[C3C] COTM 166 Iroquois Deity - The Remnants

[Ruin]

the overwhelming luck factor in this game

At the risk of besmirching @LaSalle, I respectfully disagree. Since we started on the far right, I feel going west was the higher percentage move (or maybe SW, I can't remember but definitely not East)

 

[MrRandomGuy]

It wasn't necessarily a luck factor. The positioning on the map was on the far east and slightly north. Exploring the opposite direction if you're on the far side of a map is encouraged in various player guides on here. So my thinking here was that most people would move in the correct direction - west based on the map or south based on the hill. I made sure moving in the incorrect direction was survivable through several game tests because I could also see someone thinking "I wonder if those clues are a misdirection." (I would have given a helpful hint if someone had speculated that on here.) While it's unfortunate LaSalle was one who did move the wrong way, it's not a total game breaker where there's absolutely no chance to recover.

 

[LaSalle]

My feeling is that yes there was some luck involved, but that it was also poor decision making on my part, Not every game can play out perfectly. My goal is to play out the rest off the game the best that I can. No complaints at all.

 

[Spoonwood]

Like @Lanzelot I went up the mountain and saw the splendor. TBH this was influenced by the fact that this was not purely random but designed by a deity with a sense of humor, so I figured that the start couldn't be that bad. Kudos to @LaSalle for the integrity of not reloading.

I made Salamanca a settler pump too and made Niagara Falls my production workhorse which is now getting an amazing 200 shields per turn. However now I'm tempted to reload myself haha as I've started an ill-advised war and was not prepared for the number of units the AI can brew up on Deity.

Too much time spent playing on Chieftain, eh?

 

[Ruin]

Too much time spent playing on Chieftain, eh?

And whose fault was that, lol? I'll have you know that my latest HOF attempt is on Warlord, btw, so I'm moving up. All jokes aside, I actually learned a lot from both games since you know you're not going to get steamrolled / backstabbed at that difficulty you can concentrate on improving your micro.

 

[templar_x]

At the risk of besmirching @LaSalle, I respectfully disagree. Since we started on the far right, I feel going west was the higher percentage move (or maybe SW, I can't remember but definitely not East)

I may have a totally wrong perception about this, but:
How does, especially in a handmade game, the "starting position in the far right of the map", give you any information about where to move? x-wrap is on, right? so all the landmass could still lie to THE EAST, or not?
t_x

 

[Ruin]

I may have a totally wrong perception about this, but:
How does, especially in a handmade game, the "starting position in the far right of the map", give you any information about where to move? x-wrap is on, right? so all the landmass could still lie to THE EAST, or not?
t_x

You don't, except the map maker is human and no human ever made a pangaea with a bunch of water in the middle and the land on the left and right of the screen except to be a wise guy. And if that was the case you'd be correct about it being a bunch of luck/nonsense.

 

[templar_x]

Weeeelll... that would make me the wise guy, then.
I *am* a regular map maker of this game. And I care about mostly everything in my games and my maps. But please, really, really never assume anything like "he surely places our start position so it is somehow in the middle of the overview map and i can derive from that where to make my initial moves to" in those games that are signed with:
t_x

 

[Ruin]

I won't assume nothing, and your maps are great.

All I'm saying is if you give a random person a piece of paper and tell them to draw a big island and they make a D-shaped bit of land on the left side and a C-shaped bit of land on the right side and say "the rest is on the back" there's definitely something seriously wrong with them lol.

 

[Più Freddo]

We don't play on paper. We play with x-wrap.

 

[Ruin]

Some people print the map and roll it into a big cylinder, then tape the ends together.

 

[alfa156]

Don't give any other game to this stupid guy. Rich map and we are in worst position. I also restarted and play just for experience and experimenting without science advantage - zero science. The better will be 100% till republic and after that zero science is same. Although i move worker west and settler south and see cows

 

[Captain_Jack]

Well I didn't even play the game because I knew the eventual outcome would be my destruction at the hand of nasty neighbors, and I just wasn't up for the abuse. But I think the better players on board here should be commended if they play the game to a conclusion regardless of outcome. So I do see the point in releasing this game as it is. Luck and a good starting location are factors in real-life too!
I thank Mr. Random Guy for the effort he put into making the game, and I look forward to seeing some interesting After-Action Reports.

 

[MrRandomGuy]

Don't give any other game to this stupid guy. Rich map and we are in worst position. I also restarted and play just for experience and experimenting without science advantage - zero science. The better will be 100% till republic and after that zero science is same. Although i move worker west and settler south and see cows

Game Schedule 2023-2026

Game Civilization Level Release Submission Creator COTM162 England Deity 1 Jan 23 31 Mar 23 Captain_Jack GOTM189 Mongols Regent 1 Jan 23 31 Mar 23 Più Freddo COTM163 Japan Emperor 1 Apr 23 30 Jun 23 MrRandomGuy GOTM190 Babylon Monarch 1 Apr 23 30 Jun 23 templar_x COTM164 Inca Demigod 1...

forums.civfanatics.com

There's the game schedule with plenty of openings. Make a map if you don't like others.

 

[Lanzelot]

In the defense of MrRandomGuy, I also have to say, that when thinking a bit about the given start position, then it is not too hard to come up with the "correct" direction of the first few starting moves. After all, several guides advise to explore towards the center of the minimap, and also my train of thought went somewhat along the lines "I'm agricultural, so I need a river, so I better explore towards the "green" than into the desert", so it was more or less natural that I moved south instead of north.

 

[LaSalle]

Spoiler 1495 AD. Late game stand off :

I have found myself in a situation that I really did not want to be in. My goal was a domination victory. There are 2 super powers left in the world, myself and the Ottomans. We each have about 45% of the world. I am in the late industrial age researching flight but the Ottomans are a full era ahead. I have a large military of artillery, cavs, and infantry but the Ottomans have modern armor, mech infantry and probably nukes. The Ottomans and I have a military alliance against the Mongols that have one city left which I have surrounded and could easily take. All other civs have been eliminated. I want to keep the Mongols surrounded to prevent the Ottomans from taking it, ending the war and our millitary alliance. Right now, the Ottomans are gracious with me due to our alliance. They are building the UN and I am hoping for the slight possibility of a diplomatic win but I expect the vote will be a tie. I am afraid that if I attack them, that I will quickly be over run by their modern armor. They have not started building space ship parts yet, but once they start they will quickly beat me to it. They might also get a culture win, they are at 60K now. I don't know how I will proceed but it will be interesting. I can hear that red ambulance off in the distance but I am going to try like hell not to let it get me!

 

[LaSalle]

Spoiler 1700 AD final defeat :

I was pretty sure that this game was lost but needed to try one last desperate attempt prevent defeat. The Ottomans were building space ship parts, were getting close to a cultural win, and out matched me militarily. I had just discovered tanks and still had a couple techs left in the industrial age. I switched to Communism, mobilized for war, and started pop rushing tanks and bombers as fast as I could. I waited until The Ottomans had 9 space ship parts built and then I sneak attacked their capital under right of passage. In a single turn I pillaged all their sources of rubber and oil, captured the capital and another city, sold off all their improvements for cash and then abandoned the cities. I destroyed their space ship, but they were not amused. They came at me with swarms of modern armor. I was able to hold them off for a while with my artillery and bombers but then they started unleashing nuclear bombs on all my core cities multiple times. I lost all my production capacity and could not rebuild because nearly all my workers were destroyed. It took several more turns for them to over run all my cities and to suffer a domination loss.

My biggest problem through the entire game seemed to be trailing behind in tech. Except for a few early ancient age trades, I had to self research every tech. By the time I learned a tech, all the AI's already knew it so I was never able to trade it or sell it. I also did not build many libraries or universities early on instead concentrating on building military. Thanks to MrRandomGuy for creating the game. I enjoyed the challange.

 

[Spoonwood]

Except for a few early ancient age trades, I had to self research every tech.

I find it interesting when an experienced player like yourself meets with such a challenge and fails. From one perspective, it shows that the game has some sort of depth to it. The game would not qualify as a challenge if you won every single time, would it?

Hindsight may be 20/20 and no doubt is easier than making decisions in game. But did you consider stealing?

Please don't take that out of context. Thanks.

 

[LaSalle]

Thank you Spoonwood for the compliment. Even after playing civ3 on and off for 20 years I still struggle at deity level. It requires really good decision making and everything must fall right into place in order for me to win.
No, I did not consider stealing a tech. I rarely make use of spy missions. Maybe this is something that requires more attention in the future. Perhaps some of the expert players could give their opinions on the value of espionage missions.

 

[MrRandomGuy]

It's worth mentioning that I'm not at Deity level and I wasn't ever able to actually win on this one, even when I put the starting location in an optimal spot.

The tech race is difficult at this level. It seems like the best option for people like me who are not great with micromanagement is once you switch to Republic set your research to 0 and just buy tech outright using gpt. I survived much longer on games where I did that versus games where I attempted to self research.