Deutsch 101

[schlaufuchs]

Any mistakes are due to impatience - the forum ate take #1.

Ich habe vergessen, dass dieser "Thread" existiert!

Thread is fine, lose the quotes. If you're a pretentious nerd you can actually say Faden, but i'd advise against it.​

Ja, ich habe nicht gewusst, ob Thread eine bestimmte Deutsche Wort wäre, so hatte ich Anführungszeiten weglassen.

 

[metatron]

Kleines Forenvokabular:
Geistig normale Menschen sagen/schreiben "der Thread" (pl. Threads) und der Post* (pl. Posts).
Nerds (m.;pl Nerds) sagen tatsächlich "Faden" und "Beitrag", wobei Beitrag schon etwas "normaler" ist als Faden. Im Gegensatz dazu, ist es zum Beispiel schon recht verbreitet, Rechner (m.; pl. Rechner) statt Computer zu sagen.
Ein Forum ist immer noch ein Forum (pl. Foren) - mit einer Startseite (f.) und Unterforen. Aus einem Forum kann man gebannt werden (vrgl. verbannt; und: der Bann pl. Banne (pl. wird nicht genutzt)), vorausgesetzt ein Mod / Moderator meint, das sei eine gute Idee (pl. Mods / Moderatoren (f. Moderatorin, "Mod" wird in der Regel nicht als weibliche Form benutzt, aber theoretisch wäre es "die Mod")).

Wir sollten dringend mehr auf Deutsch schreiben, statt euch ausschließlich auf Englisch zu antworten.
Dazu müsste ich mich allerdings erstmal locker machen, und nicht solches Krampfdeutsch schreiben. Fürchterlich.

*Wie ich vor zwanzig Seiten schon schrieb: Eigentlich ist es das Post.
Aber ich kämpfe da gegen Windmühlen...

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Ich schreibe ja lieber Beitrag statt Post, aber wer allen Ernstes thread mit Faden 'übersetzt' ist geisteskrank.

Wie ich vor zwanzig Seiten schon schrieb: Eigentlich ist es das Post.

Der Post kling irgendwie richtiger. Wahrscheinlich weil es der Beitrag ist.

 

[Aroddo]

Auch das Internetz wird genesen am deutschen Wesen.

 

[Phrossack]

Kann jemand hier verstehen, was dieser Rauber hier sagt? Die letzte Wörter klingen wie ,,Dali Dali".


Link to video.

Was sagt diese Polizisten auf Platt (nicht übersetzt)? Und wie kann ich Platt lernen? Ich mag diesen lustige Dialekt!

 

[Samez]

Dali Dali ist umgangssprachlich für "schnell, schnell!"
Der Rest bedeutet so viel wie: Die Bank ist umstellt, er soll seine Waffe auf den Boden legen und die Hände über den Kopf heben sonst erschießt er ihn. Zwischendurch bezeichnet er ihn noch als Döspaddel was einem Trottel oder Idioten entspricht.

 

[Grisu]

Ich schreibe ja lieber Beitrag statt Post, aber wer allen Ernstes thread mit Faden 'übersetzt' ist geisteskrank.

Ich habe schon öfters gesehen, dass "Thread" mit "Strang" übersetzt wurde

Spoiler :

I've often seen "Thread" to be translated as "Strang"

 

[Aroddo]

Let's try ....

Transcript: "Det Bank is umstellt! Du kommst hier necht ruut! Kene Fiesematenten!"
Translation: "Die Bank ist umstell! Du kommst hier nicht raus! Mach keinen Unsinn!"

Transcript: "Den ????, den Ballermann dohl und der Hand ofm Boben! Damitte datt wisst"
Translation: "?????????, die Waffe runter und die Hand auf den Boden! Damit du Bescheid weißt"
... not sure about the hand to the floor part and the last sentence ... doesn't make sense.

Transcript: "Soll ich det no eibläuen, du Dösbaddel? Ballermann runna, Hand hoch, anders pusten wir di wech!
Translation: "Soll ich dir das nochmal erklären , du Idiot? Waffe runter, Hände hoch, sonst erschießen wir dich!"

I feel like that poor Robber.

 

[Camikaze]

So yesterday I caught a train from Munich to Ljubljana, and between Rosenheim and Salzburg my friend and I were approached by a plain clothes Bavarian police officer, identifying himself simply with a badge. He demanded our passports, and given this is normal enough, we complied. But then he asked if I could empty my pockets, and of course my natural response to that was to ask why. He replied that he didn't need a reason, and not knowing anything about my rights in Germany, I decided not to refuse. After I emptied my pockets he rifled through my wallet, and then went through my bag, though he didn't ask permission for either of these two things. So a few questions:

• Am I obliged to identify myself to a police officer?
• Was the police officer correct in saying he didn't need a reason to search me or my belongings?
• I gather some of this may be related to having been in a 'border zone' at the time. It seemed in the situation that there's nothing I could've done to stop any of it; I could've asked for his details, I suppose, but that wouldn't stand in the way of a search. Do I actually have any rights in a 'border zone'?

 

[Agent327]

• Am I obliged to identify myself to a police officer?

• 
  
  Most countries have an identification obligation (you required to have an ID on your person at all times)
  
  

  [*]Was the police officer correct in saying he didn't need a reason to search me or my belongings?

  
  I would think not: was there a reasonable cause to suspect you of a crime? On first look, it appears as a violation of privacy.
  
  

  [*]I gather some of this may be related to having been in a 'border zone' at the time. It seemed in the situation that there's nothing I could've done to stop any of it; I could've asked for his details, I suppose, but that wouldn't stand in the way of a search. Do I actually have any rights in a 'border zone'?

I have no clue. Is border zone even a legal concept? I've never heard of it. But then, we're speaking about Bavaria here.

 

[metatron]

So a few questions:

• Am I obliged to identify myself to a police officer?
• Was the police officer correct in saying he didn't need a reason to search me or my belongings?
• I gather some of this may be related to having been in a 'border zone' at the time. It seemed in the situation that there's nothing I could've done to stop any of it; I could've asked for his details, I suppose, but that wouldn't stand in the way of a search. Do I actually have any rights in a 'border zone'?

Yes, yes, and technically yes but in reality mostly no.

1. Yes. You can be asked by police to identify yourself anywhere any time without cause.
You don't have to have any ID on you (althought that would be sensible and prudent), but as a citizen you are required to own such a national ID.
Typically virtually everybody (except women with ridiculously small purses) has their ID on them most of the time.

2. Yes. You can be searched without cause virtually anywhere.

3. It used to make a difference. Outside a "border zone" they'd technically need cause. But in the 90s most German states have declared their entire territory a "border zone".

Generally we don't mind this. Having the police search people they encounter in public space for contraband seems reasonable to most people. The concept of "cause" seems unproductive. Police will just make up some such cause and proceed to search you. It's just a waste of everybody's time.
Generally police will rarely make use of this privilege without being pretty sure that it'll be a hit. Actually being on the border would be the exception: There they somewhat randomly search people (young males mostly) in a somewhat drag-net-ish fashion without actually suspecting every individual client.

This is in somewhat stark contrast to other "German" notions about privacy: It's arguably harder than in the Anglosphere to search someone's home; police typically don't arrest most criminals longer than needed to secure identification and evidence; and of course we all royally wigged out over google street view (let alone unthinkabilities such as police posting mugshots on the internet).

The lived reality of all this differs of course quite a bit regionally, with Bavaria being the Texas/Queensland of Germany that it is coming down on the authoritarian (and stupid) side of things as it does in regard to virtually everything else.

I have no clue. Is border zone even a legal concept?

See above: Yes it is/was. It's called Zollgrenzbezirk.
By now it's obviously a somewhat irrelevant concept.

 

[Agent327]

2. Yes. You can be searched without cause virtually anywhere.

In Germany, you mean.

Yes it is/was. It's called Zollgrenzbezirk.
By now it's obviously a somewhat irrelevant concept.

Which was my point. Is it now a legal concept?

 

[metatron]

In Germany, you mean.

I believe Camikaze and i have an implied understanding that this is not the case in Australia.

 

[Samez]

It should also be mentioned that Bavarian police is known to be more "stringent".
There were/are plenty of police violence cases, wrong accusations (Mollath) an there is a new one coming up.They might have forced a mentally disabled man to innocently commit child murder (Fall Peggy)....
Also the concept of "Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht" wasn't applied to police officers in the same way as to normal citizens in the past.
Always keep in mind that the cops are your "Freund und Helfer"...
In general the boarders to the east are under intense control due to the huge amounts of Meth being brought in from eastern Europe. It might also apply for the German Austrian border.

 

[metatron]

In general the boarders to the east are under intense control due to the huge amounts of Meth being brought in from eastern Europe. It might also apply for the German Austrian border.

Yeah, that...
... and Bavaria and Austria being derpy Balkan nations who have troll just for the heck of it.

 

[Wastl]

2. Yes. You can be searched without cause virtually anywhere.

That's actually not quite true. The police usally needs probable cause to be allowed to search someone or his belongings.

The reasons that allow a search are as follows:
1) if the person has done something that allows for him to be detained
2) if there is probable cause for the person carrying items that can be confiscated
3) if a person is in a place that is commonly used to plan or commit crimes, used by criminals to hide from the police, used by illegals or used for prostitution (see also: danger zones)
4) if a person is near (or in) public transportation, a public office or similar especially endangered place and there is probably cause that a crime is to be committed in said place
5) if there is an international search warrant for the person

In addition to that, the police can search a person for any kind of weapons while checking his ID, provided there is a risk of bodily harm or their or someone elses life might be at risk.

So a policeman can't just search anyone he wants. It's just that in some cases the policemen act like they can and most people aren't really a fan of pissing off a policeman, if they aren't absolutely sure about their rights or whether there are special circumstances about the place they are in.

 

[metatron]

That's actually not quite true. The police usally needs probable cause to be allowed to search someone or his belongings.

The reasons that allow a search are as follows:
1) if the person has done something that allows for him to be detained
2) if there is probable cause for the person carrying items that can be confiscated
3) if a person is in a place that is commonly used to plan or commit crimes, used by criminals to hide from the police, used by illegals or used for prostitution (see also: danger zones)
4) if a person is near (or in) public transportation, a public office or similar especially endangered place and there is probably cause that a crime is to be committed in said place
5) if there is an international search warrant for the person

In addition to that, the police can search a person for any kind of weapons while checking his ID, provided there is a risk of bodily harm or their or someone elses life might be at risk.

So a policeman can't just search anyone he wants. It's just that in some cases the policemen act like they can and most people aren't really a fan of pissing off a policeman, if they aren't absolutely sure about their rights or whether there are special circumstances about the place they are in.

So you googled (and copy pasted) §29 Polizeigesetz?

§10 Zollverwaltungsgesetz can by now be applied virtually anywhere and anytime, essentially without cause (beyond you being around that is).

 

[Terxpahseyton]

§10 Zollverwaltungsgesetz can by now be applied virtually anywhere and anytime, essentially without cause (beyond you being around that is).

So it was on me to google it this time and I don't see how that works (and I also don't see what the hell "Gestellung" is supposed to mean)

 

[ori]

Police and customs officials (Zollverwaltung) are not the same people though, apart from the question whether the assertion that it essentially applies everywhere is correct or not. Further outside the border area (which I suspect was the case here anyways travelling between Munich and Salzburg) they'd still have to state a reason for their request as that same article you cite requires reason to suspect that contraband is being carried on the person and identify themselves as customs officials. And again this does not have anything to do with police being allowed to search stuff everywhere, and yes the distinction between those two is important for the sheer numbers - you are much much more likely to randomly bump into police than into customs outside the border areas as the latter simply make up a much smaller cohort and tend to congregate around actual borders (which also includes ports and airports.

 

[metatron]

Police and customs officials (Zollverwaltung) are not the same people though,

Well, you can consent to the search of wait for customs.

Further outside the border area (which I suspect was the case here anyways travelling between Munich and Salzburg)

Go get yourself a map.