Dale's Religious Units Border Control 1.0

[Dale]

Dale submitted a new resource:

Dale's Religious Units Border Control



Tired of the missionary/apostle carpet the AI loves to invade your lands with? Annoyed that there is no way to control religious flow across your borders? Then we have the answer for you!

Click Download NOW and enact Religious Border Controls!

Give your border protection agency the powers it needs to stop religious units at your borders. 100% guarantee! And when you're ready to let them in, simply get an Open Borders agreement with the religion's owner.

* Stop missionary and apostle free entry to foreign lands.
* Missionary and Apostle require Open Borders to enter foreign lands.


Read more about this resource...

 

[Kabba QuzAi]

This was bound to happen!

Very requested mod! Thanks for doing it and sharing! ~

 

[Baleur]

Very very interesting (and realistic). But is this permanently always on?
I would honestly prefer a version where it is a policy (perhaps in the Military slot, i was thinking Wildcard but then again you dont wanna nerf peoples ability to get GPPs)
I just feel it should be something actively enacted / invested in by the player, not an automatic nerf to religion spread against all other states.
Then again............... Open borders agreements arent that hard to come by... So perhaps thats enough.

 

[Littlebob86]

So how can a civ do a religious victory with this mod ? Can they still come through against your will and give you a reason for Cassius belle?

 

[Dale]

Very very interesting (and realistic). But is this permanently always on?
I would honestly prefer a version where it is a policy (perhaps in the Military slot, i was thinking Wildcard but then again you dont wanna nerf peoples ability to get GPPs)
I just feel it should be something actively enacted / invested in by the player, not an automatic nerf to religion spread against all other states.
Then again............... Open borders agreements arent that hard to come by... So perhaps thats enough.

Yes it's always on. The only way to "turn it off" so to speak, is via open borders agreement.

So how can a civ do a religious victory with this mod ? Can they still come through against your will and give you a reason for Cassius belle?

You get open borders and invade with your apostles. As said above, it's not hard to get open borders. Some just ask for more, or demand it through peace agreements.

 

[SBA]

This + great wall at your borders. Make Sumeria great again In my recent run, england create city which completely block access to my other. And Egypt also. This will teach them.

 

[mwanafalsafa]

Great mod to make the game more playable for the moment, but doesn't this really mess with the balance/difficulty of the game depending on your play style and what civs the AI rolls? If I decide to not bother with religion, I can just refuse open borders to the religious civs and badly screw them while I go for some other victory condition.

I think something more complex/nuanced will eventually have to be done - either by modders or by Firaxis - to deal with this issue.

 

[Dale]

Maybe a different solution is a civic policy.

 

[Agent327]

Great mod to make the game more playable for the moment, but doesn't this really mess with the balance/difficulty of the game depending on your play style and what civs the AI rolls? If I decide to not bother with religion, I can just refuse open borders to the religious civs and badly screw them while I go for some other victory condition.

I think something more complex/nuanced will eventually have to be done - either by modders or by Firaxis - to deal with this issue.

Well, one can always hope. But the issue with religious units isn't just conversion. They also can simply scout your entire territory without players having any influence on it. That is just bad game design.

So for now, this is a rather perfect solution.

 

[Baleur]

Well, one can always hope. But the issue with religious units isn't just conversion. They also can simply scout your entire territory without players having any influence on it. That is just bad game design.

So for now, this is a rather perfect solution.

Oh man thats true, didnt think about that. Of course missionaries have vision range as well.
Definetly downloading this mod now. That kinda makes it essential imo, just the realization that missionaries essentially can act as scouts who "break" borders.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Well, one can always hope. But the issue with religious units isn't just conversion.

Of course missionaries have vision range as well.

And what do you think the AI can do with vision of your territory

• I doubt it can analyze wonders being built based on their tile model (when i say i doubt, it's about the same amount of doubt as the Civ6 AI being able to remotely take control of your toaster and start a fire to punish you from nuking it's cities)
  
• It won't look for how many units you have, it already knows this
• See where you have cities in order to invade? If it's in Religious spam mode, it's probably not in warmonger mode. Even then, knowing where your inner cities are will do it no good because if it tries to get past your border cities rather than capture them, it's attack will only be worse.

The AI has absolutely no use for religious scouting. Only the player has. This is a non-issue.

I agree there should be some way to keep religious units out, but it should come with some isolationist policy and some cost (like the anti-spy policy that reduces amenities). Unfortunately this would be much harder to mod, maybe even requiring code changes so in the meantime, this mod might be a solution, but i would suggest disabling Religious Victory if you use it, so at least the AI won't try to pursue an impossible goal as it haven't been designed to consider open borders when assessing the availability of Religious Victory.

 

[SBA]

Well i think we can agree, that having enemy religion units blocking your movement or building placement INSIDE of your city is pretty silly. This is reason itself, why you should use this mod. Screw religion, if mechanic like this exist.

 

[Kabba QuzAi]

I've enjoyed this mod idea since the beginning , but I did not use it yet because I just thought it was such a overpowered mod that would completely change the game mechanic. And I'm still to new to the game to want that.

Maybe having that with a penality would ease my feelings

Like Baleur first suggest having this feature being a diplomatic card for the government would be awesome. And having to choose it was a policy in my opinion is penality enough

 

[Littlebob86]

I posted this elsewhere, but any chance you could find a way that other civs, who you are not at war with, that you can move combat and non cambat units onto the same tile, as if they were your own??

So I had to games, one I was religious, the other I was war, and i kept getting screwed over by the mass units of the other kind that were in my way and I couldn't move into their hexes!!

 

[Animist7]

Hmm, cool idea and it's great that it works for some people but personally I think it's just a little too easy to keep your borders closed and thus too easy to shut down a win condition. Even if it is a policy card, it's pretty much akin to a policy card that bans your tourists from visiting other countries or a policy card that makes your capital impervious to capture. Either way it's a one-sided deselction of victory conditions.

Personally I thought Civ V had an interesting approach with attrition where, if a religious unit is in another civ's territory with closed borders, that unit's religious strength is reduced x amount per turn until it basically can't spread religion or it dies (I can't remember which). So you might be able to have apostles with still-decent strength converting outlier cities but they'll be useless or dead by the time they get to cities in the middle of an empire. This also adds an interesting layer to how you lay your cities out around your capital.

In other words, the AI, and you, can still send religious units into other civ's territories but they won't last very long without open borders.

I don't know if Civ V's attrition mechanic can be modded into Civ VI but I thought I'd just throw it out there as a suggstion.

 

[SBA]

Hmm, cool idea and it's great that it works for some people but personally I think it's just a little too easy to keep your borders closed and thus too easy to shut down a win condition. Even if it is a policy card, it's pretty much akin to a policy card that bans your tourists from visiting other countries or a policy card that makes your capital impervious to capture. Either way it's a one-sided deselction of victory conditions.

Personally I thought Civ V had an interesting approach with attrition where, if a religious unit is in another civ's territory with closed borders, that unit's religious strength is reduced x amount per turn until it basically can't spread religion or it dies (I can't remember which). So you might be able to have apostles with still-decent strength converting outlier cities but they'll be useless or dead by the time they get to cities in the middle of an empire. This also adds an interesting layer to how you lay your cities out around your capital.

In other words, the AI, and you, can still send religious units into other civ's territories but they won't last very long without open borders.

I don't know if Civ V's attrition mechanic can be modded into Civ VI but I thought I'd just throw it out there as a suggstion.

Well this shouldn't be hard. Major advantage is, that Civ is turn based game, so i think mod something like "damage each turn-based on stat (in this case religion power)" should be easy. Maybe something based on contamination? When you nuke someone, there is radius, where each turn unit will take damage. The closer you are to epicenter, the more damage you get. (at least i think, but it could be moded easily). Transform this in to religion,city and tiles. The stronger religion, the more damage you deal and vice versa.

 

[CrazyAce]

With a current existing save game, I cannot see this mod working. Starting a new game to see if that was the case.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Well i think we can agree, that having enemy religion units blocking your movement or building placement INSIDE of your city is pretty silly.

Yes, to this i totally agree. I also agree with Animist7 that blocking religious units is an issue because of Religious Victory. If religion was just a tool like it was in Civ5, this wouldn't be an issue.

Personally I thought Civ V had an interesting approach with attrition

An attrition system might actually be worse because the AI wouldn't take this into account (it's not a core mechanism) so they would just send apostle to their death inside your borders. Whether they take actual damage or have their religious strength reduced, they would quickly become very easy to kill for your own apostles. This would reinforce your religion and weaken theirs while also wasting faith.

A much better approach to the map overcrowding would be to have religious units occupy a dedicated layer, similar to support units, and allow units from different civilizations to share a tile if they occupy different layers (civilians can already move through foreign military units, but can't stop there). Unfortunately, i seriously doubt we can do this without heavy code changes, so either Firaxis will have to do it, or we must wait for the c++ sources to be released, which might be as early as when the SDK is finally available, or as late as never

 

[Horem]

@ Dale - - Would you mind if I include this mod in a Modpack? Full credits will be given.

 

[Littlebob86]

A much better approach to the map overcrowding would be to have religious units occupy a dedicated layer, similar to support units, and allow units from different civilizations to share a tile if they occupy different layers (civilians can already move through foreign military units, but can't stop there).

So I've yet to find out why , but this mod allowed that !

http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/multiple-units-per-tile.603861/#post-14547775