Deities on Earth

[vadalaz]

I think we should just go for a science victory now. It doesn't look like we're going to get enough artifacts and Brazil has proposed International Games. We can try to downvote it and send diplomats to buy votes for WF/against IG, but the AIs will probably ask for ridiculous prices and with 21 AIs in the game I think it's going to get passed regardless (and if not, Pedro's just going to propose it again). It's way too early for IG, we aren't ready.

 

[beetle]

That is a shame about Valetta. They were about to start gifting their UU (more FLeas)!

I think it is safe to convert the GA to GW and theme Sistine. We will get at least one more GA in the Modern Era, so then the three could move to theme Uffizi.

Does an early IG really make CV too hard? I don’t try CV enough to know. But I hate it when WF and IG come up on the same WC cycle.

SV would be so much more straightforward, especially for our first succession game.

 

[raider980]

It doesn't look like we're going to get enough artifacts

Should I have not built Landmarks and gotten artifacts instead? Or not built anything except Archeologists? Is it standard CV procedure to build as many Archeologists and delay the culture buildings? That's probably where I get tripped up whenever I have (rarely) tried for CV, the Archeologists are cost so many hammers compared to other things that I hate building them.

 

[beetle]

I am sure Landmarks are better than artifacts, but there were only the three. @Shark Diver wrote that we would need around 20 Archeologist, but I thought he was kidding! With my own CVs, I usually only have four or six artifacts. I think we still have time for that many.

 

[Nizef]

I am sure Landmarks are better than artifacts, but there were only the three. @Shark Diver wrote that we would need around 20 Archeologist, but I thought he was kidding! With my own CVs, I usually only have four or six artifacts. I think we still have time for that many.

He was not kidding. Museums in six cities = 12 plus 2 slots in Louvre is a minimum of 14. With both Uffizi and Louvre it is unlikely that we could fill the slots in the Hermitage with GAs so that is probably 2-3 more. I usually only build landmarks after having filled all the available slots.

 

[Nizef]

What was this landmark business is Shaka´s territory?

 

[Nizef]

Here we go:
t191 Started on very late culture buildings in a couple of cities. Never ever built Broadway before Eiffel but I guess there is a first time for everything. Probably will have to skip Eiffel now or use a GE.
t192 Shoshone went Order. We will have the minority ideology, so I think it is reasonable to boost our culture further even if I agree with @vadalaz that SV is our best shot.
t193 Morocco conquer a city from Monty. Monty and Attila make peace with Brazil.
t194 Harun makes peace with both Rome and Sweden. Building several Archeologists. Picked Humanism as SP.
t195 Bought overpriced Cloves from Gajah for WLTKD in Adwa, Harar and Lalibela.
t196 Faith bought a GE. Pocatello built Brandenburg.
t197 About a million peace deals all over the world. How sad! Shaka went Order and Genghis Authocracy. Paid 6 gpt for Shaka to attack Brazil. Our gpt falls from 600 to 200.
t198 Used the GE for SoL and we got it. Free Thought as the free SP. Popped a GS for Plastics. Bought Research lab in AA. Our science is up to 876 bpt. Nobody else in Modern so I will try to postpone Eiffel and hope Shark/vadalaz will snipe it with the natural GE in 6 turns.
t199 Axum built Temple so it is now possible to construct GT.
t200 Not much to report.

Our RA with Shaka finished and we got Refridgeration. There are two CS quests for Oil and I have a WB ready on our coastal Oil tile. Harar will grow in 6 turns and if the tile is still available, it will grow to the desert Oil in the fourth ring. There are four Archeologists on their way (the one in Khangela is waiting for the Worker to move) and one digging in Gandhis territory. There are still many AS left. Harar has one and Gondar two turns left before all Operas are finished and it will be possible to construct the Hermitage.

 

[Nizef]

Should I have not built Landmarks and gotten artifacts instead? Or not built anything except Archeologists? Is it standard CV procedure to build as many Archeologists and delay the culture buildings? That's probably where I get tripped up whenever I have (rarely) tried for CV, the Archeologists are cost so many hammers compared to other things that I hate building them.

I aim to have all culture buildings built before I crank out Archeologists (around t170-t180) but sometimes they have to be built at the same time. All buildings and most Archeologists have usually been built by t200-t210. The trick is to prioritize culture buildings and Archeologists above most other things.

 

[raider980]

What was this landmark business is Shaka´s territory?

Shaka was very happy about it. He promised not to destroy our puny empire for at least 30 more turns.

 

[vadalaz]

T201:

• 85% coup in Sydney is successful. I gift them another 500 gold to secure the alliance. They'll give us Pearls for a WLTKD in the capital. Spy to Vancouver. I'll try to stage a coup there before connecting Oil with the workboat
• Cancel chopping jungles and start building trading posts instead. I think we can win WF without sacrificing jungle science
• Signed RAs with Gandhi and Gustav. Victory is more than 30 turns away and we can use the extra beakers
• Turn our GMu into a great work of music, start working Musicians' Guild for more GMus to theme Broadway
• Production: Stock Exhange in the capital, Banks everywhere else
• Bought a lab in Axum
• Bribe-DoW the Inca, Mongolia, the Huns, Japan. DoW Maya, Indonesia, Songhai. Pillaged an Indonesian cargo ship for 200 gold.

Interim: Peace deals and denouncements between AIs, WLTKD in AA, a GS spawns.

T202-203:

• Finished Fertilizer, beelining Railroad, not much else to report

T204:

• Food caravan to Lalibela ends so Lalibela hasn't grown like it should've. I hate this so much. Renewed the caravan
• Purchased a lab in Lalibela
• Dug out an artifact, themed a museum

Interim: Brazil went Freedom

T205:

• Bank finished in Adwa
• 79% coup in Vancouver is successful. I improve the Oil now. Spy to Cahokia.
• Sold Amphitheater in Axum and Adwa. Rebuilding it to set up production overflow for World's Fair.

Interim: Brazil buys back Vancouver. I didn't have 500 gold last turn to secure it. We re-ally Vancouver with the Oil quest. Scout dies to a Galleass in the Pacific.

T206:

• 500 gold to Vancouver.
• Finished Bank, sold Amphitheater in Lalibela
• Finished Stock Exchange in AA, started Caravan
• Dug out another artifact. The Zulu worker has been trolling us the entire time by the way - he's just switching between putting a farm and a mine on that hill. Choose one already!

T207: Peace deal time.

• 162g + 108 gpt from Pacal
• 476g + 80 gpt from Askia
• 394g + 27 gpt + Citrus from Pachacuti
• all of Indonesian unique luxuries from Gajah
• 107 gpt from Attila
• 3069g from Genghis to buy labs
• Osaka from Oda. It's a good city - 19 pop, Whales and Crabs, 5 Great Works, Forbidden Palace, Parthenon and a Public School. We can either sell the city to Genghis or keep it. I'd keep it for stronger endgame bulbs.
• Bought all missing labs
• Sold Stele in the capital, will rebuild for overflow
• GMu spawned, turned into a great work
• Themed Louvre and Sistine with the Japanese great works. We're up to 44 tourism, 165 culture and 27 happiness and that's without Universal Suffrage or Bank happiness. I don't think we'll need Eiffel after all.
• Started Windmills in some cities, we need all the specialist buildings

Interim: Gustav asks me to denounce Songhai, I do it to keep the DoF with Sweden

T208:

• Bought Stock Exchange in Lalibela
• This Zulu worker, man. He finished a farm last turn, now he's constructing a mine on the same tile. Our archeologist can finally go around him though.

T209:

• 77% coup in Cahokia is successful. Not moving the spy yet, rigging election in 1 turn
• Second Congress of Addis Ababa. I commit 10 votes for World's Fair.
• Set up overflow from culture buildings, maximized production and started a Golden Age with one of our Artists
• We're 6th in Manufactured Goods at 401 hammers and we'll get a ton of overflow towards WF if it passes. Pretty sure we're behind Rome, Huns, Mongolia, Shoshone and Aztecs or Brazil. Bribed Monty to attack Pocatello and Pedro for... 4 Horses and 3 gpt. Others are already at war.

T210:

• World's Fair passes.
• International Games fails. That's unexpected. I propose it again because it pleases like half the AIs on the map.
• I take culture from great works in Freedom as our next SP. With 30 current happiness and Universal Suffrage coming up, I figured we wouldn't need any extra happiness from banks or national wonders.
• Some cities grew, locked some more production tiles and we're 5th in manufactured goods with 436 hammers now, Attila's first with 595 but he's at war with 15 other AIs.
• Lhasa wants PoP, I give it to them and to Buenos Aires too. We'll want to befriend Buenos Aires when World's Fair goes online. edit: turns out I forgot to PtP Lhasa, oops
  
• Bought Stock Exchange in Adwa

Interim: DoF with India ended. I wonder if Gandhi's willing to renew it. We've put 888 hammers towards World's Fair already.

 

[beetle]

T211

• Siam and Zulu sign DOF, seems surprising
• I pay Shaka 23 gpt to DOW Ramkhamhaeng, so one more backstab for him
• Gandhi will not renew DOF
• Railroad researched, start on Flight
• gift Cahokia an unpromoted XB for 10 influence
• move unpromoted spy to Lalibela and good Spy to Wittenberg

T212

• Attila and Gandhi denounces us
• bunch of denouncements and DOFs, but none that seemed worth noting
• Chemistry stolen from Addis Ababa (despite our counter-spy)
• GE born, which I use to bulb Eiffel Tower
• GW born, I will wait for laster turn of GA
• we have another artifact; now we need anther Museum

T213

• America adopts Order
• bunch of AIs ask for Dyes, but all offering only 3gpt, so I decline
• DoF w/ Sweden expires and he will not renew
• upgrade Musket to UU
• purchase Caravan in Addis Ababa
• buy Pagodas in Gondar, that is the last one

T214

• renew OB w/ Gustavus
• GA born, so that is two on deck and we only need one more to theme Uffizi
• send Caravan to Ulundi
• beline Radar

T215

• We win WF by over 1.2K hammers!
• adopt Universal Suffrage
• upgrade our Level 4 XB
• Addis Ababa starts on Broadcast Tower
• workers start on railroad network as they come off current builds

T216

• Stockholm falls but is recaptured; I doubt Gustavus will be able to keep it
• burn GW for Media Culture
• cities do 1-turn builds on Barracks (to unlock Heroic Epic) and then start on museums
• give Ramkhamhaeng his crazy asking price for gold, to trigger WLtKD in four cities

T217

• Maya adopts Order
• Gustavus denounces us, so that is too bad
• peace breaks out everywhere, but denouncements are flying
• Samarkand is impressed with our Culture and is now our ally
• Singapore had a Gold quest, and now they are our ally
• GS born
• Lhasa asking for PoP, so I give it then spend 1500 gold to ally them
• Cahokia still has unit quest up, so I gift an unpromoted pike
• DOW Siam to cancel bad trade deal; despite offering 500gpt, I cannot get him to DOW anyone
• trade Genghis a spare Spice to DoW Ramkhamhaeng
• bribe Attila to DoW Catherine and Ramkhamhaeng for our two spare Coal and 12gpt
• Montezuma wants too much to DoW Ramkhamhaeng, but I bribe him 14gpt to DOW Pachacuit and Pacal
• Askia and Shaka were on one of those peace deals; bribe Askia to DOW Harun for 4gpt
• bribe Shaka 12gpt to DoW Ahmad
• gift Gajah our spare Cotton
• dig up another artifact, and it matches our other spare

T218

• more DoFs and denouncements
• peace treaties expire
• Archeology stolen from Addis Ababa
• adopt Fine Arts (excess happy goes to culture)

T219

• bulb Electronics and Radar, enter Atomic Era
• assign Spys as Diplomats to Ulundi, Attila’s Court, and Karakorum

T220

• still more DoFs and denouncements
• Combustion researched, upgrade boats
• set beeline to Telecommunications and bulb rest of GS, Ecology in three turns
• we have have four Uranium plots revealed; worker starts to mine one of them
• Axum borders expand to get an Oil
• Addis Ababa start on Hotel
• dig up artifact from Eziqwaqweni
• we have 14 votes for WC host, all others are 3 or 4

T221 Interstitial, I tell Shaka we will not dig up more of his artifacts.

• I had assumed we had already themed Broadway, as I almost always have 2 GMu before Broadway. Sorry for not watching that more closely, but I am not sure what I could have done. It did not occur to me that we might have trouble get ing 3 GMu during the Modern Era.
• Where should diplomats go? I made my best guess.
• What are we doing with our gold? Should we proactively upgrade UU or FLeas?
• Looks like I forgot to note where I sent TR. Jakarta and Gao I think.
• @raider980 you are up! I think you should send the two Knights to guard our dig sites in Osaka. I wish that had occurred to me on my first turn instead of my last. There are Pikes guarding dig sites in Zululand and on the island off Australia.
• I forgot to sell the Coal after upgrading the Ironclads.
• We have an unimproved Cotten that would be easy to sell.
• You should be able to theme Uffizi soon.
• Yes, I did new rails N of AA instead of going over the exiting roads. I couldn’t take looking at the ugly intersections any more!

 

[raider980]

We're rolling along now!

Thoughts before I play.

• I'm guessing a CV is back on the table since International Games failed last time?
  • That's why the Diplomats?
  • And why we're beelining Telecommunications for Nat. Vis. Ctr.
  • We have the SV in the bag. No other Civ is close to us in Science. So why not try for CV (unless we want to finish quickly and start another game).
  • In that case I should trade OB with Brazil since they have Freedom.

 

[beetle]

We have the SV in the bag. No other Civ is close to us in Science. So why not try for CV (unless we want to finish quickly and start another game)?

That was my thinking. See if we win IG, then re-assess. I think the hate from the most recent DoWs will dissipate pretty quick. Again, that was so last era! That will let us get OB (mutual, please). But with large maps not getting proportionally more TRs and Diplomats, CV is all the harder!

 

[raider980]

I'm playing T223 currently. This is my plan so unless I hear otherwise this is what I'll do:

• 14 turns until WC vote for IG.
• Not sure how long after IG passes that it will be built, 3,4,5 turns, more?
• Ecology just finished, 8 turns until Telecommunications.
• Have 1 GS.

So I will:

• Bulb the GS for Telecommunications next turn (probably next turn).
• Start Hermitage in Addis, 4 turns until done.
• A Hotel is building in Adwa that will take 5 turns.
• Buy 3 Hotels in cities that will take too long to build them so that
  • I can start NVC in Addis in 5 turns, I'm assuming it will take 8 turns. That's 5 + 8 = 13 so it'll be done at or before the WC vote.
  • By that time I can buy Airport in Addis (and maybe other places?).
• Bulb the Artists once in Info.

IG status:

• We have 14 delegates.
• We think 1 Civ with 4 delegates will vote for IG.
• That leaves Civs controlling 59 delegates.
• So it could fail.
• Harun proposed Scholars in Residence so hopefully some Civs will vote against that, I think they usually do.

Edit. You know, not sure I need to bulb Telecommunications. It will surely take at least 3 turns to build IG. So I could start NVC when Telecommunications finishes in 8 turns + 8 turns to build NVC = 16 turns so that will still be done before the IG is ready right?

 

[Nizef]

I'm playing T223 currently. This is my plan so unless I hear otherwise this is what I'll do:

• 14 turns until WC vote for IG.
• Not sure how long after IG passes that it will be built, 3,4,5 turns, more?
• Ecology just finished, 8 turns until Telecommunications.
• Have 1 GS.

So I will:

• Bulb the GS for Telecommunications next turn (probably next turn).
• Start Hermitage in Addis, 4 turns until done.
• A Hotel is building in Adwa that will take 5 turns.
• Buy 3 Hotels in cities that will take too long to build them so that
  • I can start NVC in Addis in 5 turns, I'm assuming it will take 8 turns. That's 5 + 8 = 13 so it'll be done at or before the WC vote.
  • By that time I can buy Airport in Addis (and maybe other places?).
• Bulb the Artists once in Info.

IG status:

• We have 14 delegates.
• We think 1 Civ with 4 delegates will vote for IG.
• That leaves Civs controlling 59 delegates.
• So it could fail.
• Harun proposed Scholars in Residence so hopefully some Civs will vote against that, I think they usually do.

Edit. You know, not sure I need to bulb Telecommunications. It will surely take at least 3 turns to build IG. So I could start NVC when Telecommunications finishes in 8 turns + 8 turns to build NVC = 16 turns so that will still be done before the IG is ready right?

You will get to pick a SP. I think Flourishing of the Arts is the logical choice here. Together with the Golden Age, it will boost our culture output with something like 200-250 cpt.

 

[vadalaz]

Right side of Rationalism to me implied a change of course to a SV. If we're going for a CV again, I think we need to start thinking about killing the culture leaders.

 

[raider980]

Well, I'm not going to be able to continue the game right now. This is my second video card Civ 5 has fried. When I first got the game back when it came out, it fried the one I had then. I didn't get to play last night so I fired Civ up this morning to play and when I next turned, crash. And now the computer won't even boot with the video card in. Boots fine off the motherboard integrated video so I'll need to go out and get a new card. But that will take a few days so you all go ahead and skip me. If the game is still going on when I get my new card I'll join back up.

Regarding SV or CV, I didn't even notice we had gone into right side Rationalism lol. I checked everything when I started this session... except that. I would have liked to try for a CV but if it was going to involve long drawn out wars, then maybe not. I think Siam and Rome are the culture leaders. Siam wouldn't be too hard to take but Rome is a different story, he's got cities everywhere. But since I didn't even do my plan, you all can decide a path forward.

 

[Nizef]

Right side of Rationalism to me implied a change of course to a SV. If we're going for a CV again, I think we need to start thinking about killing the culture leaders.

I am fine with either path. But I do agree that the SP picks should reflect our desired path. My idea was that FotA brings us such an amount of culture, that it will offset the cost of extra SPs even if we go down the SV route. But this is just a hunch, I have not done the numbers.

 

[vadalaz]

Something we could try for CV is to have 2 natural GMus spawn while the bonus from International Games is active. Then with 2 more from faith we'll have 4 max-strength musicians.

I've never tried this but I think it should work:

- sell Musicians' Guild in the capital; GMu points in the capital are locked at ~250 or whatever it was
- build MG somewhere else, let's say Lalibela
- with 15 GPP Lalibela spawns the 300-point GMu in 20 turns which should just about coincide with IG going online
- sell MG in Lalibela and rebuild it in the capital, which will spawn the 400-point GMu in 10 turns assuming it keeps the 250 points from before

What's our IG tourism gonna be there with Internet, Airports and Aesthetics finished, 500-600? That's not enough to win during IG even with 4 max-strength musicians, so either we'll have to wait for another source of tourism like Cultural Heritage Sites, or start conquering cities.

For SV there's not much more we can do now, other than press next turn a lot. Without GSs or Space Procurements it's just going to be very slow and boring.

And if the game starts lagging too much I think we should scrap it to prevent more hardware failures.

 

[beetle]

I do think think the map settings (large, extra AIs) were a little ambitious for our first Succession Game.

sell MG in Lalibela and rebuild it in the capital, which will spawn the 400-point GMu in 10 turns assuming it keeps the 250 points from before

That is all very creative! It never would have occurred to me to rebuild Mu Guild in a different city! The GE/GS counters are per city but I assume the GA/GW/GMu counters are the empire. That will become obvious as soon as Lalibela builds the Mu Guild (i.e., does the counter start from 0, or from where it was when the Guild was in AA). If Guild counters were per city, it seems like someone would have figured that out before!