[Deity Shadow] Making the jump to Deity :D

[krikav]

Sometimes you have an island where most/all of your cities have alot of natural hammers. TIles like iron/cow/horse/copper/etc.
Then it makes sense to tech alpha and build research.

Than you can usually also tech math too, and then bulb optics.
But it's when you have the opportunity to run for 3 scientsits, 1 for optics, 2 for astro.

Avoiding meditation at all costs to avoid philosophy to jump up in the queue for bulb. (and also theology and CS, since they open up the bulb toward paper before you have bulbed astro).

Trading for CoL and then running caste abit after contact to rush out scientists in time is probably doable, but it's risky to count on getting trades.

 

[Fippy]

I think Astro itself can be delayed a bit no biggie, as Krikav wrote Caste can usually make up for lagging behind in
With tech trading on Optics usually decides how the game will go, Astro boost is nice but not game changing if 5t later.

Here an Academy would be questionable anyways, 1 gems and a whole lot of nothing
Bulbing Optics is uncommon on those settings. Pretty much needs PHI or Rep + Caste.

4 cities with 3 gems, GLH and some failgold isn't bad at all.
There are no great spots that we should add asap for now, yup double seafood + Iron looks nice but it's really not that helpful at such long distance.
When workers are ready and one city can easily get out that settler, okay. But no rush.

 

[Ocre307]

Been a bit busy but I should be able to play more this week

Current plans, just to think out loud:
- Continue push toward Optics
- Grab the double seafood location just south of New York when convenient
- Use axes to start spawnbusting more of our continent
- Get some triremes into the water, to protect from pirates

Turnset T91-T115
T92: Hagia Sophia built. AI is making good use of its crazy Oracle->Theology, I guess.

T93: Ack! A barb Galley comes within sight of New York, with 8 turns to go on Metal Casting. I worry for my fishermen...

Spoiler :

T94: Hanging Gardens built.
My first scouting axeman sees a barb city. Looks like I should raze + replace 1 tile east, when the time comes for that. (Should probably draw up a proper dotmap first, though)

Spoiler :

T95: New York's fish is pillaged Gonna slow down that GS by quite a bit, though I don't think by enough that Astro actually gets delayed. I use my prechopped forest to get another work boat out quicker. Trireme will probably (?) get whipped. Maybe I'll use my other forest.
T99: The trireme went a couple tiles north of my fish and then turned around? Why didn't it go exploring for other fish I guess that work boat is going to sit in the city until I make a trireme.

T100: Metal Casting discovered! Time for some triremes and some cheap Industrious forges Compass on the docket (heh) next.
T102: First trireme whipped in New York. I'll use the overflow and a chop to finish the library, ready to start running scientists once it's back at size 3.
Mausoleum of Mausallos is built.
(I'm going to stop reporting on every wonder built here, because it's getting tiresome )

Now, I do notice that a certain big bronze statue hasn't been built yet At worst that will be fail for me. Unfortunately I have iron but no copper, so it will only get the Industrious trait modifier.

T106: For the first time since Pyramids fail, we go back to 0% science. Compass should be done in 4 turns.
As excited as I've been about forges, they are taking away from my already very limited . Harbors will help with that. Also, it means I need to get the clams!

T109: Compass discovered! Just Machinery and Optics left. With my current situation, it'll take a bit to get there though... With the massive 13 turns on Machinery, even if I had the treasury to pay for it (I don't), I think clams city will have to be delayed until Optics
...
Now I understand what krikav was talking about

T110: Great General born in a far away land The AIs are fighting, always happy to hear that.
T113: Another Great General born.

T115 (1AD!): Our first GS in born, a fellow by the name of Descartes. The next one in New York is due in 27 turns.
New York is also building a sword or two to go and beat up the barbs, along with the second spawnbust axe.

Overview of the continent:

Spoiler :

End of turnset

 

[Ocre307]

Turnset T115-T149
T117: Hey, wouldn't you know it, one of the last fogged tiles on the continent has copper

Spoiler :

Also, another Great General was born. Lots of fighting

With my 2 axes and trireme defogging most of the continent, I send out the warriors forming the walls to go spawnbust the last few tiles in the corner. I hope they still remember how to use their legs

T119: The Colossus built in a far away land. I was about halfway done with it, so 100 fail will roll in next turn and get me most of the way through Machinery and Optics! Caravels are within sight

T120: Another Great General spawned in a far away land. How do we know this anyway?

My workers don't have much to do. My cities are small and my tiles are improved. So it's time to start a big de-jungling project

T125: Machinery discovered! Optics due in about 13 turns.
Also, two swords finish in Washington and New York. Time to go beat up that barb city!
...
Thinking about it, this will be one of my only chances to get a Heroic Epic-grade troop. Maybe I should focus on that instead of taking the city immediately
Problem: Even a Cover axe doesn't get very good odds on a fortified barb archer! I guess I should use a sword instead, to farm experience.
Should've thought about all this before building so many attack units

Spoiler :

T127: Another GG born.
T128: TWO GGs born! I hope I don't find myself a runaway AI with like 3 vassals

T131: My swordsman, destined for Heroic Epic greatness, claims his first victim

T134: Due to cottage growth, Optics now due in 3 turns I am preparing units to whip into Caravels

T137: Optics discovered!
However, clearly I don't know how to optimize overflow. Neither of these Caravels are anywhere close to being done I should've just prepared a size 6 city to cold-whip one.

On the next turn, I will one-pop whip them instead.

Spoiler :

T139: Three caravels in the water! Two built, one upgraded. Time to find some AIs friends :cheeky:
I will send Descartes, my first Great Scientist, as cargo, since he can bulb at any point even in foreign lines, and can do some grunt scout work while we're waiting

The de-jungling project has been completed! There is only one tile of jungle left within my borders, and it is the next city site

In other big news, Atlanta was founded, a coastal city where anyone can go for a nice snack
(oops, that picture didn't save)
Clams were immediately connected, solving some problems nation-wide.

Truly a banner year

T142: The second half of Astronomy, Johannes Kepler, was born.
We also receive news that someone has discovered Liberalism! In 640 AD? These Deity AIs are no joke
...
To the northeast, we meet our first AI opponent! Shaka He founded and practices Confucianism, must have built the Pyramids as he is in Police State, and has 12 cities! Two of them are named Marseilles and Rheims, so he's been delivering a beatdown.
He also doesn't have Alphabet I will hold off on Open Borders until I find out more of the diplomatic situation here.

Spoiler :

T144: I realize how silly that last sentence is, because Descartes can't go scouting without Open Borders
I sign Open Borders, and unload my cargo near the tundra port of Ondini. There are maces in that city!
(image)
Also, Shaka discovered Alphabet since we last spoke I have Compass up on him but nothing else. I could gift him 20 to get him to Pleased and trade Compass for Mathematics or Alphabet. I guess I better do that soon (like next turn) or else that little gift won't be worthwile!

T145: Shaka has learned Compass from someone I guess I will trade him Optics for both techs?

Spoiler :

T146: We meet Napoleon, Shaka's worst enemy and currently war victim! He has 7 cities (none of them Zulu), founded and practices Taoism, and is about as advanced as Shaka.

Spoiler :

Shaka looks like a big dog in this game, so no Open Borders for you Napoleon!

T147: I trade Compass to Napoleon for Calendar.
Now I can bulb Astronomy!
I already moved the scout-Scientist this turn though.
...
:angry: Wait, why did trading one tech with Napoleon give me -4 "You have traded with our worst enemy!" with Shaka? I thought it was only active deals that did that
Well, oops. Now Shaka hates me.

T148: So far, my westward Caravel has found nothing. But using the culture lens on the Globe View, we can see some yellowish culture poking through! Next turn I'll meet this new friend
To the east, we meet Sitting Bull.

Spoiler :

He has 8 cities.
His worst enemy is also Napoleon, but he doesn't have any "You have traded with our worst enemy!" maluses. So it doesn't bother an opponent to trade with their worst enemy, if you haven't met them yet?
This is the kind of detail you only learn while typing up reports like this Well, since no one hates him yet (as far as I know), I will grab Compass -> Currency off him.

...

I am a silly person! I whipped a Monument in Atlanta with Astronomy due in 2 turns! I guess I'll need to spend some time in Caste soon, for a free artist to pop borders?

T149: We meet the remaining 3 AIs

Spoiler :

Say hi to Ramesses, Joao, and Boudica

Joao is Boudica's war vassal She owns Oporto and Lisbon. Joao was lucky to get out of that alive!

Egypt was the one who built the Oracle to get Theology Actually, almost everyone is a different religion! That's very unusual. (well, Boudica has Free Religion, but still.)

End of turnset
Man that was an exciting one

Astronomy due in 1 turn!
Here is the tech overview, and another empire overview:

Spoiler :

 

[Ocre307]

Sorry if I played too many turns there. I should've waited for more feedback. I was too drawn in though, I *needed* to see what those AIs were up to in the fog

 

[Fippy]

Yup a bit too fast for significant imput.
Feels like you should have more cities ready after Optics.

 

[krikav]

T137 Optics is perfecly acceptable. I feel like this map has potential for much better though. Would guess that T120-T125 is possible with the gems but not sure. Anyway, T137 is good!
Yepp, you should be more prepared for the optics discovery.
I don't really like the option of cold-whipping, thats burning production potential at a time when you are likely short on production and long on commerce.
Much more prefer trireme upgrades in that case, but the "whip settler for max overflow and top it off with a chop" is optimal.


T149 Astro is on spot! Make sure you check your economical advisor prior and after astro, you will be suprised at how insane the boost really is.

I agree with @Fippy, you are lagging behind abit on cities and production base now.

There is no single point in civ4 that I have ever found, that has a more radical pivot point than the one at optics discovery.
Just prior to optics, the value of food/hammers is very low, and commerce is golden.
Just after optics, the value of commerce drops like a rock, and the value of food/hammers to sprawl your island goes through the roof.


This map doesn't look too bad!
Make sure you get boudica to pleased and keep her there. If you manage that she will leave you alone for the entire game and she is likely no threat from either space or culture.
Diplo wise, I would prioritize the low peaceweight leaders and tell Ramsy/Sitting bull to take a hike whenever they ask something.
Ramsy is a good target, soft and builds alot of goodies.

Plan could be something like this:
* Settle your continent and develop.
* Get some military tech like cannons and take all of Ramsys stuff (Likely a bad idea to make a vassal of him).
* Join a phony war against sitting bull, and generally try to buddy up with shaka/nappy/boudi as good as you can. Highest priority on Boudi.
* Recover from getting Ramsys stuff with state property and make economy working again.
* Tech again for next military tech and then attack someone convenient, perhaps sitting bull, perhaps backstab shaka/nappy.

Diplo is probably very much possible here too if you play your cards right.

 

[krikav]

Oh, I didn't see Nappy/Shaka was in war.
I would join the war against Nappy because he will likely be irrelevant soon anyway.

Trading with him was a mistake, that -4 will fade down rather quick but getting rid of it completely will take quite some time.
It's something like total beakers traded divided by number of turns known. This is why you can get Toku to pleased and getting OB with him by gifting him 10g the turn you meet him.

Yepp, sitting bull didn't see you trade so he doesn't hate you for that.

Monument whipped prior to astro will still generate culture.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Looks like Napolean Libbed gunpowder; Taj might be in play if you can get marble...

That's the thing about an early lib / oracle date; might end up being no benefit to the AI...

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Monument whipped prior to astro will still generate culture.

Key distinction I had failed to know before - Astro clears monuments and SH seperately - so a city that *builds* a monument keeps the culture (but not the charismatic / totem pole / obelisk / stele benefit), and a city with a free 'stonehenge monument' gets no culture.

 

[Ocre307]

Yup a bit too fast for significant imput.
Feels like you should have more cities ready after Optics.

I agree with both points Sorry! Still trying to find a good pace of play

Diplo wise, I would prioritize the low peaceweight leaders and tell Ramsy/Sitting bull to take a hike whenever they ask something.

This was my thought, yeah. Team up with Shaka + Boudica since they're the big dogs and then try and make something out of that.

Get some military tech like cannons and take all of Ramsys stuff (Likely a bad idea to make a vassal of him).

Why is it a bad idea to vassal him, out of curiousity? Can the AI plot war against your own vassals?

Hm.. cannons, huh? I guess you don't need much more than that besides muskets? Kaitzilla told me that siege units are key, so clearly I haven't used them enough I'll try and learn though!

You mentioned diplo, would we want to run military for diplo? It seems unlikely that anyone besides me, Shaka, or Boudica will be top in population. Though if Ramesses builds the UN then maybe it's not a problem

 

[Ocre307]

Typing that out, it's clear I don't have too strong of an idea of how to actually pursue specific victory conditions... I kinda just have this vague goal of "get stronger" and get ahead in techs at some point. Not sure exactly how to move forward from here, then. Just settle the continent, then a Steel beeline?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Turnset T115-T149
T117: Hey, wouldn't you know it, one of the last fogged tiles on the continent has copper

Spoiler :

Also, another Great General was born. Lots of fighting

With my 2 axes and trireme defogging most of the continent, I send out the warriors forming the walls to go spawnbust the last few tiles in the corner. I hope they still remember how to use their legs

T119: The Colossus built in a far away land. I was about halfway done with it, so 100 fail will roll in next turn and get me most of the way through Machinery and Optics! Caravels are within sight

T120: Another Great General spawned in a far away land. How do we know this anyway?

My workers don't have much to do. My cities are small and my tiles are improved. So it's time to start a big de-jungling project

T125: Machinery discovered! Optics due in about 13 turns.
Also, two swords finish in Washington and New York. Time to go beat up that barb city!
...
Thinking about it, this will be one of my only chances to get a Heroic Epic-grade troop. Maybe I should focus on that instead of taking the city immediately
Problem: Even a Cover axe doesn't get very good odds on a fortified barb archer! I guess I should use a sword instead, to farm experience.
Should've thought about all this before building so many attack units

Spoiler :

T127: Another GG born.
T128: TWO GGs born! I hope I don't find myself a runaway AI with like 3 vassals

T131: My swordsman, destined for Heroic Epic greatness, claims his first victim

T134: Due to cottage growth, Optics now due in 3 turns I am preparing units to whip into Caravels

T137: Optics discovered!
However, clearly I don't know how to optimize overflow. Neither of these Caravels are anywhere close to being done I should've just prepared a size 6 city to cold-whip one.

On the next turn, I will one-pop whip them instead.

Spoiler :

T139: Three caravels in the water! Two built, one upgraded. Time to find some AIs friends :cheeky:
I will send Descartes, my first Great Scientist, as cargo, since he can bulb at any point even in foreign lines, and can do some grunt scout work while we're waiting

The de-jungling project has been completed! There is only one tile of jungle left within my borders, and it is the next city site

In other big news, Atlanta was founded, a coastal city where anyone can go for a nice snack
(oops, that picture didn't save)
Clams were immediately connected, solving some problems nation-wide.

Truly a banner year

T142: The second half of Astronomy, Johannes Kepler, was born.
We also receive news that someone has discovered Liberalism! In 640 AD? These Deity AIs are no joke
...
To the northeast, we meet our first AI opponent! Shaka He founded and practices Confucianism, must have built the Pyramids as he is in Police State, and has 12 cities! Two of them are named Marseilles and Rheims, so he's been delivering a beatdown.
He also doesn't have Alphabet I will hold off on Open Borders until I find out more of the diplomatic situation here.

Spoiler :

T144: I realize how silly that last sentence is, because Descartes can't go scouting without Open Borders
I sign Open Borders, and unload my cargo near the tundra port of Ondini. There are maces in that city!
(image)
Also, Shaka discovered Alphabet since we last spoke I have Compass up on him but nothing else. I could gift him 20 to get him to Pleased and trade Compass for Mathematics or Alphabet. I guess I better do that soon (like next turn) or else that little gift won't be worthwile!

T145: Shaka has learned Compass from someone I guess I will trade him Optics for both techs?

Spoiler :

T146: We meet Napoleon, Shaka's worst enemy and currently war victim! He has 7 cities (none of them Zulu), founded and practices Taoism, and is about as advanced as Shaka.

Spoiler :

Shaka looks like a big dog in this game, so no Open Borders for you Napoleon!

T147: I trade Compass to Napoleon for Calendar.
Now I can bulb Astronomy!
I already moved the scout-Scientist this turn though.
...
:angry: Wait, why did trading one tech with Napoleon give me -4 "You have traded with our worst enemy!" with Shaka? I thought it was only active deals that did that
Well, oops. Now Shaka hates me.

T148: So far, my westward Caravel has found nothing. But using the culture lens on the Globe View, we can see some yellowish culture poking through! Next turn I'll meet this new friend
To the east, we meet Sitting Bull.

Spoiler :

He has 8 cities.
His worst enemy is also Napoleon, but he doesn't have any "You have traded with our worst enemy!" maluses. So it doesn't bother an opponent to trade with their worst enemy, if you haven't met them yet?
This is the kind of detail you only learn while typing up reports like this Well, since no one hates him yet (as far as I know), I will grab Compass -> Currency off him.

...

I am a silly person! I whipped a Monument in Atlanta with Astronomy due in 2 turns! I guess I'll need to spend some time in Caste soon, for a free artist to pop borders?

T149: We meet the remaining 3 AIs

Spoiler :

Say hi to Ramesses, Joao, and Boudica

Joao is Boudica's war vassal She owns Oporto and Lisbon. Joao was lucky to get out of that alive!

Egypt was the one who built the Oracle to get Theology Actually, almost everyone is a different religion! That's very unusual. (well, Boudica has Free Religion, but still.)

End of turnset
Man that was an exciting one

Astronomy due in 1 turn!
Here is the tech overview, and another empire overview:

Spoiler :

Cool, almost got Astronomy!

Let's see, long term advice.

Settle your whole island fast right?
Sign open borders with everyone and refuse to stop trading with anyone if it is demanded with you.
Try to trade for resources or per turn once you get Astro of course.


As for the AI, We Fear You are Becoming Too advanced will be a big issue since this is Deity.
Already all the AI have seen you get 4 techs.

Shaka and Sitting Bull will be the worst trading partners.
Only a few more techs and they won't trade with you anymore.

Egypt is a pain to trade with unless everyone already knows all the techs.
Plus, he is the weakest persimmon to pluck with tons of wonders and traditionally weak army.

I would say Boudica and Joao are good trading partners.

Napoleon will be your golden boy.
DOW Shaka who can't reach you and build up huge +diplo with Nappy.
Trade a bunch of resources to him to get +2 shared resources quickly.
+4 fair trade and +1 peace and pretty soon you can have Friendly Napoleon the tech leader who will trade you any tech at all.


As for trade advice, again WFYABTA is the long term issue.
I'd say self-tech anything yourself that costs less than 500
Everyone already knows those techs so you should get a 30% research bonus.

Trade techs with Sitting Bull 1st, then trade with Joao the next turn (if you get Aesthetics you can trade it with Sitting Bull), then trade with Boudica the next turn, and then finally trade techs with Napoleon.
Boudica and Joao have not met Nappy, so they can't trade him Astro.
Sitting Bull will also not trade Nappy Astro.
Astro should get you tons of techs over 4 turns of trading it, and only the dangerous Shaka will go without.


Keep in mind that any AI with Astronomy can invade your island, but you need techs.

Egypt has the AP, so any war with him will have to be timed carefully.
He also can't stop the Nappy/Shaka war early since he hasn't met them.


This is what came to mind when I looked at your save.

 

[Ocre307]

Ack! One person says to join the war against Shaka and the other says to join against Nappy!

I certainly trust Napoleon a bit more than Shaka but I'll take a look at the situation again before making a proper decision.

Egypt has the AP, so any war with him will have to be timed carefully.

You think about so many things that I just wouldn't, like AP ending wars. It makes sense though!

Thanks all for looking at my reports/saves, I really appreciate it

 

[krikav]

Ack! One person says to join the war against Shaka and the other says to join against Nappy!

THe advice isn't that different really. The main point is not trying to please everyone but pick sides and stick with it.

But go with Kaitzillas advice here, he did open the save after all. I did not. I also like his line of reasoning.
Also, you already had diplo hit with Shaka, where you do not with Nappy.

 

[Ocre307]

Turnset T149-T154
T149: Open Borders with all parties
I change the 2 of my mature cities which aren't working on settlers to worker builds. I was kinda neglecting expansion last time. Maybe a hard push now is necessary?
I drew up a dotmap:

Spoiler :

There's 5 city sites to plant. Gotta get a move on! :whip:

Map generator did a funny thing in the north here. If only Moundville was one tile east!

Spoiler :

T150: Astronomy discovered!
krikav was right! We're making 89 commerce per turn off foreign trade
Research set to Meditation -> Priesthood, so I can trade for Monarchy and then Feudalism.

Lots of trading:
Traded Optics to Sitting Bull for Code of Laws and 40
Gems to Boudica for 12 gpt
Gems to Napoleon for Rice
Fish to Napoleon for Cows
Pigs to Sitting Bull for 8 gpt

T151: Meditation discovered.
T152: Priesthood discovered.
Next research is set on Construction, with eyes on trading for Engineering.
Next turn I'll start giving away Astronomy. (Would do it this turn but I can get Feudalism on the same turn as Monarchy.)

Traded Optics to Napoleon for Monarchy + 70.
Clams to Napoleon for Banana.
Fish to Ramesses for Corn.

Stting Bull converts to Taoism, aligning himself with my future buddy Napoleon

Portugal is looking super squeezed down here... I need to buy his map at some point. Wonder if this is his only city, or if his empire is disconnected?

Spoiler :

T153:
...
I was planning on capturing the barb city of Bantu this turn. Which would've been fine, except the archers all upgraded to longbows! Then my 9 xp CR2 sword died at 72% odds!!
I don't think it will be worth it to try and get another 10XP unit. Rip Heroic Epic plans

Astronomy to Sitting Bull for Civil Service and Feudalism! What a deal.

Spoiler :

What in the world is Napoleon doing??

Spoiler :

That's a lot of Caravels, all spaced apart too to look intimdating

Boudica is now plotting war.
I hope not against me!
Trading her Astronomy could be a game-ending mistake. Can she even plot against an overseas target with only Caravels? I am not familiar enough with the AI to know.
Going to end the turnset early (next turn) just because of this question. Maybe I'm getting too worried. But it's good to be safe!

Another question: I never know whether to build Wealth or buildings. Like, in this instance:

Spoiler :

Should I build Wealth? An observatory? A market? No idea My gut tells me Observatory. But maybe I'm wrong. I tend to prefer long term payout of things over short term gains, perhaps too much.

T154: Construction discovered.
The (filler) city of Chicago is founded.

Spoiler :

---
Well, now I'm not sure what to do. Guilds is very hard to come by right now. No one is willing to trade it, and it takes 8 turns to self-research.
I was hoping Napoleon would ask me to DoW Shaka, but he didn't
Should I do so this turn?

Here is the tech situation:

Spoiler :

I only played five turns. Trying to proceed with caution here, and make a good plan

End of turnset

 

[Ocre307]

My current overall plan:
Beeline to Steel after settling my continent.
Go beat up on Ramesses/Sitting Bull/Shaka.

But I will need to play the next turns with an amount of finesse I don't normally have to make it to that point quickly enough to make the difference!
I will probably not play too many turns in a turnset in the near future. Hopefully that's alright with you guys

 

[krikav]

Yikes!

I wrote this earlier:
"Make sure you get boudica to pleased and keep her there."
It's very easy if you have just met some AI to get them to pleased (unless religion plays a role), just gift them gold or some tech.

Boudica can't plot at pleased, so gifting her a tech would have saved you all the worry.
If she by chance happend to pick you, she will plot that war for a long time, and she will tech astronomy to reach you.

OTOH, it could also be that she and you didn't have any known AI in common..? In that case, you can't ask her to go to war with the third AI, and if you can't do that, you won't get the red fist warning.
So maybe she met some AI now and thats why you see the fist?


Trading away astronomy for feud+CS might have been too early. I like to break the monopoly of astro when I'm ready to trade with multiple AIs, getting as many of the big four techs as possible, CS+Guilds+Engineering+Philosophy. Ofcourse guilds isn't possible w/o feud.
But not rushing, and instead waiting for the right time to do multiple trades, is good practice.
If you trade with one AI first, and then wait 10 turns, you risk the AIs spreading around the tech you gave them, leaving you outside in the cold.

 

[Fippy]

Astro to Bully was fine imo, at 80% knowledge required for him to trade stuff (and he usually has no friendly towards him AIs) he won't trade it away anytime soon

Boudi situation could be problematic yup, if you still have a resource that she needs 2x make sure to keep that.
She might make a demand, which i think stops her plotting if accepted.

With cannons in mind you should usually build support units (like Maces or Galleons currently), not buildings.
They will be needed later. Markets are bad usually, Observatory only good in big cities full of cottages (so not here).
It's barracks & units for now, other than settlers. If Forges are already done.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Boudi situation could be problematic yup, if you still have a resource that she needs 2x make sure to keep that.
She might make a demand, which i think stops her plotting if accepted.

Right, Boudica can totally plot war before she has access to Astronomy.

She is Pleased with Nappy, Pleased with Egypt, and is the master of Joao.
She has not met the other AI yet.
There is a 100% chance she is plotting war on Ocre.


Hmm, she just started plotting and was met 5 turns ago.

If it were me I'd give her 10 a few times to get her up to Pleased.
Then I would beg her 1.
There is definitely a chance that will get her to stop plotting war.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...t-really-worth-it.658440/page-2#post-16041020