Denounciations

[Ambassador]

I must say - apart from being intrigued by the new systems and mechanisms the developers brought in which I really like - I'm a bit worried by keeping the denounciation system alive. It seemed a bit screwed up for me. Once in a denounciation cycle where every civ would continuously denounce you over and over again - just because everyone else was doing it - it was hard to get out of this cycle. And sometimes the denouncing only began because of some crazy civ leader not because of something you did.

What do you think?

 

[Aristos]

I must say - apart from being intrigued by the new systems and mechanisms the developers brought in which I really like - I'm a bit worried by keeping the denounciation system alive. It seemed a bit screwed up for me. Once in a denounciation cycle where every civ would continuously denounce you over and over again - just because everyone else was doing it - it was hard to get out of this cycle. And sometimes the denouncing only began because of some crazy civ leader not because of something you did.

What do you think?

I have never EVER had such cycle, UNLESS I did something really crazy (like attacking a DoF partner).

 

[AriochIV]

I'm hoping that there's more to the Civ VI casus belli system than just denunciations, because that was a really awkward system in Civ V.

So I have to denounce someone before I attack them? So what?

 

[stealth_nsk]

What I got about denunciations from the new info is this. If you denounce a civilization, after X turns you could start justified war against them (justified wars are those with much less penalties). On the other hand:
- Denunciation warns the enemy beforehand and give them time to prepare for war.
- Denunciation gives the enemy a right to declare justified war against you right away.

It sounds like quite reasonable mechanic, but aside from some immersion it's not that big achievement. What is good - the justified war mechanic is more universal and there are other reasons for starting it, like attack on your ally.

 

[Aristos]

What I got about denunciations from the new info is this. If you denounce a civilization, after X turns you could start justified war against them (justified wars are those with much less penalties). On the other hand:
- Denunciation warns the enemy beforehand and give them time to prepare for war.
- Denunciation gives the enemy a right to declare justified war against you right away.

It sounds like quite reasonable mechanic, but aside from some immersion it's not that big achievement. What is good - the justified war mechanic is more universal and there are other reasons for starting it, like attack on your ally.

If what you say is indeed correct, then the whole "justified war" announcement is more a PR stunt than a true innovation. People that care are falling into the hype in this case because we have been "spoiled" by the PDX Casus Belli (oh, and quil18, please man, it's pronounced "belly" as in your belly, not bellai) that is paramount among competitors and works well.

But according to your description, this is not Casus Belli. I wish they would add a system like that, even a simple one, to the civ series. In example:

1. AI civ steals territory with a citadel --> Casus Belli for x turns. If you DoW before x turns, y% less warmonger penalty for everything.
2. AI civ spy caught in your city --> idem
etc etc

 

[stealth_nsk]

If what you say is indeed correct, then the whole "justified war" announcement is more a PR stunt than a true innovation. People that care are falling into the hype in this case because we have been "spoiled" by the PDX Casus Belli (oh, and quil18, please man, it's pronounced "belly" as in your belly, not bellai) that is paramount among competitors and works well.

But according to your description, this is not Casus Belli. I wish they would add a system like that, even a simple one, to the civ series. In example:

1. AI civ steals territory with a citadel --> Casus Belli for x turns. If you DoW before x turns, y% less warmonger penalty for everything.
2. AI civ spy caught in your city --> idem
etc etc

1. As I said, denunciations aren't only way to get justified war. There are other reasons for justified war, so it could be named casus belli.

2. I don't see a reason in that much reasons for war. In this case you'll be able to nearly always declare a justified war, which makes no sense. IMHO, the system should fuel diplomacy with risk/reward system. If such common act as sending spy cause risk for you to be the target of justified war, the mechanic looses it's meaning. If for this you need something big, like attacking other civ's city-state ally, this will work nicely.

 

[Aristos]

1. As I said, denunciations aren't only way to get justified war. There are other reasons for justified war, so it could be named casus belli.

How do you know? Link or it does not exist.

 

[stealth_nsk]

How do you know? Link or it does not exist.

Watch Quill18 video.

 

[dexters]

I have never EVER had such cycle, UNLESS I did something really crazy (like attacking a DoF partner).

Ditto. denunciations as a diplo system will likely feed into justified war mechanic as well

 

[Aristos]

Watch Quill18 video.

I did. I don't remember him saying there were "more" justifications for War.

 

[dexters]

I did. I don't remember him saying there were "more" justifications for War.

He implied there could more. He only played 60 turns and only got to see TR denounce Cleo. He went warmonger in one of his 2 playthroughs and experienced the justified vs. Surprise war but it's early war by all accounts. Mid and late game wars will undoubtedly have many other factors and constraints