Did Raistlin Cast “Summon Jerks”?

[Zardnaar]

My dude, you said you're not that into Warhammer. Maybe you don't have your finger on the beating pulse of the general fan community

Anyhow, stuff is always changed because of "out of universe reasons". New editions are released due to a need to update the rules, and / or a need to sell more / better / newer stuff. It's a business first, on top of a fictional universe. I don't give two hoots that you - someone who isn't even apparently a fan - doesn't care for female Space Marines. That doesn't matter to me. What's more interesting is apparently how much you know about one specific thing in Warhammer 40k despite not being that into it.

EDIT

I missed your complaints about WotC "going woke". Negative stats for racial typing is outmoded design, and new editions of DnD are stronger for not having it. Assuming a classic stat-rolling experience, you're already at the mercy of the dice for the rolls you get. Having a -2 penalty on top of that for one or more stats just really pidgeonholes what you can do with the character.

Also, some races were genuinely just horribly balanced. 3.5ed, you'd never pick an orc unless you were going Barb, basically. Not without heading into extreme munchkin territory. Even half-orcs were better for the Fighter class.

I've got to say, props for providing the thread with some examples of making discussion around a game political, even if it wasn't the kind of politics the OP may have been referencing!

I'm not that worried about negative racial modifiers going away. An elf getting +2 dex though is also a no no.

If female space marines sell them more product by all means go ahead do it.

In D&D they're also complain ing about Orcs and the evil humanoids being all mean an unfair though.

Looks at Warhammer Orks and essentially race wars.

 

[BvBPL]

Too bad this thread wasn't posted in A&E where we have threads that talk about SF/F books, including Dragonlance (would you believe that the admin in charge of that forum is a Dragonlance fan?).

You're more than welcome, of course, to discuss it elsewhere. My frustration was principally born from the response on a social medium site, not so much about the literature itself.

Not into Warhammer at all, but I've heard that much of it was plagiarized from Dune.

It certainly wasn't plagiarized, but it did take some inspiration from Herbert. A vast empire of humanity, massive spaceships that travel the void, and quasi-mystical/spiritual/religious groups tied intimately to governance all come up in 40k. But so does a caricature of Baroness Thatcher as an orc.

 

[BvBPL]

But Larry Elmore was a talented artist, and I based one of my convention costumes on one of his paintings. I was considerably more covered up, though. But I incorporated some of Elmore's accessorizing ideas into my costume, thanks to my dad collecting magpie feathers for me and such.

I don't know if you paint, but Dark Sword has some fly minis based on Elmore's work: https://www.darkswordminiatures.com/product-category/miniature-lines/elmore-masterworks/

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't know if you paint, but Dark Sword has some fly minis based on Elmore's work: https://www.darkswordminiatures.com/product-category/miniature-lines/elmore-masterworks/

I don't paint. I tried it but don't have the patience.

 

[NovaKart]

Did anyone see my Raistlin Michael Jackson comparison in AE?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Did anyone see my Raistlin Michael Jackson comparison in AE?

That's one reason I wish this whole thread had been started in A&E. There's already plenty of Dragonlance discussion down there.

Yes, I saw it and participated, if memory serves.

 

[Takhisis]

We should have this thread moved to A&E, honestly.

/subscription post

 

[RobAnybody]

I don't think this thread is about the specific Art or Entertainment per se (I always wanted to use that idiom!) which is what it seems people are getting distracted by. It's about interjecting "modern values" into established fantasy literature races, like Dragonlance, so IMO, fwiw, it belongs here.

Like if the Powers That Be are (I have no idea) changing Gully Dwarves to be "not all stupid" just because of Woke that's a valid point of discussion, or Orcs shouldn't be Evil, or Drow shouldn't be matriarchal, or "what about the *good* Green Dragons & the pacifist Beholders?". No real opinion one way or the other I guess, but just about where the discussion belongs, which seems more appropriate here.

All of which I'd be interested in reading about.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Bupu was already "not stupid"... back in the '80s. And I agree that this belongs in A&E, since we're talking about literary characters (yes, RPG stories are real literature).

 

[RobAnybody]

I mean, Bupu was a bit "slow". All Gully Dwarves were. That was kinda the point. Raistlin liked her regardless, while the other characters mostly disparaged her & looked down on her whole race, which in the story was used as a way to humanize Raistlin. To get the reader to empathize with him & not just view him as a villain. So if Bupu had been just a random "normal" person, the literary device would've failed & served no purpose, IMO. That's my take on analyzing her "role" in the story, I guess.

But, regardless of all that, I feel like this thread is about interjecting modern sensibilities into literature, not *about* analyzing the actual literature, Like, ferinstance, could Bupu even *be* a character in modern literature? Could those books have even been written now? It's a valid question I think.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I mean, Bupu was a bit "slow". All Gully Dwarves were. That was kinda the point. Raistlin liked her regardless, while the other characters mostly disparaged her & looked down on her whole race, which in the story was used as a way to humanize Raistlin. To get the reader to empathize with him & not just view him as a villain. So if Bupu had been just a random "normal" person, the literary device would've failed & served no purpose, IMO. That's my take on analyzing her "role" in the story, I guess.

But, regardless of all that, I feel like this thread is about interjecting modern sensibilities into literature, not *about* analyzing the actual literature, Like, ferinstance, could Bupu even *be* a character in modern literature? Could those books have even been written now? It's a valid question I think.

Since Dragonlance material is still being published and there is Dragonlance fanfiction on various sites, the short answer is 'yes.'

I don't see why discussing modern sensibilities in literature isn't a valid reason to put this thread in A&E along with the rest of the Dragonlance discussion. Is there anyone present here who is not already a reader or player of Dragonlance?