Hi Pilgrim! Thanks for the heads up! I did manage to sue for peace for a reasonable price in the end, and ended up getting back into the game quite well. Unfortunately in the end, China launched its spaceship with me 2 parts behind and a little bit of research left to do. I was playing Inca's, for the food benefit of the terrace farms, but I'm giving it a new try now with Korea, with whom I managed to succeed in OCC quite easily on Immortal. Time to join the deities!
Deity OCC Science Victory - G&K Strategy and Tips
- Thread starter Sadato
- Start date
Cheers. I haven't played since a couple of games at release.
On another track, I can't manage to launch sooner than the 280s (waiting for tech, actually building takes 3-4 turns only), but the AI gets science victories in the 240s, and "every tech researched" by the 250s (in diety).
I guess I need to get lucky with diplomacy an manage 5+ permanent DoFs or something.
BWS
Big Bradd Wolfe
Just finished another fun Mayan game. Ended roughly the same way: Washington built the UN a few turns before finishing the spaceship in 289. However, this time I was only about 25-30 turns away from winning myself.
Good stuff: I built the Great Library again, finished Theology before 60 and Education before 90. It's a tough build, but you can pull it off with a hill + stone/deer start, a couple of forests to chop, and a little luck. I wouldn't bother for most civs, but the slingshot to Theology is super helpful for Pacal.
The starting location wasn't perfect, but it had a lot going for it. Coastal, riverside, mountainside hills with stone, silk, forest, and bananas nearby. Turned out to have coal and aluminum in the radius too, with oil just outside. The main flaw was weak luxuries.
I also had an easier time with diplomacy. I got more research agreements (although never four at a time), and my enemies were predictable and easy to deal with. The Long Count makes it easy to plant citadels in prime locations, so that your enemies never even get close enough to disrupt your economy. I didn't have much luck distracting Monty & Hiawatha, but I didn't have any trouble fending them off either, and eventually they were too busy fighting Washington between them. It was a bit disconcerting to see American Giant Death Robots stroll past my borders to fight the neighbors, but Washington turned out to be a loyal friend right up until he won the game.
Bad stuff: After a great early surge, I struggled with science and cash flow in the mid-game. The cash problems I attribute to a combination of weak luxuries (3-4 silk + 1 gold too far away to buy the tile) and redundant military. I don't have a good feel yet for how much I need for defense, and how much to accept from city states. A lighthouse eventually helped with cash.
The science problem I'm less clear about. I spent much of the game with 2nd place science close behind Hiawatha or Washington, but I could never quite take the lead, and Washington eventually ran away with it. And I was only on pace for a turn 315-320 science win, finishing the techs around 305, which I'm pretty sure is too slow to win. I think I could have done a better job managing my population; I finished the game with about 24 citizens.
Good stuff: I built the Great Library again, finished Theology before 60 and Education before 90. It's a tough build, but you can pull it off with a hill + stone/deer start, a couple of forests to chop, and a little luck. I wouldn't bother for most civs, but the slingshot to Theology is super helpful for Pacal.
The starting location wasn't perfect, but it had a lot going for it. Coastal, riverside, mountainside hills with stone, silk, forest, and bananas nearby. Turned out to have coal and aluminum in the radius too, with oil just outside. The main flaw was weak luxuries.
I also had an easier time with diplomacy. I got more research agreements (although never four at a time), and my enemies were predictable and easy to deal with. The Long Count makes it easy to plant citadels in prime locations, so that your enemies never even get close enough to disrupt your economy. I didn't have much luck distracting Monty & Hiawatha, but I didn't have any trouble fending them off either, and eventually they were too busy fighting Washington between them. It was a bit disconcerting to see American Giant Death Robots stroll past my borders to fight the neighbors, but Washington turned out to be a loyal friend right up until he won the game.
Bad stuff: After a great early surge, I struggled with science and cash flow in the mid-game. The cash problems I attribute to a combination of weak luxuries (3-4 silk + 1 gold too far away to buy the tile) and redundant military. I don't have a good feel yet for how much I need for defense, and how much to accept from city states. A lighthouse eventually helped with cash.
The science problem I'm less clear about. I spent much of the game with 2nd place science close behind Hiawatha or Washington, but I could never quite take the lead, and Washington eventually ran away with it. And I was only on pace for a turn 315-320 science win, finishing the techs around 305, which I'm pretty sure is too slow to win. I think I could have done a better job managing my population; I finished the game with about 24 citizens.
Goddamnit, so the guide was for an old patch. I knew 220 was just too far out of bounds for the times I was getting.
Shaving a 280 to a 260 or 250, sure. But going 280 to 220 was just not going to happen.
I would be pro if an edit comment was appended to the OP so other noobs don't spend days pulling their hair out.
well, there has only been one patch since GnK came out (in early December i think) and it was a significant game changer. so if you want to gauge whether a strategy is current you can check if threads started roughly pre-december.
I think it's a no-brainer that Hanging Gardens is better than ToA. However, I also find it much harder to get, as all the AIs seem to go for it if they can. There was one game where I managed to get ToA, Hanging Gardens and Petra. But then I still lost because I got overrun. I haven't managed to come even close to having a balanced game on the one hand and getting Hanging Gardens. From what I've seen so far is you have some chance to get ToA, a small chance to get Petra and almost no chance to get Hanging Gardens.
I did it!
Standard Pangea Quick, with Korea. I was quickly surrounded by the Aztecs and the Huns in the start and I had a few scared moments when both of them declared war on me early on and pillaged everything, including my citadel. I had a good funnel because of mountains though, and managed to turtle long enough to to be able to buy peace from them not too long afterwards. Atilla was a sweetheart for the rest of the game, the Aztecs required some more persuasion, like me taking giant loans from them when I heard they were plotting against me. I managed to stay out of war for the rest of the game.
I threw the beginning build/research order around quite a lot, because I had about 1/3 of my tiles in desert and I really wanted to get Petra, so I beelined it, even before researching mining and calendar. I think it was the deciding point of the game. I then spent all my money on quickly expanding my borders into the desert hills, just to prevent the Aztecs from settling there and taking those now precious resources from me, used all my spies to get plots about everyone and spilled the beans on everyone, so everybody loved me in the end. I had RA's going on with 4 out of 6 civs at the end. Hiawatha Nebuchadnezzar were going strong for the spaceship as well so I payed the rest to go to war with them to provide some distraction, while I piled up the spaceship parts around my city.
Won by turn 187.
In short:
LOOK AT ME, I'M A DEITY NOW!
Standard Pangea Quick, with Korea. I was quickly surrounded by the Aztecs and the Huns in the start and I had a few scared moments when both of them declared war on me early on and pillaged everything, including my citadel. I had a good funnel because of mountains though, and managed to turtle long enough to to be able to buy peace from them not too long afterwards. Atilla was a sweetheart for the rest of the game, the Aztecs required some more persuasion, like me taking giant loans from them when I heard they were plotting against me. I managed to stay out of war for the rest of the game.
I threw the beginning build/research order around quite a lot, because I had about 1/3 of my tiles in desert and I really wanted to get Petra, so I beelined it, even before researching mining and calendar. I think it was the deciding point of the game. I then spent all my money on quickly expanding my borders into the desert hills, just to prevent the Aztecs from settling there and taking those now precious resources from me, used all my spies to get plots about everyone and spilled the beans on everyone, so everybody loved me in the end. I had RA's going on with 4 out of 6 civs at the end. Hiawatha Nebuchadnezzar were going strong for the spaceship as well so I payed the rest to go to war with them to provide some distraction, while I piled up the spaceship parts around my city.
Won by turn 187.
In short:
LOOK AT ME, I'M A DEITY NOW!
http://www.twitch.tv/toothache42/b/356651361
Tried doing a stream roughly following this plan, using Babylon again. I know I'm not signing RAs ASAP again, but I was finding myself very short of cash. I wonder if anyone would be willing to watch this, and give me hints to see what else I may be doing wrong and any tips to improve my game. Video is roughly 3 hours long, and it is a failed attempt as William wipes me out, but I was going to lose anyway as Rameses got Apollo crazy early.
PS Apologies for the awful mic, I never realised it was so bad.
Tried doing a stream roughly following this plan, using Babylon again. I know I'm not signing RAs ASAP again, but I was finding myself very short of cash. I wonder if anyone would be willing to watch this, and give me hints to see what else I may be doing wrong and any tips to improve my game. Video is roughly 3 hours long, and it is a failed attempt as William wipes me out, but I was going to lose anyway as Rameses got Apollo crazy early.
PS Apologies for the awful mic, I never realised it was so bad.
ToA + HG + Petra + mountains + desert hills + Inca rule!
Finished the game on 229. Considering only 5 of us left and China wasn't exactly friendly but trolled me with phony wars instead, it's not bad at all. Although could have been better. Korea was killed 3 turns before RA resolved. Japan died even earlier.Got 17 wonders in total. Was too lazy to grab the rest.
hi there mates. Could someone clear the following? On the screenshot in the town tooltip there is 611 bpt, while in the top left corner it is 900 bpt. How is that? I guess i'm missing something
The Pilgrim, you planted only 3 GS, am i right? If so, 900 bpt looks just crazy. Have no idea, how is that possible =))
Hyperion529
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 303
oops, indeed, i forgot that bpts from policies don't show in the town tooltip.
imo, this bpts are not from patronage, but more likely from freedom policy. or, if from patronage, he had about 10 allied CS, which is sick =))
did someone else try those initial save?
The Pilgrim
Deity
Hi Fir! Welcome to CFC!
Hyperion529 got it right. Scholasticism and Rationalism opener. And working 14 specialists slots also helped a tiny bit.
I had 10 or 11 CS allies. Could have allied more, had the Mongols not been the Mongols and swallowed a bunch. China couped another couple before her final DoW too. CS allies come easy in late game when you don't have to save the cash for rush buying buildings and RA's anymore. Spies and paying close attention to CS quests is all it takes. With OCC you can easily pick Aesthetics to make the whole business even cheaper. And sell gpt (and unnecessary buildings to increase it) as last resort.
Hi Fir! Welcome to CFC!
Hyperion529 got it right. Scholasticism and Rationalism opener. And working 14 specialists slots also helped a tiny bit.
I had 10 or 11 CS allies. Could have allied more, had the Mongols not been the Mongols and swallowed a bunch. China couped another couple before her final DoW too. CS allies come easy in late game when you don't have to save the cash for rush buying buildings and RA's anymore. Spies and paying close attention to CS quests is all it takes. With OCC you can easily pick Aesthetics to make the whole business even cheaper. And sell gpt (and unnecessary buildings to increase it) as last resort.
Thanks for your respond mate! Now everything is way more clearer for me!
Btw, great forum! Me myself long time reader, first time poster =))
Snowbeavers
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 19
I can't do it. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Have tried 5 times now but can't seem to get enough science. At the end I was turning out 614 beakers per turn but I think I shouldn't have burnt the last 3 scientists. Also, my city was only size 23 at the end. Any advice?? I was Babylon.
Also, I got all the wonders mentioned but still can't grow my city big enough or get enough science. Sigh..
Also, I got all the wonders mentioned but still can't grow my city big enough or get enough science. Sigh..
Here is my best effort to date on the new patch, turn 240.
This start was a dream, river, mountain, 3x wheat, enough lux and production.
Pushed out worker ASAP to farm the wheat, after meeting laventa i borrowed and bought temple and got desert folklore early. Added tithe, got prophets with faith and Hagia Sophia. Ultimately had a good 1/3 of the map under my religion which meant a lot of dough. Got Education at T78!
Planted GS up until Research Lab at T165ish. Popped every one after. Timed a GS and GE on same turn, saved him for hubble.
I had everything but the stasis chamber built at T222. Had to wait to plow through remaining techs to win by 240.
Things I should have done better / taken a different path:
*Moderated the balance of power better. Austria got beat down to just a city next to el dorado by T70 or so. She remained that way the rest of the game. Monty was reduced to just his capital around T150. Therefore both were always broke so i didn't think it was worth it to constantly pay their entire half of an RA. They couldn't even afford a loan. I had 5 RAs going with everyone else the entire game. Perhaps I could have shaved a few turns by sinking some money into bottom of the barrel RAs. But even before that I should have tried to keep them healthier by playing other civs against each other. I did manage to save Ghandi from destruction in the last few turns by paying off the Ottomans and get his RA to pop for the last tech.
*Allied with more City States. I had a lot of excess cash after T170 or so, and even here and there before that. I should have been buying more allies. I was afraid to upset their current allies and risk not signing RAs. What should I have been doing here?
*Had I been more agressive in gaining CS allies, it would be better to pursue Scholasticism over Planned Economy. I wasn't producing enough culture to viably go for both and went with PE.
To answer Snowbeavers above, I had 773 science in the end with a much larger population. To me it's all about research agreements and food. When I play non petra starts and only get 3-4 RAs per cycle, it never ends well. When I do win in those situations, it's more around T280 and more often than not computer won by then. That's why I say this is my best effort to date, since the patch came however long ago Lots of failed games.
Spoiler :
This start was a dream, river, mountain, 3x wheat, enough lux and production.
Pushed out worker ASAP to farm the wheat, after meeting laventa i borrowed and bought temple and got desert folklore early. Added tithe, got prophets with faith and Hagia Sophia. Ultimately had a good 1/3 of the map under my religion which meant a lot of dough. Got Education at T78!
Planted GS up until Research Lab at T165ish. Popped every one after. Timed a GS and GE on same turn, saved him for hubble.
I had everything but the stasis chamber built at T222. Had to wait to plow through remaining techs to win by 240.
Things I should have done better / taken a different path:
*Moderated the balance of power better. Austria got beat down to just a city next to el dorado by T70 or so. She remained that way the rest of the game. Monty was reduced to just his capital around T150. Therefore both were always broke so i didn't think it was worth it to constantly pay their entire half of an RA. They couldn't even afford a loan. I had 5 RAs going with everyone else the entire game. Perhaps I could have shaved a few turns by sinking some money into bottom of the barrel RAs. But even before that I should have tried to keep them healthier by playing other civs against each other. I did manage to save Ghandi from destruction in the last few turns by paying off the Ottomans and get his RA to pop for the last tech.
*Allied with more City States. I had a lot of excess cash after T170 or so, and even here and there before that. I should have been buying more allies. I was afraid to upset their current allies and risk not signing RAs. What should I have been doing here?
*Had I been more agressive in gaining CS allies, it would be better to pursue Scholasticism over Planned Economy. I wasn't producing enough culture to viably go for both and went with PE.
To answer Snowbeavers above, I had 773 science in the end with a much larger population. To me it's all about research agreements and food. When I play non petra starts and only get 3-4 RAs per cycle, it never ends well. When I do win in those situations, it's more around T280 and more often than not computer won by then. That's why I say this is my best effort to date, since the patch came however long ago
Lots of failed games.
I missed that i could faith purchase GS at 2500, used him to bulb the remaining turn of research, built stasis a turn earlier.Hi, Snowbeavers. Yep, 23 is way too small population. Did you able to build ToA, HG? Maybe Petra (if there are many desert tiles)? Finish Tradition tree quickly? Fertility Rites and Swords into Plowshares helps alot too. How many tiles with 3 food were near you city in the very beginning? They also make a difference.
And 614 bpt is low imo, too. Try to aim at 800 at least. Try finish Freedom tree, after you get Scientific Revolution. I did it in my last game. Was around 1000 bpt (Inca though, assume it is much easier with Inca if many mountain/hill tiles present). Hope that helps you abit.
Oh, and forgot to mention. All of that will be useless anyway if in your game there is one civ that way ahead of others. You absolutely need to buy DoW's with that leader. Do that during all the game. You need to not let them increase the gap between you.
Hyperion529
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 303
