Crime and Punishment

Birdjaguar

Birdjaguar

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I opened this thread for discussions of current trials or crimes that are in the news or should be in the news and that don't have their own thread.
 
There is a manhunt for parents of the Michigan high school shooting suspect, but two attorneys say they are not fleeing

(CNN)Hours after a prosecutor announced involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of Ethan Crumbley, the 15-year-old accused of killing four fellow students at a Michigan high school, authorities said the parents are missing.

But in another twist, two attorneys who say they are representing the couple released a statement that said the Crumbleys had left town for their safety and are returning for an arraignment.
"On Thursday night we contacted the Oakland County prosecutor to discuss this matter and to advise her that James and Jennifer Crumbley would be turning themselves in to be arraigned," the statement from attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman said. "Instead of communicating with us, the prosecutor held a press conference to announce charges." The statement added: "They are not fleeing from law enforcement despite recent comments in media reports."

The parents' arraignment had been scheduled for late Friday afternoon, but as of 5 p.m. the parents were still missing, according to the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.
Undersheriff Michael McCabe told CNN that a sergeant with the county's fugitive task force had spoken with one of the attorneys, who said she had not actually talked with the parents.
The undersheriff said he is confident the couple will be found and it's a "matter of when."
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The latest on the Michigan school shooting
Sheriff Michael Bouchard earlier told CNN that law enforcement had not talked with James and Jennifer Crumbley, but their attorney had told officials that if there were charges she would make arrangements for them to be arrested.
He said the attorney had attempted to reach the parents by phone and text without success.
When asked by CNN whether the parents are missing, Bouchard said, "correct."
"If they think they are going to get away, they are not," he said.


James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of accused Oxford High School shooter Ethan Crumbley.
The couple weren't under surveillance until "it got closer to last night" when charges were pending and detectives began the process of monitoring them, Bouchard said. There was no early surveillance on them before that because no charges were pending.
Every available resource is dedicated to locating them, the sheriff said, adding that people should not approach the couple. US Marshals and the FBI are involved in the search for the Crumbleys, according to Bouchard.
"The US Marshals Detroit Fugitive Apprehension Team is heading up the search," the agency said in a tweet.
The sheriff's office released a statement that said the Crumbleys might be driving a black 2021 Kia Seltos with the Michigan license plate number DQG 5203.


A photo of a black 2021 Kia Seltos like one the Crumbleys might be driving, according to authorities

Page Pate, a Georgia criminal defense attorney, cautioned that the parents might not be on the run. "I have been in this position before, representing someone who's just been charged with a crime," Pate told CNN. "They tend to panic, and when they panic, they do stupid stuff."
Pate said the parents might be looking for another lawyer, someone who will give them the answers they want to hear. "You're like, 'I don't want to be charged. I don't want to go to jail,' and you try to find someone else," he said.
CNN has tried several times to reach the parents' attorney, but she has not returned messages seeking comment.

In this rare instance of charging parents, prosecutors will try to prove that the parents of suspected shooter Ethan Crumbley were criminally negligent and contributed to a dangerous situation that resulted in the deaths of four teenagers Tuesday.
"It's been a devastating week for us," Oakland County District Attorney Karen McDonald said at a press conference. "There are other individuals who contributed ... and it's my intention to hold them accountable as well." Mother called pistol 'his new Christmas present' on social media, prosecutor says McDonald said James Crumbley bought the gun four days before it was used in the shooting. His son Ethan was with him and later posted on social media about the gun, calling it "my new beauty."
Jennifer Crumbley also posted about the gun on social media, calling it "his new Christmas present," McDonald said.

Those are among the chain of events that led up to the shooting, McDonald said. Bouchard said the boy could not legally own the gun or carry it to most places -- with rare exceptions such as shooting ranges. Ethan Crumbley has been charged as an adult with terrorism, murder and other counts in the rampage north of Detroit that also left seven people wounded. The shooting was the deadliest at a US K-12 campus since 2018 and the 32nd such attack since August 1.

Lt. Tim Willis, head of the special investigations unit at the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, said that officers were planning to arrest the parents.
Addressing reporters, McDonald said she was charging the parents in part to make a point about the responsibility of gun ownership, but that the facts of the case were egregious on their own.
"I'm angry as a mother. I'm angry as the prosecutor. I'm angry as a person that lives in this county," she said. "There were a lot of things that could have been so simple to prevent and, yes, there was a perfectly executed response, and he was apprehended immediately and we have great law enforcement and good training. But as I said before, four kids were murdered, and then seven more injured, so, yes, I think we should all be very angry."
Prosecutor outlines a chilling progression of events McDonald said a teacher saw Ethan Crumbley searching ammunition on his cell phone during class the day before the shooting and reported it to school officials. The school contacted Jennifer Crumbley via voicemail. Officials also sent an email but received no response from either parent, McDonald said. "Jennifer Crumbley exchanged text messages about the incident with her son on that day, stating, quote, 'LOL, I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.' End quote," McDonald said.




Oxford school shooting victim's brother: 'Never in my life will I feel this pain again'
The day of the shooting, a teacher found a note on Ethan Crumbley's desk that alarmed her so much she took a picture of it on her phone, McDonald said. The note included a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words, "The thoughts won't stop. Help me," she said. Another section was a drawing of a bullet with the words "Blood Everywhere" written above it. Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is one of a person who seems to have been shot twice and is bleeding, McDonald said.
"Below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji," McDonald said. Also found on the note, according to McDonald: "My life is useless" and "The world is dead."



Authorities look for motive with 15-year-old Michigan high school shooting suspect in custody. Here's what we know
James and Jennifer Crumbley were "immediately summoned to the school," McDonald said. A counselor met with the parents and the boy, who had altered the drawing by scratching out the drawings of the gun and bloody figure, along with the words, according to McDonald.
The parents were told to get their son into counseling within 48 hours, McDonald said. Neither parent asked their son to see the gun or "inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun which he had with him," according to McDonald.
The parents left school and the boy was sent back to class. When news broke about the shooting, according to McDonald, Jennifer Crumbley sent her son a text: "Ethan, don't do it." James Crumbley called 911 to report a gun was missing and his son might be the shooter.
McDonald said investigators found that the gun used in the shooting had been stored unlocked in a drawer in the couple's bedroom.
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Is the Pope wearing a scented candle on his head to mask the smell of sulphur?
popeetal.png
 
No, it's not a candle. That's what those little hats look like.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
Just because two people wear the same style of hat, it does not mean that the pope is wearing a candle on his head. :rolleyes:
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True. It's looking more likely that both are wearing scented candles on their heads. :hatsoff:
 
Zkribbler said:
I love Birdjaguar, but this thread is depressing me too much. :sad: See you elsewhere. :run:
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Yeah it's kinda like watching the local "breaking" news. :(
 
Michigan school shooting suspect’s parents held on $500,000 bond each as judge expresses flight-risk concerns
Acting on a tip, police found the pair hiding in a commercial building, authorities said
James and Jennifer Crumbley are shown during the video arraignment of their son, Ethan Crumbley, in Rochester Hills, Mich., on Dec. 1. (District Court/AP)
Today at 4:30 a.m. EST|Updated today at 12:23 p.m. EST

The parents of a 15-year-old boy accused of fatally shooting four classmates at a Michigan high school were ordered held Saturday on $500,000 bond each, hours after they were found hiding in a commercial building in Detroit and taken into custody.

Jennifer and James Crumbley each pleaded not guilty to four counts of involuntary manslaughter, appearing separately via webcam at a 35-minute virtual arraignment in which the prosecution and defense clashed over whether the parents had provided easy access to the weapon authorities say was used in the crime.

“This is a serious, horrible, terrible shooting, and this has affected the entire community,” Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said, adding that the likelihood of conviction is “strong.” “And these two individuals could have stopped it.”

The arraignment capped a stunning series of events in the aftermath of Tuesday’s shooting, which left Tate Myre, 16, Madisyn Baldwin, 17, Hana St. Juliana, 14, and Justin Shilling, 17, dead. Prosecutors allege that the parents bought the gun for their son, and that Jennifer Crumbley boasted on social media about taking her son to a shooting range to try it out. Authorities also say 15-year-old Ethan Crumbley’s parents left the gun unlocked and neglected to act on concerns expressed by school officials that he might act violently.

Hours after announcing that the pair was being charged — an extraordinarily rare move to hold parents accountable when a minor uses a weapon in a school shooting — police officials said that the couple had gone missing. They were located overnight in a commercial building after an extensive search involving police dogs, local law enforcement and the U.S. Marshals Service, authorities said.

Jennifer Crumbley fought back tears when asked by the judge if she understood that she faces the charges while her husband shook his head as McDonald recounted some of the accusations, including that the parents had provided “total access” to the weapon. Their defense attorneys, Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman, denied that allegation and said the pair had always planned to cooperate with the investigation.

“This case is absolutely the saddest, most tragic, worst case imaginable, there’s no doubt,” Smith said. “But our clients were absolutely going to turn themselves in.” Oakland County Judge Julie A. Nicholson agreed with the prosecution’s request for a $500,000 bond, stating that the couple could pose a flight risk, and ordering parents to hand over all weapons to sheriff’s office if they are released from jail. “Obviously, these charges are very, very serious, there is no question about that,” Nicholson said. “The court does have some concern about the flight risk along with the public safety, given the circumstances that occurred yesterday and the fact that the defendants did have to be apprehended in order to appear for purposes of arraignment.”

Jennifer and James Crumbley, the parents of the alleged Michigan high school school shooter, were held on $500,000 bond each on Dec. 4. (The Washington Post)
Ethan Crumbley faces multiple charges as an adult in the attack Tuesday at Oxford High School: one count of terrorism causing death, four counts of first-degree murder, seven counts of assault with intent to murder and 12 counts of possession of a firearm.

The shooting has torn apart the small Michigan community, located about 45 minutes outside Detroit, and reignited calls for tighter gun laws, with more states considering laws to punish parents if children fire unsecured guns. It appears to be the deadliest episode of on-campus violence in the United States in more than 18 months. Seven others were wounded.

Charging parents is unusual in a school shooting. A Washington Post review of 145 school shootings committed by children in the two decades after the Columbine High massacre in 1999 found that the weapon’s source had been publicly identified in 105 cases. In total, the guns those children used were taken from their own homes or those of relatives or friends 80 percent of the time.

However, in just four instances did the adult owners of the weapons face any criminal punishment for not having locked them up — and none of those prosecutions stemmed from negligent-storage laws. “While the shooter was the one who entered the high school and pulled the trigger, there were other individuals who contributed to the event,” McDonald said Friday as she announced the charges against the parents.

More than 278,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine

Jennifer and James Crumbley were located after a 911 call from a business owner who spotted the couple’s car in his parking lot in Detroit, Chief Deputy Mike McCabe of the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office. He added in an emailed statement that a female observed near the car fled on foot when he called 911. Detroit Police Chief James White said police found “video of one of the two fugitives entering the building” and that police had quickly “set up a perimeter” at the location.

The pair “did not break in” at the building but “were aided,” White said, adding that police were investigating one other person who may have helped the couple. He thanked the community, saying that “it was a tip that led us to this location” and that officers responded “in a matter of minutes,” arriving on scene at 10:30 p.m. local time Friday.

Law enforcement officers outside the building where James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of suspected Oxford High School shooter Ethan Crumbley, were arrested on Dec. 4 in Detroit. (Matthew Hatcher/Getty Images)
When asked about the pair’s emotional state as they were taken into custody, White said that they were “very distressed” and that one of them left the scene with head bowed. Attorneys for the Crumbleys had earlier said the couple left town the night of the shooting “for their own safety,” adding that they would return to be arraigned on the manslaughter charges. They repeated that at the arraignment Saturday, saying that the couple had planned to meet their attorneys outside the court at 7:30 a.m.

“We did not announce it because unlike prosecution we weren’t attempting to make this a media spectacle,” Smith said. But police and prosecutors disputed that account, with White telling reporters Saturday: “This isn’t indicative of turning themselves in, hiding in a warehouse.” The pistol, purchased by James Crumbley on Nov. 26, was stored in an unlocked drawer in the parents’ bedroom, according to officials. A day before the fatal shooting, a teacher noticed Ethan Crumbley using his cellphone to search for information on firearm ammunition. Jennifer Crumbley did not respond when the school contacted her via voice mail about her son’s “inappropriate” search, McDonald said. Instead, she exchanged a text message with her son that read, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

On the morning of the shooting, both parents were summoned to a meeting by school administrators after a teacher found a troubling note in their son’s desk, McDonald said. It contained a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”

The note included a drawing of a bullet with the words “blood everywhere.” There was also a drawing of a bloody figure with two gunshot wounds, McDonald said, and another drawing of a laugh emoji. Ethan altered the note, McDonald said, scratching out the most disturbing parts of it by the time the meeting with his parents began shortly after 10 a.m. on Nov. 30. McDonald said the teen brought his backpack to the counselor’s office for the meeting and noted that at no point did his parents ask about the recently purchased gun. McDonald said neither the Crumbleys nor school officials searched the teen’s backpack.

The Crumbleys “resisted the idea of their son leaving the school at that time,” McDonald said. Instead, Ethan returned to class with his backpack.

Karin Brulliard, Kim Bellware, John Woodrow Cox and Paulina Firozi contributed to this report.
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Lock them up.
 
Ferocitus said:
True. It's looking more likely that both are wearing scented candles on their heads. :hatsoff:
Click to expand...
Well, given that the clergy of any faith has never not worn funny hats (I include Pastafarians in this, as colanders are for food prep, not wearing on the head), and the Royal Family must have to sign an agreement to always wear funny hats*, it all balances out and gives the rest of us a reason to laugh.

*Actually, the Queen's hats have been rather nice in recent years, always the same basic non-ostentatious style, color-coordinated with her dress or coat.
 
The big case in the news here at least is the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. I just wonder what is going on with the morality of that whole family.

It is all a bit shocking, but that the defence has gone straight for victim blaming seems to say a lot.

The first of four Maxwell accusers to give evidence at the trial cried as she described being sexually abused by Epstein when she was 14.
The woman, using the pseudonym Jane, said Ms Maxwell showed her how Epstein liked to be massaged, and sometimes took part in their sexual encounters.

But on Wednesday, Ms Maxwell's defence sought to find inconsistencies in Jane's testimony. Defence lawyer Laura Menninger pointed out that Jane now worked as an actress.
"You are an actor who convincingly portrays someone else for a living," the lawyer stated. "You are able to cry on command."

On Thursday, Epstein's former housekeeper Juan Alessi recalled how Ms Maxwell had tightly controlled every detail in the financier's Florida mansion.
Ms Maxwell was the "lady of the house", ordering staff to speak only when spoken to and to avoid eye contact with Epstein, according to Mr Alessi, who said his job included cleaning their sex toys.

Wrapping up a week of testimony in New York, Ms Maxwell's legal team sought to undermine the credibility of Mr Alessi during cross-examination.
They challenged his recollection of meeting 14-year-old Jane in 1994, pointing to an earlier statement that he met her years later when she may have been of legal age.​
 
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