[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: Eight

[Birdjaguar]

Eight = 4 x 2:

• Two years
• Too Many Dead
• Too Much Misery
• Too Long

Welcome to our eighth thread on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

As we go forward we all recognize that both sides are in a propaganda war and accept that is ongoing. There is no need to get into arguments over which sources are propaganda or not. Each side may provide links to news and each thread participant can decide for themselves what is valuable to them. Proving or disproving what is propaganda is an endless circle game to be avoided.

We need to lower the levels of animosity towards all posters. None of us are leading or participating directly in the combat. Enough harm is being done on the battlefields and in the cities and we do not need to bring additional animosity here. Remember, our focus is on current news related to the war. It is not on pre invasion events, whataboutism, or anyone's personal desire to widen the conversation to include pet peeves and personal interests. We will thread ban those who cannot abide with civility or posting guidelines. These threads move fast enough that posts can be be quickly buried so don't feel the need to respond to every slight or disagreeable thought that is posted. Those too shall pass. Pontificating "truth" without sources is frowned upon. Don't stray in that direction, please.

Keep in mind that the Do not do list includes name calling, especially Nazi in any of of forms or derivatives; bickering over stupid stuff; stay away from racist stereotypes and calling folks orcs; bringing up old pre invasion news and whataboutism. Those will all be considered trolling and get you infracted or thread banned.

Repeated failure to follow the rules and be civil will get you thread banned.

What we want is for this thread to be a source of information for those of any persuasion and meaningful discussion. You are all a great source of both knowledge and information from all over the world. Contribute without rancor or anger.

Please do not copy or quote any posts from the previous thread into this one. Start fresh!

 

[EvaDK]

With the latest succesful Su34 hits, the Ukrainians have downed 12 fixed wing Russian military aircraft in just 12 days.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-sukhoi-34-war-plane-losses-1874591

That corresponds to roughly half of the annual combat aircraft production number from UAC (2022 production numbers), the manufacturing umbrella that produces Sukhoi aircraft for the Russian airforce. Six months worth of production to the Russian airforce lost in two weeks, if we ignore that the lost A-50 can't be replaced atm.

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

A couple of days old, but I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere else.
Interesting that he is talking peace, probably while trying to get some money to continue the war as well.

Zelensky seeks Saudi support for peace deal with Russia
Saudi's crown prince has been one of the few world leaders to also meet with the Russian president since the start of the Ukraine war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky landed in Saudi Arabia on 27 February for talks with Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman (MbS) regarding a possible peace deal with Russia.

"I had a meaningful and candid conversation with His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman," Zelensky said via social media. "We discussed the Peace Formula's points and the progress that can be made in implementing them. Saudi Arabia's leadership can assist in finding equitable solutions."

Zelensky seeks Saudi support for peace deal with Russia

Saudi's crown prince has been one of the few world leaders to also meet with the Russian president since the start of the Ukraine war

thecradle.co

 

[Birdjaguar]

Putin stirs the pot.

A breakaway region in Europe is asking Russia for protection. Here’s what to know​

Pro-Russian rebels in a separatist sliver of Moldova have asked President Vladimir Putin to protect their region from what they claim are threats from Moldova’s government.

Transnistria, which illegally split from Moldova as the Soviet Union crumbled, has remained firmly within the Kremlin’s orbit while Moldova, which borders Ukraine, is bidding to join the European Union.

In a special congress on Wednesday, politicians in Transnistria asked Moscow to guard it from “increasing pressure from Moldova,” and the Kremlin later said protecting its “compatriots” was a priority, Russian state media RIA Novosti reported.

While the congress initially sparked fears that Moscow could press ahead with its longstanding plan to destabilize Moldova’s increasingly pro-Western government, Moldova dismissed it as “propaganda.”

Here’s what you need to know.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/28/europe/transnistria-russia-protection-moldova-intl/index.html

 

[Lexicus]

How would Russia protect Transnistria? I understand Moldova probably doesn't have much of a military but isn't the unconquered part of Ukraine kind of in the way?

 

[Gedemon]

With the latest succesful Su34 hits, the Ukrainians have downed 12 fixed wing Russian military aircraft in just 12 days.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-sukhoi-34-war-plane-losses-1874591

That corresponds to roughly half of the annual combat aircraft production number from UAC (2022 production numbers), the manufacturing umbrella that produces Sukhoi aircraft for the Russian airforce. Six months worth of production to the Russian airforce lost in two weeks, if we ignore that the lost A-50 can't be replaced atm.

They really want to push on the offensive immediately while they have some advantages, else they would have pulled back their aviation, it's the only thing they were very careful with until now.

 

[Verbose]

How would Russia protect Transnistria? I understand Moldova probably doesn't have much of a military but isn't the unconquered part of Ukraine kind of in the way?

I'm gonna guess: By annexing it.

Putin styles himself as a "servant of the law" (some servant...) and has a weird Soviet fascination with legal protocol and the verbiage it comes with. He loves to dress crap up in it. So if Russia annexes Transnistria, as laid out in accordance with the Russian constitution and the letter of the law – then somehow he will be vey incensed if non-Russians do not take it seriously. He has already annexed various bits of Ukraine, both controlled and as yet uncontrolled. The end result is turning Russia into a state with unclear borders, and worse, a claimed territory over which is clearly does not exercise actual sovereignty.

Otoh Putin just now finished a major political program speech – all is good in Russia, everything is going to get massively improved for Russians in general, once he is elected – in accordance with a new 6 year plan – he spoke like if he was Brezhnev, including the claims of everything being good and about to get better, just unclear how (like the Brezhnev-era stagnation). Comments already in are pointing out it seems Putin's advisors told him to make a speech all about the future – but it still remains elusive after it.

He did, however, not mention Transnistria with a word.

 

[Crezth]

So what punishment for the CIA’s secret armies that have been stomping around Ukraine for ten years?

The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Fully armed with American personnel too. I guess it goes to show you can call any attack “unprovoked” if you just pretend provocation isn’t real.

 

[Gedemon]

So what punishment for the CIA’s secret armies that have been stomping around Ukraine for ten years?

The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Fully armed with American personnel too. I guess it goes to show you can call any attack “unprovoked” if you just pretend provocation isn’t real.

Those base were implemented following an invasion of Ukraine, and it wasn't just CIA, I'm pretty sure various military personnel from NATO countries were sent in Ukraine to train its troops.

It was also already known (and was confirmed by Scholz) that military personnel from UK and France are currently in Ukraine.

 

[Crezth]

So the war actually started back then. Not in 2022.

 

[Gedemon]

So the war actually started back then. Not in 2022.

I've read multiple testimonies of Ukrainian saying just that when other nations were talking of the war entering it's 3rd year: that it started in fact 10 years ago.

 

[Rambo919]

A couple of days old, but I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere else.
Interesting that he is talking peace, probably while trying to get some money to continue the war as well.

Zelensky seeks Saudi support for peace deal with Russia
Saudi's crown prince has been one of the few world leaders to also meet with the Russian president since the start of the Ukraine war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky landed in Saudi Arabia on 27 February for talks with Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman (MbS) regarding a possible peace deal with Russia.

"I had a meaningful and candid conversation with His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman," Zelensky said via social media. "We discussed the Peace Formula's points and the progress that can be made in implementing them. Saudi Arabia's leadership can assist in finding equitable solutions."

Zelensky seeks Saudi support for peace deal with Russia

Saudi's crown prince has been one of the few world leaders to also meet with the Russian president since the start of the Ukraine war

thecradle.co

He finally realized his masters are not footing the bill anymore?

 

[Rambo919]

I've read multiple testimonies of Ukrainian saying just that when other nation were talking of the war entering it's 3rd year: that it started in fact 10 years ago.

That's the thing.... no one wants to admit it's actually a civil war the same way Russia still refuses to admit it even is at war.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Please do not copy or quote any posts from the previous thread into this one. Start fresh!

Moderator Action: Did some of you not read the OP? No revisiting posts from the previous thread and no regurgitation of pre invasion events and commentary. Posts will be deleted.

 

[Gedemon]

In the competition between European leaders to know which one can embarrass the more his allies, Macron had taken a good start, but Olaf Scholz is really not far behind.

UK slams Scholz over claims Britain, France are helping Ukraine target missiles

German chancellor faces blowback after he said Paris and London are aiding in “target control.”

www.politico.eu

An inference by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz that British and French personnel are operating cruise missiles donated to Ukraine is “wrong, irresponsible and a slap in the face to allies,” the chair of the U.K. parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee Alicia Kearns said Thursday.

In the process, we've finally learned why Germany really don't want to send the Taurus missiles to Ukraine (they'll require German operators to set the targets), but I wonder how Spain and South Korea are operating their versions. It's also strange to say "that there will be no ground troops, no soldiers on Ukrainian soil sent there by European countries or NATO states" while implying some are already there the next day.

"Looks like Scholz cares as little (or even less) for his U.K. allies as he does for the French. Silver lining nonetheless: he's unwittingly helping to break the taboo on the presence of NATO-member forces in Ukraine," tweeted François Heisbourg, a senior adviser with the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.

Russia must be laughing at both of them while taking good notes on which nations have said "never" and which have said "maybe".

In other news:

Finland: Ukraine is free to strike Russian territory with weapons we provide

Helsinki also urged Germany to “seriously consider” sending long-range Taurus cruise missiles to help Kyiv.

www.politico.eu

Finland's Defense Minister Antti Häkkänen said his country has not set any restrictions on what Ukraine can do with the weapons it provides, Finnish broadcaster Yle reported on Thursday. Häkkänen added that blocks have been imposed mainly by countries which have provided Ukraine with long-range weapons systems.

“If necessary, Ukraine should also strike military targets on the Russian side. It is a completely legitimate defensive battle that Ukraine is waging. The U.N. Charter allows military targets to be attacked across land borders,” said Jukka Kopra, chair of the Finnish parliamentary defense committee.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Alexei Navalny: 'No hearse for body' as family prepares funeral​

With hours to go until Alexei Navalny's funeral, his team has said they continue to face difficulties in organising the farewell ceremony.

His spokeswoman Kira Yarmysh said they had been unable to find a hearse to drive the body to church.

"Unknown people are calling mortuaries and threatening them if they accept to take Alexei's body," Ms Yarmysh said.

The funeral is scheduled to take place on Friday in Maryino, on the outskirts of Moscow.

On Wednesday, the team announced the memorial service would be held at 14:00 Moscow time (11:00 GMT) at the Church of the Icon of Our Lady Quench My Sorrows.

The burial will then take place at the Borisovskoye Cemetery nearby at 16:00.

The funeral service will also be streamed online on Navalny's YouTube channel.

Navalny died on 16 February in a Russian prison inside the Arctic Circle. He had been jailed for three years on trumped-up charges.

His team - who have encouraged people to attend - shared a map of the route between the two locations.

They also shared a list of places abroad - from Seoul to Rome, Montreal and Stockholm - where people can join memorial services for Navalny.

It is unclear how many people will attend the funeral in Moscow on Friday.

In March 2015, thousands lined the streets to pay homage to slain opposition politician Boris Nemtsov, but it is unlikely any similar public outpouring of grief for an opponent of President Vladimir Putin would be allowed now.

In recent years, Russian authorities have cracked down on any action that could be interpreted as criticism of the government. Attempts at commemorating Navalny's death were met by a heavy-handed response, with makeshift monuments cleared and hundreds arrested.

Photos circulating on social media on Thursday afternoon showed a heavy police presence and barriers waiting to be installed near both the church where the memorial service will be held and at the cemetery where Navalny is due to be buried.

Telegram channel RusNews also said that surveillance cameras had been installed "on every streetlight" surrounding the cemetery.

First Department - a group of lawyers and human rights defenders - shared advice on social media for those planning to go to Navalny's funeral.

It warned about "pro-government activists" acting as provocateurs and urged people to remain vigilant: "Detentions cannot be ruled out after the ceremony... Stay under the radar of security forces - do not use public transport or apply for paperwork in the days after the funeral."

The advice also includes not carrying any objects bearing the photograph of Navalny or the symbol of his Anti-Corruption Foundation, which was declared an extremist organisation by Russian authorities.

It is not known which members of Navalny's family will be able to attend the funeral other than his mother, Lyudmila, who recently publicly accused the authorities of withholding her son's body.

Navalny's children Daria, 23, and Zakhar, 15, live abroad.

His widow, Yulia, is not thought to currently live in Russia, but might be at risk of being arrested if she returns due to her work with Navalny's team and her recent public declarations in which she blamed Russian President Vladimir Putin for her husband's death.

The authorities have reportedly tried to thwart Navalny's team's attempts to organise a public farewell ceremony for the opposition leader for days.

On Tuesday, Ms Yarmysh said Navalny's team were struggling to find somewhere to hold the ceremony. Some funeral homes had claimed they were fully booked, she said, while others told them they were "forbidden" from working with them.

Navalny's widow Yulia said in a speech on Wednesday that she didn't know if the funeral would be peaceful or if police would arrest those who came to say goodbye.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68435167

 

[Birdjaguar]

Putin is scared of him even as a dead man.

 

[red_elk]

With the latest succesful Su34 hits, the Ukrainians have downed 12 fixed wing Russian military aircraft in just 12 days.

There is a nuance though.

Newsweek could not independently verify Ukraine's figures

Meanwhile, Ukrainian combined losses exceeded 400k for the 2 years.

 

[red_elk]

Latest news:
Ukraine has been pushed back already by ~10 km from Avdeyevka. 2 out of 3 towns which were included in next "defense belt" declared by Ukraine already fallen, 3-rd is contested.

Ukraine attempted special forces landing on Tendra Spit island, using speed boats. Judging by published images, the operation ended in disaster, with 4 out of 5 boats destroyed, 20-25 commandos killed.

Ukrainian commandos killed during speedboat raid, Russia claims

Russia claimed on Thursday that a number of Ukrainian commandos had been killed in a failed special forces raid into occupied territory.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Crezth]

I've read multiple testimonies of Ukrainian saying just that when other nation were talking of the war entering its 3rd year: that it started in fact 10 years ago.

Indeed, which somewhat changes the tenor of complaints about “unprovoked” or “illegal” invasions. Actually those of us who realized Crimea wasn’t going to be reversed any time soon identified that this marked a severe departure from diplomatic options for both sides. In other words we put Ukraine on this track and we have done our damnedest to commit them to it for our own sake: control of Ukrainian resources.

At any rate Crimea was definitely only Ukrainian soil because authorities in the rest of Ukraine felt like they could help themselves. The Crimeans themselves back in 1991 didn’t want to join Ukraine. Whether that’s still true or was even as true as it was in 2014 won’t justify the annexation of Crimea let alone Ukrainian territory proper, but neither will it justify paramilitary struggles to gain control of a supposedly democratic society.

In America the conversation among the military circles was that this was happening because NATO moved first on Ukraine and the Russians remembered that we “promised not to do that.”