[C3C] COTM 166 Iroquois Deity - The Remnants

[I. Larkin]

Just finished the game and feel pity that it is over. (620 AD, Conquest). It was very unusual Deity game when Great Lib was really useful. LaSalle, did you consider to capture it? Also military alliance with gpt helps, and spoonwood's tricke with connect - disconnect may work.

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[MrRandomGuy]

Just finished the game and feel pity that it is over. (620 AD, Conquest). It was very unusual Deity game when Great Lib was really useful. LaSalle, did you consider to capture it? Also military alliance with gpt helps, and spoonwood's tricke with connect - disconnect may work.

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I'm quite interested in the details of this conquest victory.

 

[Spoonwood]

Just finished the game and feel pity that it is over. (620 AD, Conquest). It was very unusual Deity game when Great Lib was really useful. LaSalle, did you consider to capture it? Also military alliance with gpt helps, and spoonwood's tricke with connect - disconnect may work.

​

I thought I read that deliberate pillaging of one's roads is not legal in the XOTM competitions. I don't believe I mentioned it above.

By 'stealing', I did mean to refer to espionage (which is possible once your civ learns Writing). That can be less expensive than purchasing techs with gold per turn.

 

[I. Larkin]

I thought I read that deliberate pillaging of one's roads is not legal in the XOTM competitions. I don't believe I mentioned it above.

By 'stealing', I did mean to refer to espionage (which is possible once your civ learns Writing). That can be less expensive than purchasing techs with gold per turn.

Indeed.

Deliberate destruction of trade routes
Deliberate action to break an existing trade route to cause the cancellation of a GPT deal without loss of reputation to the player, is banned as an unbalancing exploit..

So, the only trick is gpt deal with MA versus civ at the turn of defeat.
As to "Espionage" it is comparable with gpt trade if take into account unsuccessful steal.
Most efficient is 3 turn research and gpt for the last turn.
However, technical parity may be not enough to win on Deity. Efficient politics like "fight together against strongest civ" is key issue here.

 

[I. Larkin]

I'm quite interested in the details of this conquest victory.​

Turn 3 : 3900BC

Iroquois settled Salamanca

Turn 25 : 2800BC

Iroquois settled Niagara Falls, sent Curragh counterclockwise.

Turn 32 : 2510BC

Iroquois settled Grand River

Turn 44 : 1990BC

Discovered Philosophy -> Monarchy (trade Philo for Poly IBT)

Turn 45 : 1950BC

Trade around Philosophy and Polytheism for all techs around; establish Monarchy.

Turn 59 : 1550BC

Iroquois settled Allegheny

Turn 66 : 1350BC

Enter Middle Age, Engineering 19 turns., bpt =77

Monopoly on Currency and Literature.

Turn 69 : 1275BC

Egyptians declare war. MAPTD with Mongols and Ottomans against Egyptians

Ottomans got Monotheism. No Barbarians around.

Turn 93 : 710BC

Iroquois captured the Egyptian city Alexandria
Now we have Horses.

Turn 102 : 530BC

Iroquois started golden age

Turn 103 : 510BC

Iroquois captured the Egyptian city Thebes with the Great Lib.

Turn 108 : 410BC

Iroquois captured the Egyptian city Byblos

Turn 110 : 370BC

Iroquois settled Tyendenaga

Iroquois gained great leader Shenandoah -> Knights’ Army.

Turn 111 : 350BC

Iroquois captured the Egyptian city Lisht and Abydos as a peace treaty deal. Trade Iron and Lux to them for money.

Turn 115 : 270BC

Iroquois captured the Arabic city Yamama.

Turn 117 : 230BC

Iroquois captured the Arabic city Fustat

Turn 118 : 210BC
Iroquois settled Kahnawake. Trade to Egyptians Saltpeter to help agaist China and Mongol.

IBT
Got Education and Chemistry from TGL.
Bring China to MAPTD versus Spain Ottomans and Arabs for Education.
That ends Chinese ToA. With 20 Cities they were superpower. Arabs and Egyptians are research leaders.
Mongols very militaristic. Russians backward. Spain wonderbuilder.

Turn 120 : 170BC

Iroquois captured the Spanish city Vitoria

Turn 122 : 130BC

Iroquois ended golden age

 

[I. Larkin]

 

[Green Bear]

3900 BC Found Salamanca
2900 BC Found Niagara Falls
2670 BC Found Grand River
2390 BC Found Allegheny
2190 BC Found Cattaraugus
2150 BC Found Oil Springs
1910 BC Found Tonawanda
1830 BC Found Mauch Chunk
1700 BC Found St. Regis
1650 BC Found Centralia
1575 BC Found Akwesasne
1550 BC Republic Slingshot
1475 BC Found Tyendenaga
1450 BC Found Kahnawake
1375 Niagara Falls builds the Statue of Zeus, Egypt declares war, Alliance with Mongols
1300 BC Found Oka, Found Caughnawaga, Found Chondote
1175 BC Found Gandasetaigon
1100 BC Found Ganogeh
1075 BC Found Gewauga, Found Gayagaahe, Found Goigouen
1000 BC

900 BC Found Kawauka
850 BC Found Kente
825 BC Found Kiohero
775 BC Found Owego
650 BC Got Engineering. No more research.
610 BC Capture Elephantine (Horses)
410 BC Declare war on Mongols
10 AD Declare war on Russia
110 AD China declares war
150 AD Declare war vs. Spain
210 AD Capture Madrid (Temple of Artemis)
340 AD Domination victory

I got only Engineering and Feudalism in the MA. Could defeat the AI (which had Musketeers) with MWs.

 

[milr]

Read the legend several times as I stared first toward the desert, then toward the hill. Clearly the desert offered no promise of green, luscious landscape!
Hill to south and Giant landmass suggested desert was near equator. Moved south two squares to settle. I guessed an uninhabited island was not easily reachable by a galley (see legend pp3).
Figured it might be useful to build TGLight. Traded for Masonry to allow early start on Palace pre-build TGLib. Kept peace with neighbors demanding tribute with $ saved during TGLib build.
As game progressed, strengthened relationships with neighbors via gifts of abundant resources. At game end, received recognition as The Great Peacemaker of legend.

 

[Spoonwood]

So, the only trick is gpt deal with MA versus civ at the turn of defeat.

I'm not sure about that. Imagine the following:

1. The French are at war with Germany. Germany is your neighbor. France has one source of spices (for example) and you have another source of spices in a city, let us call it City of Spices, adjacent to Germany's borders.

2. Then you gift away City of Spices to France.

3. Send France gold per turn in exchange for hard goods, gold, techs, maps, or even take the bolder step of renegotiating the peace treaty with gold per turn sent to France.

4. Germany being at war will send units to take City of Spices and it has no defenders when it gets gifted away.

Will France still have the ability to supply your empire the spices now having only one source instead of two? I'm not sure.

However, if France has no spices, and you gift them a City of Spices next to a source of two spices, sign a deal involving gpt for hard good, and Germany captures City of Spices, that should cancel the deal while keeping your reputation intact.

There may exist times when one could trade for a resource or luxury in their naturally settled lands and notice that an AI likely might soon lose control of the resource or luxury. Perhaps Germany captured a city close to French wines in Alscae. And your people just happen to have a wines source also. So, then your wines get pillaged. Trade first. Then, if one has workers ready, reroad your wines source. Then Germany takes Alsace, the wines deal gets cancelled, but you get to keep the hard goods. And such wouldn't violate the rules, because Germany's capture caused the cancellation of such a trade deal, not your unit's pillaging.

Perhaps that would work better with iron, horses, or saltpeter though, since a turn or two without those won't cause loss of happiness.

The most ideal situation, I suppose, would be two civs constantly capturing and recapturing one particular city multiple times. Though, I kind of believe such unlikely to happen in civ III.

 

[Lanzelot]

Will France still have the ability to supply your empire the spices now having only one source instead of two? I'm not sure.

As far as I remember, if you have two resources and you trade away one, and then lose the other, the trade remains active and you end up with zero resources for yourself. The trade only breaks down, once you lose both resources.

 

[Spoonwood]

As far as I remember, if you have two resources and you trade away one, and then lose the other, the trade remains active and you end up with zero resources for yourself. The trade only breaks down, once you lose both resources.

I remember that also. But, I'm not entirely sure that the calculation would be the same for AIs. Perhaps it does work the same for them, of course.

I thought of some more possible scenarios:

1. Suppose you lead the Germans. You have a war with France and capture wines adjacent to Alsace. If Germany has no wines source also, one might gift Alscae to America. And also sign America into the war against France, probably not getting their wines in the deal. Then talk to Lincoln and trade him gpt for wines + technology and/or gold, maps. Instead of charging at Paris, have your troops protect your borders. When France retakes Alscae, your gpt deal will get cancelled with America (and you won't have wines). Then charge back at France and retake Alscae. America may still be at war with France. But are The Aztecs or The Maya? Even China or Arabia might work for gifting Alscae once retaken and then repeating something similar. But, unless you're ready for a war with Russia as your neighbor, I'd advise against gifting them Alscae.

Another conceivable situation:

2. You already had one succssful war. You conquered The Ottomans and fortunately it got you two sources of a luxury. The luxury city lies near Egyptian borders. And Egypt is at war with Zululand who you have a peace treaty with. So, gift Zululand the luxury city. Then one could make a deal involving gpt to Zululand for that luxury source, technology, gold, and/or maybe other hard goods. Then when Egypt conquers that city, Zululand won't manage to supply you the luxury and you won't have to pay them gold per turn.

And I'd think the above legal, since the code of conduct got written for human players. If the AIs so happen to cancel some deal because of how they behave, that doesn't violate the code of conduct, correct?