[BNW] Deity Ring Trial Game - Poland

[Grendeldef]

It's a fortunate case when the worker isn't working on immediately useful tile (I'm quite sure that my own games have had well below average starts) but even then the effect is only slightly postponed and diminished.
Tradition can do fine on its own but for Liberty every hammer counts and for expansion one needs some happiness. There's a huge difference (usually) building Settlers from 6 rather that 4 pop city - there are not necessarily enough hammer tiles but running 2x3gpt tiles as a bonus the entirety of building Settlers is quite nice etc.

Obviously the debate of whether a T0 Worker is OP or not could go on forever but one can easily try it out by oneself. Roll a map std/Large map without ruins or barbs and remove all but one AI from the game and then set a build & tech order to follow from a normal start and one with a starting Worker. The city will look quite a bit different on T50.
Attila obviously is a special case but the current new series start would offer a fine demo ground. I don't know if the barbs can be removed after rolling but the starting Warrior and additional Scout can fend them off without taking any ruins and the nearby AIs can be deleted if need be.

 

[raider980]

I think if you want an early worker, you should practice taking one from AI.

Well I don't think that's going to happen. I have come to the conclusion that trying to take a worker from the AI just causes me to waste time not exploring and doing other things I should be doing. With the Huns it may be doable but I may not even try. I just get into trouble when I do.

Then that to a degree proves my point that a free Worker on T0 is OP and the game shouldn't be seen as Deity anymore.

I didn't think it was supposed to be Deity. It's "lite", supposed to be somewhere in between Immortal and Deity. You're not saying that a free worker makes it on the level of Immortal are you? There's no way it makes it that easy with all the other advantages the AI gets. On the Greece community challenge game the player got a worker, scout and hoplite for the "lite" version (he called it Demigod).

 

[Grendeldef]

I didn't think it was supposed to be Deity. It's "lite", supposed to be somewhere in between Immortal and Deity. You're not saying that a free worker makes it on the level of Immortal are you? There's no way it makes it that easy with all the other advantages the AI gets. On the Greece community challenge game the player got a worker, scout and hoplite for the "lite" version (he called it Demigod).

I think the Deity in the title is an indication of supposed difficulty level. Sure, it's partly semantics and the T0 Worker doesn't demote it to Immortal but it's far from Deity.

The main difference between Deity and Immortal is that on Deity there's an extremely remote possibility of losing while on Immortal there isn't - T0 Worker removes that distinction apart extremely bad dirt and Shaka as the closest AI.

I'm not sure but I assume that Consentient's use of Demigod comes from Acken's mod where it is a proper concept while outside it doesn't. Anyway, I think the usage was well justified as the start boost was significant enough to remove the Deity status. Semantics is a wonderful thing.


What comes to worker stealing in general may I suggest reorganizing your priorities in the early stages - if there're no available recruits from major civs give visa to one (or multiple) of an unimportant CS, it'll surely pay off without going to the details.

 

[mbbcam]

The main difference between Deity and Immortal is that on Deity there's an extremely remote possibility of losing while on Immortal there isn't

For me, there is 100% chance of losing on Deity!

 

[Grendeldef]

Then you're way too polite towards AI.

 

[raider980]

For me, there is 100% chance of losing on Deity!

Hahaha, I was about to post the same thing. "losing" in that statement needs to be changed to "winning".
"

 

[mbbcam]

Then you're way too polite towards AI.

I'm sure you're right. But I have always found that when I am impolite I shortly afterwards get overwhelmed by several million military and naval units that are even more impolite than I was. There is clearly a right way to go about being impolite, and I haven't worked out what it is. I sometimes wonder about the tommynt approach of going to war from the outset and never letting up, but he was an extraordinary player. However, I realise that there is no point in continuing to do what I do at the moment. I will have to try something new.

Thanks for the insight -- pithy but valuable!

 

[beetle]

I didn't think it was supposed to be Deity. It's "lite", supposed to be somewhere in between Immortal and Deity. You're not saying that a free worker makes it on the level of Immortal are you? There's no way it makes it that easy with all the other advantages the AI gets.

Take a look at this chart (which has not been kept up to date with expansions and patches, but it is close enough) which lets you see what changes the designers were making at each difficulty level. It is pretty smooth progression from Settler to Deity, except that at Deity the AI gets a bump (with the extra units) in addition to all the other modifiers.

IMHO, the devs really should have offered a difficulty level between Immortal and Deity.

For me, there is 100% chance of losing on Deity!

Try the “lite” versions I have been posting of late. Several of the games in the CDG series are characterized as “easy” or “very easy”, so start with those. They are still Deity games!

I'm sure you're right. But I have always found that when I am impolite I shortly afterwards get overwhelmed by several million military and naval units that are even more impolite than I was. There is clearly a right way to go about being impolite, and I haven't worked out what it is. I sometimes wonder about the tommynt approach of going to war from the outset and never letting up, but he was an extraordinary player. However, I realise that there is no point in continuing to do what I do at the moment. I will have to try something new.

My recent Hun map is very good for going to war from the outset and never letting up. The map I will be posting in about twelve hours is also good for early war.

Yes, @tommynt was an amazing player, but do keep in mind that the AI behavior has been patched quite a bit (all for the more competitive play) since his early vids.