Deity AI cash trading got worse than G&K

[EEE_BOY]

Before BNW release, I thought the requirement to have DoF for cash trading helps the early game and peaceful game style, indeed it helps early game. But after the release, they changed the ratio from 1gpt to 22.5g to 1gpt to 30g if AI is friendly enough.

I think the ratio should be reverted back, as it is destroying the peaceful game play now, and making the peaceful game too easy especially for deity play once the player survives the early game and starts to make one AI friend or two.

Simply sell any gpt to AI for cash boost (it is a must-sell situation, no point making gpt while you can get the cash 30 turns before, like milking the AI till the last bit is dry), then accelerate science by buying science buildings, accelerate faith by buying religious CS, accelerate culture by buying cultural CS......

AI with huge cash reserve is not doing anything productive, they should keep buying buildings, units, and CSs, and use their cash rather than selling to human player who knows how to use cash!

And finishing a science, cultural or diplomatic game with 0 military sounds like a joke, but it is happening right now with a bunch of AI friends surrounding the human player.

 

[Resipsa]

You could you know, not trade all your gpt for lump sum. It's the same thing as stealing a CS worker.

 

[pkf]

You could you know, not trade all your gpt for lump sum. It's the same thing as stealing a CS worker.

How is this related to the OP?

 

[IBYCFOTA]

You could you know, not trade all your gpt for lump sum. It's the same thing as stealing a CS worker.

The problem with all of these 'tactics' is that many people use them as part of their general strategy and when they post guides and such it's almost assumed that you do those things too. If these borderline exploits are fixed, then those who are willing to do everything in the book to win won't have a game breaking exploit to utilize and will have to play the game on the same playing field as everybody else.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people stealing workers, pillage / repairing, etc. It's a strategy game and it's logical that people are going to use everything available to them to win. I just know that the strategies discussed on here would be much more interesting and fun to follow along if I know they're playing by the same book that I am. These players are much better than me as it is, I'd like to see their results without resorting to anything that at the very least would be considered immersion breaking as a strategy.

 

[Resipsa]

How is this related to the OP?

Because there's plenty of exploits in the game that you can use, they closed up the exploit regarding gpt for lump sum and then DOW which is certainly an improvement

 

[crabe]

It's not immersion-breaking if you steal a worker as Genghis Khan and then conquer the CS >

 

[tommynt]

well yes it suckz, no Logical reason why they introduced this.

maybe beceause 99,5% of Players are bad and they Need to give them tool to win more easy?
obviously the 0,5% now got even more Tools to trivialise game.

--> go Play mp has been and is the solution to bad ai

 

[Arachnofiend]

The AI code for using gold was reverted back to pre-Fall Patch because the FP broke Austria's AI, apparently. I don't really understand why they couldn't just make an exception for Theresa's behavior but whatever.

 

[BlackWizard]

Cash trading is indeed quite strange. Try to give AI loan. If I want 10gpt for 30 turns from AI so they they want me to give them lump sum 420. That's pretty strange considering that they will give you loan without interest but they will pay less otherway around.

Luckily it's not very often when you have to give loan for AI -> Need gpt to be able to bribe non DOF civilization to go to war etc.

 

[IBYCFOTA]

It's also a bit broken in the sense that AIs will play 240 gold for a lux but if you ask for 6 GPT instead from that same Civ with a DOF he'll decline it, as if more gold and getting it all at once is some kind of dealbreaker. There's also the issue that luxuries and resources have the same trade value in 3000 BC as they do in 1950 AD. These clearly seem to be oversights, no way could I fathom they were done intentionally. Hopefully the much talked about fall patch fixes these issues, among others.

 

[IBYCFOTA]

It's not immersion-breaking if you steal a worker as Genghis Khan and then conquer the CS >

Stealing workers isn't super immersion breaking or anything, I agree. The problem is that it's so easy to do that there becomes almost no reason not to, unless you want to handicap yourself at the expense of your victory chances. If workers were protected better, at least to the point where it wasn't an automatic free worker whenever they get produced, it wouldn't be so bad. The risk reward being that you might scout a CS for 5-10 turns hoping they leave their worker exposed where you could have been exploring and finding ancient ruins / other Civs and CS's. CS's shouldn't accept peace on the first turn either, and while I haven't stolen one from a Civ yet early on, there's apparently some funky behavior from them if you steal their early workers and they completely abandon their strategy and become more or less a sitting duck. More things that need to addressed with this new patch, to be sure.

 

[pkf]

Because there's plenty of exploits in the game that you can use, they closed up the exploit regarding gpt for lump sum and then DOW which is certainly an improvement

deal with it, play the game the way you want to but dont go around imposing your point of view on others, screaming "exploit" when they do something you wouldnt..

its not a moral question, its a balance/design issue.. OP is merely complaining about a balance change he (and I too) would like to see, so your post had nothing to do with it..

 

[Resipsa]

deal with it, play the game the way you want to but dont go around imposing your point of view on others, screaming "exploit" when they do something you wouldnt..

its not a moral question, its a balance/design issue.. OP is merely complaining about a balance change he (and I too) would like to see, so your post had nothing to do with it..

Wait a sec, I'm advocating that the game is fine as is and you're telling me to deal with it? I didn't scream exploit and my post was relevant, deal with it.

 

[Buccaneer]

To me, of all of the BNW pre-release noise, this was the most significant

Neither the Dutch nor Arabia got 'nerfed'. A "playstyle" that a lot of players used got 'nerfed' and now people will have to work a bit harder to get things done (especially early game). That's a good thing.

The Dutch can still trade their luxuries 1-1 and end up with +2 happiness from the deal or sell it for gpt. Arabia can still shop around their extra luxuries and gain extra happiness or gpt. So there are no problems there.

Now the AIs will have their gold to use for themselves and you can happily DoW and break gpt deals without feeling like you're 'exploiting' them.

The 'sell all and then DoW exploit' is also basically wiped out, unless you're doing that to a DoF friend. At which point there's plenty of diplo hate coming your way (both normal warmongering and DoWing a DoF - both of which already occurred in G&K).

The endgame 'sell everything to each and every AI and buy CSs for the diplo win' is also basically broken here, though the Diplo VC is actually a bit more protected from that due to the changes to how it works.

But I had been wondering about these points since then. I guess he was technically correct in each of these but it sure seems like gold exploits are worse than ever. I'm glad the sell/DoW is gone, as well as having DoF (which is unfortunately was made easier) but I don't see how DV was changed. I realize that they will fix the DV in the Fall Patch but what was meant by saying it was basically broken - meaning that it was/is still broken?

 

[Acken]

Loans make no sense in this game at all right now.

-First the fact that AI to player and Player to AI mechanics are different is a really unintuitive and weird mechanic.
-Second, when in Loan, the burrower gets a Sum of cash in exchange for repaying said sum of cash +interest over a period of time. In Civ terms, the lump sum is the loan and GPT is repayment. Repayment = The total sum of GPT = GPT * time = Capital + Interest = Lump_sum + Interest

Therefore it makes absolutely no sense that in some deals Repayment < Lump_sum, which means the Interest is negative. This happens when giving gold to the AI, you give 42 to receive 1 for 30 turns, therefore its a loan with negative interest rate.
When AI gives gold to the player its not much better since it corresponds to a 0 interest rate, you get 30 for 1gpt.

I have no idea why its like that -.-

No lump sum before DoF was a good change but the current gold exchange rate are nonsensical.