Diplomatic Relations

[Whomp]

There's been some requests on what diplo is like in a PBEM. Here are a few requirements first. If you want to participate in diplo you will need "instant messenger". The dialogue is much faster than PM or email. It would be nice if we had people on both continents with access so there's always an open line of communication.

http://messenger.msn.com/Xp/Default.aspx

Here's what I've learned and read about human vs human diplo...

The best arrangement is generally first contact. There is an enormous advantage to team's that have long-term agreements of sharing. This means the agreement lasts till those two civs are the only two standing or, for instance, this may come to a climax on who builds Hoover's.
These could be the things the two teams would agree to.
1. Techs
2. excess luxs
3. excess resources
4. MPP
5 Coordinated attacks
6. The agreement could only terminate if one team notifies the other, say 10-20 turns in advance.
7. Shared contacts and maps
8. Shared acquired research from other teams.
9. Feign deceit. If these teams meet others then they should keep the other teams in the dark regarding this agreement. Something like so and so has been heavy handed etc.
10. Agreememts on land rights

MIA and Doughnuts would be the preferred teams for this type of agreement. Doughnuts are a team to be reckoned without question.

A second would be TNT. They have alienated themselves in this game already. A deal with them may extend only till both teams have become a republic. My fear with extending a long-term agreement with TNT is they will unquestionably be everyone's #1 target so we would want to delicately shorten the length of any agreement.

There is almost no case where an early war will benefit anyone. If you get gassed early I see no winner in that situation. However, if there may be situations where forceful diplomacy is required. IE they have nothing to offer and how would they step up for mutual benefit. This may require giving two techs for one to even things out.

There's always the potential for deceit and even the best partner can potentially backtstab. So leaving empty cities next to partners is always a bad plan. My hope is this team will honor all agreements and never condone such behavior.

There are endless numbers of ways to structure a deal and all decisions will be decided as a group when it comes time to formalize an agreement. Another benefit of instant messenger is the whole conversation can be posted in a thread.

Discuss....

 

[soul_warrior]

i have MSN online at home and work.
adress is troykil <at> yahoo <dadot> com

well i agree with most of your point whomp, but...
this is Real-Politik in the flesh.
we should become macheavellian in the extreme.

trust NOONE.
do it onto them before they do it onto us.
always assume they are double dealing, so even with best buds, we should prebuild Hoover's for a steal. as i believe they would be doing the same.
ok - you now get my basic philosophy.

now counter pointing it.
we should get one strong ally and embrace them closely (as in "keep your friends close, your enemies closer" type arrangment)
the doughnuts would indeed be my choice, but allying with the ranter, while holding secret relations with the others would indeed be better.
just think of a coordinated 3 pronged attack

more thoughts evolving as i type....

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that a lot of the alliance dealing will depend on who is on our continent. I'd rather not make long term deals with our neighbor, more like a short term anti-attack tech trading agreement.

With this philosophy TNT will be on our hit-list no matter where they are. Also we could get an ally on the other continent helping each other out via tech & resource trading while trying to remain rulers on our continent. This will probably be my last post in this thread since I'm no good with words. (But I seem to vomit them all over the place anyway )

 

[Whomp]

I agree we should not trust anyone 100%.

There was a great game at CDZ (Fab four?) where two players(banzai and grs) had an long term beneficial agreement and both went on the attack vs. a stronger single player (romeo) who was destroyed but in the process. But then Banzai backstabbed grs by walking into 10 empty cities on his way to his capital. Banzai was buliding barricades on his borders so Banzai felt grs should've known.

Barbu could probably tell some stories too.

 

[-Tomasz-]

I'm in belgium, on the old continent. I've got msn meesenger, and im online quite often.

Address: naglikt@hotmail.com

I'm for a very close alliance with our neighbour
As I stated in another thread.
I support, however, the idea: if you want peace, prepare for war.
So we should pretend that we're weak,
But always have a counter-attack force ready to break.

Right now it's quite hard to talk about plans since we dont really have a military, nor the borders aren't stable yet.
We'll talk about Real-Politik in 100turns time I suppose. Can't wait!


What do you guys think about secret negotiations,
So called under the table, which were so popular during history.
This could lead to unofficial treaties, or plans
Which could come out crtical in some time.


Well, looking on all this, we will become indeed macheavellians of civ 3


cheers

Tomasz

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

Actually, I think there's definitely an argument for "helping out" TNT. They've probably already realized they're at the top of all the other teams' hitlists. If we offer them protection (or at least say we offer them protection), they will probably be willing to offer us lots of goodies in return.

 

[Whomp]

Actually, I think there's definitely an argument for "helping out" TNT. They've probably already realized they're at the top of all the other teams' hitlists. If we offer them protection (or at least say we offer them protection), they will probably be willing to offer us lots of goodies in return.

So true young Pliskenator of the Maine Idiot Civants.
I'd say that falls in the category of forceful diplomacy.

 

[soul_warrior]

Actually, I think there's definitely an argument for "helping out" TNT. They've probably already realized they're at the top of all the other teams' hitlists. If we offer them protection (or at least say we offer them protection), they will probably be willing to offer us lots of goodies in return.

you'll earn your academy stripes yet...

another thought.
if we do meet them on our landmass, how about we plant a sleeper in metropolis?
a volunteer could become a so called "dissatisfied" member feeding them some false info (some being true, so he gains some credit), getting them to believe that since we know they're on the hitlists, and us with the lowest score (eg - weakest?) might become buddies.
they'll expect a backstab sooner or later, but if we time it right....

 

[Daghdha]

Not sure what you propose SW but sleepers are

0.4.2 - Intentional Espionage

Description: Any out-of-game espionage in any form is strictly prohibited.

Definition: Trying to hack the secure team forum(s), continuously logging team chat channels, inserting moles in an opponent's team, hacking screenshots or save game upload location, or any other action considered espionage as determined by the game staff

Verdict: Doing any of the above as determined by the game staff is a violation of this rule.

Punishment Level: Red (Ejection)

 

[soul_warrior]

i dont really know what im suggesting, more like one of us getting on a friendlier basis with those guys on the forum.
it might help out in a tight spot.

certainly nothing illegal
see, i've got 27 arrests and NO convictions. which proves im innocent

 

[Daghdha]

TNT and D'nuts are on same continent
How sweet if they could start whacking each other and lag in research. A dream scenario is a peaceful cont., us and MIA, helping each other out and advancing in tech, and a war zone continent pillaged and tormented by bad blood. Maybe we should suggest Greece to support one side each and thereby help out in thrashing the land? If that be the case we would agree only to aid with troops not specifically GS's. If we can keep them from fighting until we're out of desp that would be good.

Edit: After reading the rule set I understood it as every kind of deal that doesn't forego the in-game techs reqired is allowed. That would rule out changing maps, signing MA's/MPP's. Otherwise it's all GO. I would be interested in asking Greeks if they're at all interested in signing a peace and research deal. Whaddya say fellow Celts?

 

[soul_warrior]

they are on the same continent? groovy.
are we SURE they are not on ours?

otherwise a peace research deal seems very lucrative.

when did we get to know they are on that same continent? or did i again miss that first contact moment.

 

[Daghdha]

Nikodemus just made contact

 

[gmaharriet]

Do we know for certain that all 4 teams weren't placed on the same continent? Wouldn't it be a joke on us if that were the case?!?!?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

From RikMeleet's post here, the map is continents. However, the rest is customized.

 

[gmaharriet]

So theoretically it's possible that we're all on one continent and the other is just left to the barbs.

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

Well, I believe one thing agreed on by all teams was that we wanted two continents with two civs on each one. I suppose Rik could have decided to trick us, but I doubt it.

I like the sound of the peace and research deal. We won't be able to do much to them until the MA anyway with their Hoplites. I just hope this doesn't make our Gallics worthless.

 

[Kickbooti]

If I understand rightly we met the Greeks down south. Peace is the only thing that makes sense; that jungle and the fact that we only have three cities makes war an impractical. Remember, GS costs twice as much as their hopolites - we had better try to play nice for now.

Should we just send a generic message? Something along the lines of "Hail Greek neigbors." Or should we send something vaguely threatening like "Pleased to meet you. We hope you enjoy your stay as guests on our continent."

While tounge is half-way in cheeck, perhaps just a general message is best - it puts the ball in their court, when we meet if THEY are the ones making the proposal we can buy time and consider. Who knows, maybe we can get them to show a few cards before we decide on a bet...

 

[Whomp]

I would like to send a message to them that we need to schedule a time for IM discussion. Does this work for everyone? Then we can take the next step.

 

[soul_warrior]

how about we send them something along these lines?

just a friendly from the freedom kissers. hope youre enjoying the southern island resorts this beutiful summer. would very much like to meet you, but im a bit shy. how about we chat a bit before we get the flowing. we ladies cant really handle our liquer, so we dont want any accidents happening do we?

it will confuse them a bit, while telling them we want to talk.
getting a good giggle out of them is also, i believe, a good idea.