Police will always be bad because their purpose is to keep real estate values from falling, not to keep human beings safe.
Good luck with a society without police.
Also what a caricatural vision of what police is.

Not that I disagree with USA police being unbelievably abysmal and an aggregation of everything that could go wrong in a police force (and in fact being one of the major reasons I don't plan to visit USA again, in fact), but projecting all that on the concept of police itself is just absurdly exagerrated.
 
Good luck with a society without police.
Also what a caricatural vision of what police is.

Not that I disagree with USA police being unbelievably abysmal and an aggregation of everything that could go wrong in a police force (and in fact being one of the major reasons I don't plan to visit USA again, in fact), but projecting all that on the concept of police itself is just absurdly exagerrated.
Being anti cop was a big trend a few years back. Even girls on tinder has ACAB in their profiles, I'm embarrassed to say I still usually swiped right, I was pretty horny at the time

Not wanting to visit US due to corrupt cops is a bit extreme.
 

Mi'kmaw fishers say DFO officers left them to walk for hours at night after seizing boots, phones​

Protest held Tuesday; Trudeau calls reports 'very troubling'

Two Mi'kmaw elver fishermen say they were forced to walk in sock feet for hours along a rural Nova Scotia highway in the middle of the night last week after they were detained by federal fisheries officers who took their boots and phones before releasing them.

Blaise Sylliboy and Kevin Hartling, who assert they have a treaty right to fish for the lucrative baby eels despite this year's season being cancelled, were joined Tuesday morning by dozens of protesters outside the Department of Fisheries and Oceans building in Dartmouth, N.S.

"When we were walking, there's times I'm like, 'Man, if we stop, we're going to die,' because our feet were just soaked," said Hartling.

Protesters also gathered and drummed at a housing announcement in Dartmouth by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who said "these reports are very troubling" and there needed to be a "full investigation."

Last month, federal Fisheries Minister Diane Lebouthillier cancelled the spring fishery for elvers, citing the risk of violence and widespread unauthorized harvesting that have plagued it in recent years. Since early March, DFO has arrested at least 39 people for unauthorized elver fishing and seized vehicles, dozens of nets, and weapons.

One protester outside the DFO building spoke of "starlight tours," a term that emerged in Saskatchewan to describe law enforcement picking up Indigenous people in the winter and abandoning them in remote areas.

Chief Bob Gloade of Millbrook First Nation called the incident involving Sylliboy and Hartling "appalling" and "inhumane," and said DFO should fire the fisheries officers who were involved.

On Wednesday, DFO said it had launched an investigation into the allegations, and the fisheries minister intended to meet with Mi'kmaw chiefs.

Sylliboy said he, Hartling and several other people were fishing for elvers at night along a river in Shelburne County in southwest Nova Scotia when a vehicle raced up. He said he didn't know who it was, and began to run through the woods before realizing they were DFO officers.

Sylliboy, who is from Eskasoni First Nation in Cape Breton, said DFO later found him and he was detained. Hartling said he surrendered as soon as he learned they were DFO officers. Sylliboy said they were told their hip-wader boots and phones had to be seized for investigative purposes.

Sylliboy said he was put in a vehicle, but said he was in such pain from the handcuffs he agreed to be dropped off at a gas station at about 1 a.m. He said he tried to call his mother but couldn't get a hold of her. Without his phone, he said he couldn't remember other numbers to call.

"I told [the officer], like, 'Man, this is outrageous. You're leaving me with no shoes,'" Sylliboy said. "He said, 'You know the consequences. But I said, 'I know the consequences, but this is, like, outrageous on human rights.' And he was like, 'Yeah, sounds like your guys' problem.'"

Sylliboy said he and Hartling, who is from Membertou First Nation in Cape Breton, were told by the gas station clerk they couldn't stay there, so they began to walk in sock feet toward the community of Liverpool where they hoped to find a hotel room. They said they wrapped their feet in duct tape and plastic bags from the gas station.

They didn't want to knock on doors in the middle of the night, so kept walking. At one point, Sylliboy said Hartling spotted a donation bin and pulled out used clothes to put on his feet, which were becoming raw.

He said an EHS ambulance driver stopped at one point and allowed them to use his phone so Sylliboy could call his mother, but refused to pick them up. Sylliboy said they finally flagged down a truck whose driver agreed to take them to the town of Shelburne.

Protester Jake Maloney said the incident shows "how deep racism is. They couldn't get help anywhere, from any public servant, from any business, from anybody."

DFO saying little​

DFO confirmed it arrested and released two people for infractions under the Fisheries Act related to the elver fishery on March 26, but said it would not provide more details due to the investigation.

"It is standard practice for fishery officers to seize fishing gear related to the commission of alleged infractions, including hip waders, fyke nets and dip nets," a spokesperson said in an email.

CBC News has also reached out to EHS for comment.

"It's important that the laws against illegal fishing be enforced," Trudeau said. "But there are processes and protocols in place, and the way enforcement officers need to behave, that we need to make sure was properly followed."

Pickup truck seized​

RCMP said its officers had no contact with the two men that night, but did locate a vehicle associated with them after being asked by DFO to search for it. Police seized the pickup truck because it was being driven by a man with a suspended licence.

RCMP said officers later released it to another man, who was the owner and who had called police around 4:15 a.m. worried that Sylliboy and Hartling were lost.

Unauthorized fishing for elvers along Nova Scotia rivers has exploded in recent years as the price has skyrocketed, with the tiny eels selling for thousands of dollars a kilogram and being shipped live to Asia, where they are grown for food.

The decision to cancel the season has been heavily criticized by commercial fishermen, as well as by the Assembly of Nova Scotia Mi'kmaw Chiefs, which put forward its own proposal to DFO to manage the fishery.

Some Mi'kmaq have asserted they have a treaty right to fish for elvers, although the assembly of chiefs warned last month it did not have the resources to "support court cases" of those charged this year as DFO can justify the closure of a fishery by using "legitimate public safety and conservation concerns."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...ter-mikmaw-fishers-say-boots-seized-1.7161195
 
Probably we can agree that reducing police force where it's not needed and utilizing social workers in some situations rather than police is a good idea.
I think that's the idea behind most versions of "defund the police." It's the one I support, anyway. Incidentally, defunding the police would probably benefit the genuinely well-intentioned cops, too. Part of why I think we need a near-total reconstruction of law enforcement in this country is that our police officers are currently asked to do too much. The system we have isn't great for them, either. They shouldn't be a catch-all, "jack of all trades" type of organization. Under a dramatic reorganization, some people who are currently cops would be offered positions in social work, or traffic control, or mentoring programs, or other emergency services, depending on what they enjoy and what they're good at. I bet there are cops today who'd be great at running a halfway house and job-training program for ex-cons, and we know such programs dramatically reduce recidivism. Or maybe there's a cop who's a veteran who'd be great at overseeing people in a criminal court diversion program for veterans, but their town has no such program because the police department gets 5x the funding of social services and the court system, combined.

Just for one example, I'm looking at the City of Boston operating budget for FY24:
- Boston Police Dept: $405m
- Boston Center for Youth & Families: $30m
- Dept. of Youth Employment & Opportunity: $20.9m
- Office of Human Services: $13.4m
- Veterans' Services: $4.8m
- Dept. of Neighborhood Services: $4.1m
- Office of Police Accountability & Transparency: $1.5m
- the Human Rights Commission: $0.6m

For comparison's sake, the Boston Fire Dept budget is $278m. I'm not sure any roles filled by police officers could be taken over by firefighters, but there might be some police officers who'd leap at the chance to move over to firefighting or emergency medical services, if the budget was there. Boston's Fire Dept is already a Class-1, but that won't be the case for most places (out of 50,000 fire departments nationwide, fewer than 1,000 are Class-1). Not every town needs a Class-1 dept, but I imagine there are places where the budgets of the police & fire departments are askew.

I should also mention that BPD is just one of several police departments in the City of Boston. I can't find the actual number of police departments in the city, but just off top of my head, the Mass. State Police have jurisdiction over state roads and highways and Logan International Airport; the Boston Housing Authority has its own police department; the Mass. Bay Transportation Authority (city buses & subways) has its own police department; Boston University and Northeastern University have their own police departments (and not just security guards, iirc - police; other colleges and universities all have their own private security, and maybe some of those may also be genuine police departments). Those are just the ones I can think of. I can't remember, for example, whether the guards at City Hall, the State House, and the court buildings are police or 'just' security guards. I'm also not sure if officers with the Dept of Corrections are technically police or not, but either way, we could probably count them, too.

Incidents like the shooting of the kidnapped girl and the officers in Texas who refused to enter the school make me reconsider how much armed police are really useful, even in the hypothetical conditions where we might think armed police would be useful. I don't know yet if I subscribe to the idea that police are never useful, but I do think there are places where entire departments should just be torn down and rebuilt from scratch, if not replaced with something else. (Public housing blocks need their own, special police department? Really?)
 
Honestly we could do worse than to fire every cop in the country and not rehire any person formerly employed by any police department unless they were fired or driven out in retaliation for whistleblowing.
 
Honestly we could do worse than to fire every cop in the country and not rehire any person formerly employed by any police department unless they were fired or driven out in retaliation for whistleblowing.
What a smart idea! And let's empty all the jails too and give them your home address so they can give you a special thank you.
 
What a smart idea! And let's empty all the jails too and give them your home address so they can give you a special thank you.

I'm more afraid of uniformed police officers than of people in jails tbh

But yeah let them know my address, I will give them government subsidized iPhones and crack provided by the Obama Foundation
 
I'm more afraid of uniformed police officers than of people in jails tbh
Why would you be afraid of anyone in jail? They're in jail. The point is if you support the wholesale dissolution of the criminal justice system they're no longer in jail. Then you just have gangs and vigilantes.

You noted in another thread that most US cities are actually pretty safe. That's because in other places the cops are much more corrupt or they just don't gaf at all.

Anyway I don't think the police aren't gonna bother you, have you even had any interactions with them? Because the way you speak makes me think your information is mostly second hand.

But yeah let them know my address, I will give them government subsidized iPhones and crack provided by the Obama Foundation
You talk in weird memes like I'm some right winger. Try to actually think thru your positions instead of strawmanning and responding to someone who's not there.
 
You talk in weird memes like I'm some right winger. Try to actually think thru your positions instead of strawmanning and responding to someone who's not there.
He says, a handful of posts after "joking" (I'm sure) about aiming people in jail at a CFCer's house.
 
Being anti cop was a big trend a few years back. Even girls on tinder has ACAB in their profiles, I'm embarrassed to say I still usually swiped right, I was pretty horny at the time

Not wanting to visit US due to corrupt cops is a bit extreme.
I'm a bit extreme when it comes to my safety and comfort, especially if it's about leisure time :p
I still have Norway, Scotland and New Zealand in my "to-visit" list, and probably a second trip to Japan if I can drag my gf with me. USA doesn't cut it anymore ^^
 
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