouse, and am trying something more like an HoF attempt, but I do conquests for fun, and I think it just may work.
The good part is me having lots of cities inside a DEFINITE protected border.
Another plus is that unlike HoF games, you have 1-pop migrants
About the 50%/50% -
I have only 2 luxury yet, and don't need any science now, so money would be also good, but you can't buy anything with it (except upgrades, and embassies).
So I don't need both at so high, but I rather stick to 50/50 and keep the money to hold all the corrupted cities structures if they'll cost too much near the end. Other ideas?


-- TIP --
I noticed that the Huns haven't too much of anything to begin with, except lots of rivers food and forests.
So now I have tons of unprotected cities inside a well protected border which is expanding in only one direction so far - west!
I do build courts a lot, then aquaduct if needed, then barracks..
The Sassanids border has been quiet, and thus all my wars are on the west.

-- VPs --
Note that I'm real far from any VP location, so I must earn my VPs in wars.
I'm far above any AI except the 2 Romans.. I may even succeed to out war them in VP before they win at about turn 130...

-- Game Update --
Update from my game is that 3 Visigoths cities have been razed after they declared war on me.
I signed a pact with the Vandals to help me kill them off .
I can see myself heading towards East Rome now.. and it is not yet 100 turns.
St. Peter's is mine, and you can imagine the culture I'm getting with so many cities.. not to speak of my 2nd radius borders..