Creating and Using Leaders

[mad-bax]

I have played 3 games now where the following has happened.

An opponent has a leader. I make many successful elite attacks without generating a leader. The opponents leader dies or is used, and on the next turn I generate 1 or more leaders.

Is it an absolute fact that you only cannot generate a leader when you already have one yourself? I wonder if leader generation is possible if another leader exists at all, irrespective of the civ that generated it.

Just one post to say that someone has generated a leader when another civ already has one in existence will put this to bed for me.

 

[Grille]

That's quite interesting, mad-bax. I was once had similar thoughts.

Just one post to say that someone has generated a leader when another civ already has one in existence will put this to bed for me.

No problem, look at this thread.
Both Gen's and my pic show 2 GLs on F3. I possibly even have the save file from that old game which offers the ability to generate a GL while the ai has one at the same time - in case anyone doesn't "trust" those pics.

 

[Rdog]

I just wanted to mention that I recently made a second GL from an Elite* Cavalry unit. I was quite frankly, amazed, since I remember reading this article. Anyway, you can discard that myth, at least in the Vanilla version. It's probably just a highly unlikely statistical probability that you'll keep the same unit alive long enough to get lucky with it twice.

Update: Looks like I'm mistaken!

 

[EMan]

What version of vanilla Civ are you playing with?

 

[Rdog]

1.29f I believe.

 

[alexman]

I have a hard time believing this because the whole reason Firaxis added the * distinction to the Elite units in a patch was so that you know which units can produce a leader and which cannot.

Either it's a bug, or more likely, the unit that produced your leader was not an Elite* unit.

 

[EMan]

The version number will appear at the bottom left hand corner of the Civ Main Menu.

The reason I ask is that earlier versions of Civ (viz. pre-1.29f) MAY have been able to accommodate 2 or more GL's at the same time.

 

[Rdog]

I know it had already produced one because it was already named. It might be a bug, I guess, since I don't claim to have superior knowledge of the game. Are we sure that's why Firaxis put the asterisk there?

P.S. It's 1.29f

 

[Rdog]

Oh, and they weren't at the same time, they were hundreds of years apart.

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by Rdog
I know it had already produced one because it was already named. It might be a bug, I guess, since I don't claim to have superior knowledge of the game. Are we sure that's why Firaxis put the asterisk there?

Hmm, I'm a bit sceptic, too...

about naming a unit twice:
If you got a GL from a horse (or knight - whatever), renamed it, upgraded it and then got a GL from that (upgraded), renamed cavalry, you'll get again the opportunity to rename the unit in vanilla.

This does not explain the already existing *, though (the * and elite status gets removed when upgrading).

Have you still an autosave (preserve random seed checked)?

 

[alexman]

Originally posted by Rdog
I know it had already produced one because it was already named.

Yes, this doesn't prove anything. As Grille says, an upgraded Elite* horseman retains its name, but becomes a veteran unit that can produce leaders if promoted.

 

[Rdog]

You know what? That's probably what happened. Sorry to disseminate misinformation like that. He was most likely a knight at one time. In any event, I was very lucky.

 

[Svar]

The same unit can produce 3 great leaders if you start with a horseman. Once the horseman has produced his great leader simply wait until knights become available upgrade him then keep using him in safe situations until he is promoted to elite and has produced his second great leader. Again wait until cavalry becomes available upgrade him and repeat the knight scenario.

 

[a4phantom]

Good advice, thank you. I also don't think armies are worth their cost in the early game (although I'm told they're much stronger in Conquests) but that one Samurai or Cavalry army that enables Heroic Epic is also useful for taking that tough city.

 

[one_hoop]

army power underestimated
I'll only create one army until I have the Military Acadamy (and then pump them out as much as possible) but I think that the power of armies has been underestimated here. Even a knight-army (2MP) is powerful enough to be desirable. But you absolutely must have an army by cavalry.

If you are concerned about not being able to upgrade armies, the disband rate is 100 shields (50 shields for accelerated production). AI preferentially attacks anything but armies, so you can stack your elites on the army and place a stack of veterans next to them in a revolving door type arrangment.
Especially good for the knight class and musketeers.

M@

 

[AlcTrv]

Just wanted to point out (If i missed it, d'oh!) that MGLs can apparently no longer rush great wonders, only SGLs can. So...

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by AlcTrv
Just wanted to point out (If i missed it, d'oh!) that MGLs can apparently no longer rush great wonders, only SGLs can. So...

Yup, and despite that leaders are more important than ever in Conquests, if you go warmongering. The armies in Conquests are much more powerful than they were before, they are now highly desirable. I plan to update this article with Conquests info not too long from now...

 

[a4phantom]

"Yup, and despite that leaders are more important than ever in Conquests, if you go warmongering. The armies in Conquests are much more powerful than they were before, they are now highly desirable."

They certainly are! In PTW I used my first GL to build an army just so I could build heroic epic, and then used every leader after to rush a wonder. The slow healing of armies made them damn near worthless except as seigeweapons to crack open the toughest cities. But in Conquests they're great, with the healing fixed and the added movement and blitz. Sipahi armies are particularly spectacular - four moves, which can be four attacks. Legions of legionary armies in Rise of Rome are also nice, with up to 18 hit points, but you only get two attacks from three units.

 

[Pfeffersack]

There is a rumor that an existing SGL prevents generation of MGLs (would be a bug IMO, because it is no problem the other way around).It never happened to me yet, but I also didn't win many elite battles while having a SGL until now, because in most cases I use them immediately.Can anyone confirm this or the opposite?

 

[alexman]

It's not a rumor, it's true.

You cannot get a MGL if you already have any type of leader active. There is no other restriction.

I tested this a while ago.