Continent of remaining Civ?

What continent should the remaining Civ be from?


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bonafide11

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In response to the other thread debating what South American civ should be added, I decided to make one for the continent of the remaining civ. While Europe is represented excessively (in my opinion), arguments can be made for an Africa, Asia, and the Americas all needing another civilization (I'm treating North America and South America as one continent, I believe this is how Civ tends to treat them as well).

I believe Africa needs another civilization the most.

The Americas have the U.S., the Iroquois, the Maya, the Inca, and the Aztecs. More than one Native American civ would be shocking to me and be somewhat overkill considering the limited amount of civilizations available. I can't see them adding Brazil; it is a modern nation and an emerging power, but has not truly had that significant of a historical impact to deserve inclusion in a historical based game. There has not been any other American civ after Columbus with that large of a historical impact. The Maya, the Inca, and the Aztecs are the most well known and significant civilizations prior to Columbus, and I think they represent the pre-Columbian era well enough.

Asia could use another civ, but again it is fairly well represented. At the very least, China, Japan, India, Korea, Mongolia, and Siam are all definitely Asian civilizations, and several other civilizations could be argued to be Asian as well. Even though there is room for more Asian civs, Asia is not represented as poorly as some people on these forums seem to indicate.

Even with the addition of Ethiopia, Africa is still very much underrepresented. Although Egypt is part of Africa, many people see it as more of a Middle East civ than an African one. If you count Egypt as African, then you have to consider Persia, Babylon, and Arabia as Asian, so that only strengthens the argument that Asia is much better represented than Africa. Carthage is added, but it is hardly an African civ; it is as much European as African. That leaves the Songhai and Ethopia as the only "true" African civilizations in the game, despite the long history of Africa. The entire southern half of Africa is neglected. Ethiopia counts for the north-eastern half, the Songhai counts for the north-western half, but the bottom half is completely empty.

It seems to me that Africa is by far the most deserving continent to gain another civilization. Before spouting off something ignorant about how Africa didn't have any civilizations, read up on it. They could go for the Zulu as the usual African civ, but I have a feeling they want a more historical civilization and less of a minor one this time around. Unlike previous versions of Civ, they have tended to select more powerful and "authentic" civilizations instead of just well known ones in Civ V (with the exception of Polynesia).

My suggestion would be either the Kingdom of Kongo or the Kingdom of Mutapa. Read up on them and I think you would agree they are deserving to be in the game. There are other African civilizations that could be argued for inclusion as well, but I believe those would be most fitting.

Thoughts?

(Edit: By the way, the "Other" vote was for if you believe another European civ or potentially Australia deserves to be included.)
 
Africa/Asia.... meaning middle east. Have to lean toward Zulu or Sumer at this point.
 
I agree-- my dream for the last civ would be Kongo, and I feel Africa should get another civ first seeing as how it was so poorly represented until now.

I would truly be surprised if the ninth civ turns out to be another European, and we're now at the stage where any Asian or American civ they'd come up with would be new to civ (although I'd like to see Indonesia/Majapahit, and wouldn't mind another native American civ: Apache or Mississippi, for instance).

Part of me thinks it might be the Zulus after all. It makes sense to keep a fan favourite 'til last, rather than a more left-field civ. But I honestly can't guess what they have up their sleeve.

In short: I'd love another African civ, but think that at this stage, anything we get is going to be novel.
 
I hope for Zulu, but too many war oriented civs are not fun.
 
I still think its wrong that they count North and South America as one area, but, assuming it is the case, I dont think the remaining civ will be there.
I guess its going to be Asia, either Majapahit or Tibet. I find it odd that they are counting the Huns as Asian after all.

I think Zulu and another african civ could make a great DLC scenario combo. Same thing with the Sioux.
 
In response to the other thread debating what South American civ should be added, I decided to make one for the continent of the remaining civ. While Europe is represented excessively (in my opinion), arguments can be made for an Africa, Asia, and the Americas all needing another civilization (I'm treating North America and South America as one continent, I believe this is how Civ tends to treat them as well).

I believe Africa needs another civilization the most.

The Americas have the U.S., the Iroquois, the Maya, the Inca, and the Aztecs. More than one Native American civ would be shocking to me and be somewhat overkill considering the limited amount of civilizations available. I can't see them adding Brazil; it is a modern nation and an emerging power, but has not truly had that significant of a historical impact to deserve inclusion in a historical based game. There has not been any other American civ after Columbus with that large of a historical impact. The Maya, the Inca, and the Aztecs are the most well known and significant civilizations prior to Columbus, and I think they represent the pre-Columbian era well enough.

Asia could use another civ, but again it is fairly well represented. At the very least, China, Japan, India, Korea, Mongolia, and Siam are all definitely Asian civilizations, and several other civilizations could be argued to be Asian as well. Even though there is room for more Asian civs, Asia is not represented as poorly as some people on these forums seem to indicate.

Even with the addition of Ethiopia, Africa is still very much underrepresented. Although Egypt is part of Africa, many people see it as more of a Middle East civ than an African one. If you count Egypt as African, then you have to consider Persia, Babylon, and Arabia as Asian, so that only strengthens the argument that Asia is much better represented than Africa. Carthage is added, but it is hardly an African civ; it is as much European as African. That leaves the Songhai and Ethopia as the only "true" African civilizations in the game, despite the long history of Africa. The entire southern half of Africa is neglected. Ethiopia counts for the north-eastern half, the Songhai counts for the north-western half, but the bottom half is completely empty.

It seems to me that Africa is by far the most deserving continent to gain another civilization. Before spouting off something ignorant about how Africa didn't have any civilizations, read up on it. They could go for the Zulu as the usual African civ, but I have a feeling they want a more historical civilization and less of a minor one this time around. Unlike previous versions of Civ, they have tended to select more powerful and "authentic" civilizations instead of just well known ones in Civ V (with the exception of Polynesia).

My suggestion would be either the Kingdom of Kongo or the Kingdom of Mutapa. Read up on them and I think you would agree they are deserving to be in the game. There are other African civilizations that could be argued for inclusion as well, but I believe those would be most fitting.

Thoughts?

Kongo is also fairly northerly, indeed essentially adjacent to the territory of the Songhai. Moreover I wonder what you would do with them, since they're from much the same era as the Songhai (although they survived longer) and similarly technologically advanced, although more trade-focused.

For Africa, I'd favour the Merina Kingdom to represent a southern African civ, as it was a late-developing feudal system with sufficient input from nearby European cultures to rapidly develop an advanced technology base. It could gain science benefits from foreign missionaries (the London Missionary Society, I believe, was instrumental in facilitating Madagascar's technological and economic development), and/or diplomatic bonuses when dealing with other civilizations (rather than city-states -so a novel way to approach a diplomatic win condition), since Madagascar's 18th and 19th Century history was essentially one of remaining independent by playing British and French interests off against one another, and only failed when the British lost interest in the island.

For those interested in that aspect, the Merina would also represent an African civ with the potential for a female ruler, as the most prominent ruler after Rama I (who unified the island) was Queen Ranavalona I.

EDIT: Another plus for the Merina - geographically African, ethnically Indonesian. That way they can satisfy everyone. :)

I still think its wrong that they count North and South America as one area, but, assuming it is the case, I dont think the remaining civ will be there.
I guess its going to be Asia, either Majapahit or Tibet. I find it odd that they are counting the Huns as Asian after all.

I don't know that the designers are counting the Huns as Asian. Essentially nothing is known of their culture within Asia, and they were only present in its westernmost portion before being driven into Europe by the expansion of civilizations further east. At least as Wikipedia would have it, the idea that they originated as far east as Mongolia is now considered unlikely.
 
South America and South East Asia are needing civs.

And Africa is not? Southeast Asia has Siam, and how many civilizations do you need south of China and east in Asia? I don't really understand the logic of saying southeast Asia needs more civs when it already has Siam, which is one more than the entire south half of Africa. Care to elaborate on how southeast Asia (or South America) are any less represented than Africa or any more deserving of an additional civ than Africa?
 
South America would be deserted like South Africa if not for the Incas, and they are DLC, I dont think its so far fetched to think they will add a Sub Saharan african Civ later on as DLC as well.

As long as the remaining Civ is not european, Im fine with whatever is...even Inuit.
 
Fully agree that the next one shouldn't be European, but although it is likely not a European civ, it is more likely to be European than any other particular continent. In civ games Europe has always been more likely to get a civilization than any other continent. These are the hard statistical facts that should be kept in mind. ;)
 
Bona, Africa has Ethiopia, Songhai, Egypt and Carthage. I know that you dont consider Carthage and Egypt african civs, but they are (at least geographically).

South America have the Incas and thats it. Maias and Astecas are from Central America; USA and Iroquois are N. America.

South East Asia can use another civ, probably kmer. Siam is nice, but I think they are not enough to represent such a huge area.
 
South America has exactly 1 civ total, which is a DLC civ. Africa had at 2 from the outset, and will have 3 after the expansion (four, if you want to count Carthage). I'm still rooting for another African civ, and I'm not even sure that there are non-Incan nations in pre-colonial South America that wouldn't be too obscure to make a civ, but it's obviously less represented.
 
It is simply true that Africa is the most underrepresented nation in Civ.

Thinking back to Civ III, there was only the Zulu and nothing else then, so the game doesn't have a great record for representing Africa well.

Although, to make it simple, you could consider Egypt as African. I did once get acquainted with some people from Somalie, and I believe they are not considered as African by other African peoples, they were too close to Arabia or whatever. Maybe even Ethiopians are not considered African then... Cultural identity is difficult stuff, there is something to say for just looking at the continents. Yeah, even then Africa is underrepresented, as Bonafide alsready said.
 
And Africa is not? Southeast Asia has Siam, and how many civilizations do you need south of China and east in Asia? I don't really understand the logic of saying southeast Asia needs more civs when it already has Siam, which is one more than the entire south half of Africa. Care to elaborate on how southeast Asia (or South America) are any less represented than Africa or any more deserving of an additional civ than Africa?

It's a question of proportion. Africa has held relatively few lasting, urbanised empires with any reach. Southeast Asia has been urbanised with complex governments and advanced technologies for longer, with a greater variety of discrete societies arising as a result. What's more, the unrepresented part of East Asia includes the islands, where for obvious reasons distinct societies developed in partial isolation. So while Africa is numerically underrepresented compared with other areas of the world, if you add more without adding more in Asia it will be overrepresented in terms of its global importance for the development of complex societies (as Europe already is). It's the same reason someone noted that north Asia has very few civs (in fact none indigenous to the region are present in Civ), and yet no one is asking for civs from that region as ardently as they are for Africa or South America, both of which have a richer known history of complex societies. What's more, considering just the civs from the expansion, there are so far no Asian civs except for essentially European civs that extended a bit into far western Asia (Byzantium) or a loose group of nomads that occurred at Asia's western margin but are in the game because of their impact in Europe, not because they're nominally Asian (Huns). Yet there is at least one from every other region Civ recognises.

That's reflected in the names that come up for Africa: they're all the same ones - mainly Kongo and Ethiopia (notwithstanding the Zulus); I've also suggested the Merina and Swahili and someone else the Mutawa. But that's pretty much your lot. For Asia multiple people have suggested Mujapahit (the largest and last of several Indonesian empires), Tibet, the Khmer, Burma (Myanma Kingdom), in the same kinds of numbers that people have proffered only two civs - Kongo and Ethiopia - for Africa. That's before we even touch on the Malay trading empire, the Chams and other Vietnamese powers, Sri Lanka...
 
If they're creating hype for the remaining civ then the only logical conclusion is that it is something too unexpected and out of the ordinary. Alpha Centaurians or Atlantis.
 
i can see an argument for asia, since there's nothing there for the expansion yet, but i also agree that there isn't much else that can be added. i'm going to go ahead and vote for them anyway, though, partly because i want indonesia and partly because i want to be a pain.
 
If they're creating hype for the remaining civ then the only logical conclusion is that it is something too unexpected and out of the ordinary. Alpha Centaurians or Atlantis.

Thats why I think the last civ will not be Brazil, Gran Colombia, Kongo or khmer. These civs are not "special"enough for most players.

My guess is some ancient civ or maybe Zulu.
 
Didn't they do this with Holy Roman Empire in Civ 4? That was certainly a shocker, don't think a civ was ever greeted with more horror and surprise than that. Maybe we'll get a Bourbon civ with Joan of Arc as its leader?
 
Welcome to the forums, EulerMcE! :band:
I think it's just marketing strategy, to have info coming out in little bits and pieces. At least it keeps the forum community busy.
 
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